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Unread 06/12/2017, 01:44 AM   #1
Kaiser699a
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Low dKH, low Mag and lowish Calcium levels

I could do with a bit of help to get my dKH, Mag and Calcium up to suitable levels. I tested yesterday and got dKH = 5.5, Mag = 970 and Calc = 375. My tank is 450 litre with 5 small fish. I have loads of soft and LPS frags, all very small. Everything is doing ok in the tank but after 6 months I was expecting a good bit more growth from the frags. I change about 15% water every 2 weeks and I am running Rowaphos in a reactor and a tiny fuge with cheato, just for some pod generation really. Currently I have no algae problems and phosphate reading 0, nitrate reading 0, sg = 1.024 and pH hovering around 8.0 to 8.2 morning to evening. I run Evergrow 5080 LEDs at around 45% max at midday. The little fuge is lit 24 hours and the cheato grows like crazy. I know my dKH should be at least 8, Mag should be ideally 1400 and Calc should be 400 - 450. I use Reef Crystals for water change make up and currently do not dose anything. Any advice how I can or should increase these parameters to better levels? Thanks.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 01:47 AM   #2
hegeh
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Test your newly mixed salt water. If you are saying water change every 2 weeks, it should replenish used mg kh and cal.

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Unread 06/12/2017, 01:57 AM   #3
Kaiser699a
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Thanks hegeh.
I am conscious I need to check my make up water next. I will do that later after work. Let's suppose for now that the commercial salt mix I use is making water with mg, dKH and Ca levels it should. Then what will I do?


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Unread 06/12/2017, 03:21 AM   #4
hegeh
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If the make up water parameter is on par, then its time to start dosing, but its very unlikely that the amount of corals you having consume that fast.

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Unread 06/12/2017, 03:42 AM   #5
bertoni
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I agree that testing some freshly-mixed saltwater is a good place to start. The tank might need daily dosing. Coralline algae can consume 2-3 dKH per day on its own, in my experience, so I'd be cautious about using the just the coral population to estimate usage. A second opinion on the test kits might be useful, too, at some point.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 03:52 AM   #6
Kaiser699a
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Currently I have no coralline algae. My test kit is confirmed by a hanna meter for dKH.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 03:57 AM   #7
Kaiser699a
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Would dosing Kalkwasser be the obvious thing to start doing?


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Unread 06/12/2017, 04:30 AM   #8
bertoni
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Dosing Kalk wouldn't add any magnesium. I'd just use baking soda for alkalinity and calcium chloride for the calcium levels. Kalkwasser is a very dilute supplement, and often isn't enough even to maintain the levels in a tank.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 04:36 AM   #9
Kaiser699a
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Baking Soda I can manage. Where would I get Calcium Chloride and what would improve Mg?
I presume there is some limit to dosing rates of these things and techniques for dosing? I hope not to have to buy dosing pumps...


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Unread 06/12/2017, 04:51 AM   #10
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Calcium chloride is available in bulk from various vendors like Bulk Reef Supply. There are lots of aquarium products based on it, as well. Kent Turbo Calcium is fine.

For magnesium, I'd look into some bulk magnesium chloride and get epsom salts from the drug store. If the magnesium actually is that low, the tank will need a lot of supplement to get it back to 1275 ppm or so, the canonical ocean average.

I'd see what's up with the salt mix that you're using before doing anything. Also, the SG device might be wrong. That might explain some of the results, too. Raising the SG slowly to 1.026 should help a bit, and would bring the tank close to the canonical ocean average of 1.0264. Various kinds of testing problems and salt mix problems seem common enough to warrant some caution.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 05:07 AM   #11
Kaiser699a
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Thanks bertoni. I will definitely check my water make up first. Just wanted some other ideas to read up on as well.
What would the best way to check my refractometer is working ok? Now that you mention it I did have some wild results with it in the past when checking make up water. I recalibrated it at the time with a 30ppm calibration solution that came with a salinity probe I now use. I double check sg with the refractometer every couple of weeks as well though. The probe is just for a quick daily sanity check.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 12:18 PM   #12
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Salinity calibration solutions often won't work properly for a refractometer. This article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

You could buy the PinPoint 53 mS salinity calibration solution. It's made from artificial saltwater and thus usually is accurate. We've seen some reports of possible bad batches, though.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 01:35 PM   #13
Kaiser699a
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Thanks for replies so far. Tested my make up water now. It seems my salt mix isn't great. At 1.026 or 35ppm it gives Ca=400, Mg=1050 and dKH=7.25. I have a new bucket of Reef Flowers for my next batch so hopefully it will be better.
I am pretty sure my refractometer is right because I checked with 35ppm solution and it was dead on. I then mixed a batch of new salt water, exactly 10litres with 350g of salt. This should produce 1.026 salinity and again my refractometer was dead on.
I am raising the tank from 1.024 to 1.026 over the next day or two. Also adding some Reef Flowers KH, Ca and Mg balling solutions to raise all 3 a bit. Hopefully I will see some coralline and coral growth with those changes.
Any other long term advice is welcome.


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Unread 06/12/2017, 01:58 PM   #14
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Okay, that magnesium level in the freshly-mixed saltwater is an issue, if the measurement is correct. I might try to get a local fish store to measure the level for me, in case of kit error. Reef Crystals should be much higher than that. You could try mixing up the dry salt, in case the product settled badly in shipment. That helps in some cases.


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Unread 06/13/2017, 01:54 AM   #15
Kaiser699a
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I agree. The bucket states Ca of 420, Mg of 1250 and dKH of 7.5. I would be inclined to think my kits are off but both Ca and Mg seems very unlucky. Tonight I will make 10 litres with my new bucket of Reef Flowers and see how it compares to what the manufacturer states. The make up salt I used yesterday was the very last drop of salt from the Reef Crystals bucket. Maybe that had something to do with it. If Reef Flowers make up water is reading low for Ca and Mg I will get it checked at the weekend at the LFS. For what it's worth I am inclined to believe my results since I have no noticable coral growth and no coralline algae...
Is salt mix performing that poorly justification for returning it to the shop in the future? Is it common for mixes to under perform? I thought Reef Crystals was a top notch product. Live and learn I suppose.


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Unread 06/13/2017, 02:10 AM   #16
Kaiser699a
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I should just clarify that I made a mistake with my salt manufacturer. It is in fqact Red Sea Salt (not the Coral Pro version). This one:
http://www.swelluk.com/red-sea-salt/...FQZLDQod3wEJhw

Not sure if that makes a difference to any advice given so far.


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Unread 06/13/2017, 04:15 PM   #17
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Red Sea should be higher than that in magnesium. I'm not sure what happened, but it'll be interesting to see the measurements for your new salt.


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Unread 06/13/2017, 04:36 PM   #18
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If you intend to have a tank with coral and coralline algae, you better get used to the idea of regular dosing alk/cal/mg ......water changes alone will not cut it....


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Unread 06/14/2017, 10:24 AM   #19
tmz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser699a View Post
I tested yesterday

dKH = 5.5

Low /suggest at least 7'prefer mid 8's

Mag = 970

low need 1300/ 1400 works well

Calc = 375.

ok a bit of a margin ,say 400 or even 450 would be ok too.


I change about 15% water every 2 weeks

Use a salt higher in alk and mag

I am running Rowaphos in a reactor : phosphate reading 0,

low; corals need some for growth, say 0.05ppm or so; stop or reduce the gfo

nitrate reading 0,

low ; suggest 0.2ppm to 1ppm

sg = 1.024


raising it to 1.026 will also raise the other elements

pH hovering around 8.0 to 8.2 morning

fine



Any advice how I can or should increase these parameters to better levels?


Salt mix with higher levels; increase sg.

Dose a mix of magnesium chloride 7 parts and magnesium sulfate 1part see recipe articles. Raise it 50ppm per day.

Dose baked(CO3 carbonate )or unbaked baking sodaHCo3) to raise alk . see calculator and Randy Farley's recipe articles ; raise it 1dk per day or less.


After you establish raised levels you can devise a dosing scheme for either carbonate dosing and calcium chloride dosing and /or kalk/ limewater ( calcium hydroxide dosing).



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Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
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Unread 06/14/2017, 05:18 PM   #20
hegeh
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Red sea blue tub should have the parameter on par vs the pro salt. Did you tried to shake the salt? Some said that some of the minerals is at the base of the salt tub due to the journey from the factory to your house.

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Unread 06/15/2017, 08:34 AM   #21
Kaiser699a
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Ok I just tested my new Reeflowers make up water. sg=1.026, Ca=395ppm, ALK=7.5, Mg=1187. I am not impressed... but readings are similar to Red Sea. I think I need better test kits. Any suggestions of good brands? I am afraid to dose because I'm not sure I have the correct values yet...


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Unread 06/15/2017, 09:30 AM   #22
tmz
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I use Salifert for Calcium and Magnesium as well as hanah checker for alk.


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Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
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Unread 06/15/2017, 10:40 AM   #23
Kaiser699a
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I use Hanna for ALK so that's good but my readings are all around 7.5 for new mix water.
I have seen Dali feet recommended before so I'll have a look. Might get an LFS check at the weekend too.


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Unread 06/15/2017, 10:41 AM   #24
Kaiser699a
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Salifert��


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Unread 06/16/2017, 09:35 AM   #25
hegeh
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Anyway how is ur corals doing? Are they healthy and have pe?

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