Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[nasoisking]

good information to hear....I was just thinking of buying 2 new LED fixtures instead of buying new t5 bulbs.....guess ill stick with the t5's!

[rupatel]

I think my diy luxeon leds look good and my corals seem to be growing good. I just compared my electric bill from last year when I was running 2 mh 250 watts each with 2 t5s and was 100 bucks low and was able to sale my chiller. So I love my leds

[Mmiller40gt]

Originally Posted by rupatel

I think my diy luxeon leds look good and my corals seem to be growing good. I just compared my electric bill from last year when I was running 2 mh 250 watts each with 2 t5s and was 100 bucks low and was able to sale my chiller. So I love my leds

You live close to me so I know your not pay more than 10 cents a kwh. Say 800 watts and a 500 watt chiller running non stop 12 hours a day. The lights were costing you at mostt 47$ a month and I'm sure you chiller ran much less than that. Don't forget last summer was much much hotter than this year. Also consider you LEDs are still pulling 200 watts or so. I don't see any way for your electric to drop more than 30$ a month. Heck I pay 7.8 cents and my halides and chiller don't cost me near that. My entire tank costs about 30$ a month to run.

[James77]

Originally Posted by Jim.mer

Why did most people go with LED? Mostly because of power usage and lack of bulb replacement.

But both of those are trivial amount for most people. The typical 4 foot tank has 2 halides, bulbs run $40-$80 each for pretty much every single hobby bulb out there. Electric costs me at most 10 bucks more to run 2-250 watt halides on magnetic HQI ballasts. Heat is a total non issue for me. So my monthly davings are about $15-$20 were I to switch to LEDs. But that is also assuming zero LED failures( on fixtures that are obsolet- have fun with that one) or driver failures over the course of its life.

For those truly saving 100 or more a month and solving endless heat problems, they are a great choice. But ot get LEDs for saving a few bucks a month in this already excessive hobby is ridiculous. I've thrown away more PVC fittings in this hobby than I would save in one year of LEDs

[oscarb]

so i guess i will stick with my t5 and upgrade my light bulbs what would u suggest running 8 t5s 54w ho 2atinic blues 1 royal blue 2 6500k 1 10000k 1 sun want to stock clams and hard corals can grow softies and poly, mushrooms any suggestions

[Mmiller40gt]

Originally Posted by James77

But both of those are trivial amount for most people. The typical 4 foot tank has 2 halides, bulbs run $40-$80 each for pretty much every single hobby bulb out there. Electric costs me at most 10 bucks more to run 2-250 watt halides on magnetic HQI ballasts. Heat is a total non issue for me. So my monthly davings are about $15-$20 were I to switch to LEDs. But that is also assuming zero LED failures( on fixtures that are obsolet- have fun with that one) or driver failures over the course of its life.

For those truly saving 100 or more a month and solving endless heat problems, they are a great choice. But ot get LEDs for saving a few bucks a month in this already excessive hobby is ridiculous. I've thrown away more PVC fittings in this hobby than I would save in one year of LEDs

+1. Everyone is claiming these huge savings and I just can't get the math to add up. I been doing cost management and software development for 12 years and the math still eludes me. Who has kept a led fixture for over 2 years? People are upgrading to the latest and greatest every year. still searching to replace something that already works great.

I spend more in salt than any predicted savings. This is not a cheap hobby. If 20$ a month makes or breaks you you might consider goldfish.

[gskidmor]

I would question the number of people constantly upgrading to the latest and greatest. Before I moved from Cleveland to Cali, I had the same tank with the same pump with the same skimmer with the same ballast and reflector and same heater for 10 years. I did upgrade my powerheads as newer stuff came out, but before the ecotechs, I had the same MJ-1200 for 6 years.

I know my brothers did the same. It wasn't that common for most in my C-SEA to constantly upgrade (powerheads aside).

Now, if I can get my Radion to work I will keep it for much longer than 2 years...but that is looking like a very big IF lately and I too am considering switching back to MH (though not the same one I had for 10 years - I did sell that one

[Mmiller40gt]

I was referring to led users upgrading. Throat MH users have Ben using the same tech for years. Because it WORKS

[gskidmor]

makes sense.

I'm just hoping I'm doing something wrong - I would hate to think I spent that much on something that doesn't work ;-)

[Mmiller40gt]

Originally Posted by gskidmor

makes sense.

I'm just hoping I'm doing something wrong - I would hate to think I spent that much on something that doesn't work ;-)

After seeing the cool you tube vids I have to admit I bid on some on eBay. Kinda glad I did not win them. It does fpgive me hope thst eventually they will come out with one that WILL replace 250hqi. The options are very cool and adding in they would work with my vortechs is really neat.

[NoobtoSalt]

I'm on the opposite side of many comments here i guess. I love my leds. Have the best sps growth I've ever had. I've ran halides and t5 over the years and nothing compares to the quality as the leds. Interesting read here though. I've been running them now for about seven months

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[gskidmor]

NoobtoSalt - I'm hoping to join you in that pleasure with LEDs. I have seen more than a few threads that have displayed great growth with LED...I'm still on the learning curve I guess. I like the plug and play ease of the MH!

[mussel and hate]

Originally Posted by Mmiller40gt

+1. Everyone is claiming these huge savings and I just can't get the math to add up. I been doing cost management and software development for 12 years and the math still eludes me. Who has kept a led fixture for over 2 years? People are upgrading to the latest and greatest every year. still searching to replace something that already works great.

I spend more in salt than any predicted savings. This is not a cheap hobby. If 20$ a month makes or breaks you you might consider goldfish.

I hear how expensive this hobby is here all the time and yet in my 20+ years of reefkeeping I've spent less than a grand. I'm still using the MH fixture I bought used and not working from the LFS(easily repaired) it is running the same Iwasaki 14k SE 175 that it has for the last 50 months or so now. The oceanic skimmer I bought used and cracked from the LFS in the early 90's to replace my Sanders airstone skimmer is still working perfectly powered by a 15 year old Iwaki that I bought, you guessed it... used and not working.

This hobby is only as expensive as you make it. I'm building a DIY LED fixture right now. I doubt I'll cast it aside in the next couple years. The money saved on electricity is real and undeniable. You big spenders might not see it as important but some of us live in the real world.

FWIW I still plan on burning my 4+yr old MH but for a reduced duration.

[moncapitane]

Now this is a curious way to look at it. I would wonder for the people who do not like their LEDs, what fixtures they are going with? I have head most of the LED fixtures that are less expensive are the knockoffs which to me would indicate they are probably not as good as the more expensive ones so if the people who are not liking their LED, are just using these knockoffs. Also, I would be curious to know the light colors of LEDs that people are using when they don't like LEDs. I have seen mostly that only with cool white and royal blue are not getting the job down but the additional of other frequencies of light help prompt the same growth one would get with the MH or t5. Not trying to so anyone is wrong/right but just curious because it seems there isn't enough information on people switching back to MH from LED. Also, this is going to be another one of those things that some people like and others don't.

[KCombs]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

I hear how expensive this hobby is here all the time and yet in my 20+ years of reefkeeping I've spent less than a grand. I'm still using the MH fixture I bought used and not working from the LFS(easily repaired) it is running the same Iwasaki 14k SE 175 that it has for the last 50 months or so now. The oceanic skimmer I bought used and cracked from the LFS in the early 90's to replace my Sanders airstone skimmer is still working perfectly powered by a 15 year old Iwaki that I bought, you guessed it... used and not working.

This hobby is only as expensive as you make it. I'm building a DIY LED fixture right now. I doubt I'll cast it aside in the next couple years. The money saved on electricity is real and undeniable. You big spenders might not see it as important but some of us live in the real world.

FWIW I still plan on burning my 4+yr old MH but for a reduced duration.

^this

I would question the number of people constantly upgrading to the latest and greatest

^and this


some of us in the 20+ club think back on all the money we've wasted on gimmicks and poorly designed products...

For all the unchanged, reliable Ebo Jaegers and Aquaclear filters out there, there are dozens of failures

my guess is most of the disenfranchised ex-LED'ers here probably acknowledge that LED's are comming, and comming on strong...

but perhaps just not yet...

[dunk373]

Originally Posted by moncapitane

Now this is a curious way to look at it. I would wonder for the people who do not like their LEDs, what fixtures they are going with? I have head most of the LED fixtures that are less expensive are the knockoffs which to me would indicate they are probably not as good as the more expensive ones so if the people who are not liking their LED, are just using these knockoffs. Also, I would be curious to know the light colors of LEDs that people are using when they don't like LEDs. I have seen mostly that only with cool white and royal blue are not getting the job down but the additional of other frequencies of light help prompt the same growth one would get with the MH or t5. Not trying to so anyone is wrong/right but just curious because it seems there isn't enough information on people switching back to MH from LED. Also, this is going to be another one of those things that some people like and others don't.

i agree. Need more info what setup you had what setup you changed to. Just think about what leds were giving you blue and white two small spectrums. They are catching on adding different colors I think a successful led can be made I really think it can color corals even better than the mh and t5 but we have to find what the combo is. I like the look of led and am hoping it gives a better look the savings is a bonus.

[Goldcoastreefs]

Guys I have the the ecotech radion on my tank currently I also have used the sols and DIY with different combinations. Although the corals still grow and in some case grow pretty fast there are some corals that colors morph and don't look as colorful as they once did. Of course with the blue and royal blue on anything looks good but again nothing looks as good as my radiums. I have been using LEDs for a while now and it is somthing you might not notice right away or at all but certain colors of sps corals will change colors while others won't. I am just thinking about going back to what is tried and true. But am torn between a couple more radiums or a power module.

[advancebc29]

Originally Posted by moncapitane

Now this is a curious way to look at it. I would wonder for the people who do not like their LEDs, what fixtures they are going with? I have head most of the LED fixtures that are less expensive are the knockoffs which to me would indicate they are probably not as good as the more expensive ones so if the people who are not liking their LED, are just using these knockoffs. Also, I would be curious to know the light colors of LEDs that people are using when they don't like LEDs. I have seen mostly that only with cool white and royal blue are not getting the job down but the additional of other frequencies of light help prompt the same growth one would get with the MH or t5. Not trying to so anyone is wrong/right but just curious because it seems there isn't enough information on people switching back to MH from LED. Also, this is going to be another one of those things that some people like and others don't.

Originally Posted by dunk373

i agree. Need more info what setup you had what setup you changed to. Just think about what leds were giving you blue and white two small spectrums. They are catching on adding different colors I think a successful led can be made I really think it can color corals even better than the mh and t5 but we have to find what the combo is. I like the look of led and am hoping it gives a better look the savings is a bonus.

+1 to both.
I have been running LEDs for almost 2 years now and have had great results in both growth and color. My LEDs are not the standard B/W setup. I was one of the first to include 420nm LEDs and quickly followed up with Red, Green/Cyan all before it was the kewl thing to do. I strongly feel that 420nm is key. Look at T5 bulbs and how much 420nm is in them.
I did months of research looking at what I considered to be successful tanks and looked at the spectral output of the lights they were using. I feel that I came very close to matching them.
I feel the number one reason for peoples disappoint with switching to LEDS is that they are greatly changing the spectrum of lights in their tanks and it really p1sses off the corals.

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by Mmiller40gt

+1. Everyone is claiming these huge savings and I just can't get the math to add up. I been doing cost management and software development for 12 years and the math still eludes me. Who has kept a led fixture for over 2 years? People are upgrading to the latest and greatest every year. still searching to replace something that already works great.

I spend more in salt than any predicted savings. This is not a cheap hobby. If 20$ a month makes or breaks you you might consider goldfish.

I'm not going to knock MH/T5, as they undeniably work, and did work great for 3+ years for me. On the other hand, if you can't figure out the savings over time of leds, I would question your cost management abilities. Just because you have cheaper electricity and no heat issues, doesn't mean everyone else does. My cost of electricity is nearly double yours here in NY.

This is just a quick cost analysis of potential savings in my setup.

380w MH/T5 vs 120-180w LED. 200w+ saved.
$300-500+ chiller no longer needed
~650w chiller electric usage 650w saved ~$10month
8,000btu AC, ~800w electric usage (AC needs to turn on more) ~$10month

The money saved on a chiller could be used for a LED fixture alone. When you figure in the wattage of the lights, chiller, and AC in the room, you have a potential max of 1650w running at any given time that is no longer needed. Very forgiving electric costs at that point reach over $300 a year for me.

Right off the bat, I save $800. If I use my 120 gallon setup, add 200+w more per each 24" of length for the extra bulbs.

My DIY LED is 180w per 24" length, and ran $350. That's even overkill, and can be adjusted to a $250 or less per 24" of tank length. Assuming a custom ratio chinese box can provide similar results over time, that cost is $160 per fixture, using three for a 72" 120 gallon tank.

At minimum, assuming the leds can provide 75% of the growth and equal or better coloring with a full spectrum led setup, the $480 used to light my 120 gallon tank, can be made back within 2 years of bulb changes alone, had I used 3x250MH +T5. That doesn't even take in the electricity savings of $250+ a year.

By year three, I would have saved $1000+ over lighting my tank with leds compared to MH/T5. If growth performance matches in that time, you basically just "lit" $1,000 on fire staying with MH. $1,000 is a lot to many reefers.

Goldfish? I could take a vacation and scuba in a real reef for that kind of money.

[JBarnes]

After six months of AI Sols and very little growth and loss of colors I switched back to T5's. LED's are the strategic direction for the industry no doubt about that. But, additional experimentation and design changes are necessary before we get to end all solution. I couldn't agree more about the savings in electricity and bulb replacement but at the end of the day you want your tank to look great regardless of the cost. Jerry.

[advancebc29]

Originally Posted by JBarnes

After six months of AI Sols and very little growth and loss of colors I switched back to T5's. LED's are the strategic direction for the industry no doubt about that. But, additional experimentation and design changes are necessary before we get to end all solution. I couldn't agree more about the savings in electricity and bulb replacement but at the end of the day you want your tank to look great regardless of the cost. Jerry.

JBarnes, What T5 bulbs where you running before you switched? This is what I was talking about in my earlier post. Sounds like you drastically changed the light spectrum in your tank and thus had bad results.

You could get the same exact bad results with changing your T5 bulbs to a very different spectrum or by removing large chunks of sprectrum which is I am guessing what happened when you went to LEDs.

[Tmoriarty]

I have found the radiums to be no more impressive then my cheap artemis 20k bulbs. The colors of the coral are the same the visible spectrum is the same, growth appears to be similar if not the same.

As for LED's I have been contemplating going to LED's for a while but havn't made the jump yet. I am about to build a fixture for my seahorse build where I can test some growth on easier to keep corals and see if the spectrum is something I like or not.

Tyler

[bayoupr]

I have been running SOL blue's for 18 months and have no problems with growth of my corals or colors. I switched from my MH's to Led's because of the heat factor. I ran fans over my sump which then became a huge evaporation factor. Sure I could run a chiller but then figure out what the monthly electric bill would be then. My total system volumn is 225g.

[power boat jim]

I noted after swithching from MH to LEDs a drop off in growth in some corals also. After about 8 months it dawned on me to look at a thermometer. The tank lost 8 deg of heat in the switch. I boosted the temp up a bit and now most corals are back to having to be fragged every couple of months. I also believe it takes nearly a year for all the coral to acclimate to the change from MH to LED and lets face it there are a few corals that dont like the change at all. After over 2 years with with LEDs the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for me. I wont be switching back.

As far the as cost savings go, its one of scale and time. The more MH you have to begin with the more LEDs will save you in cooling cost in your house and tank as well as in bulb replacement.

[BigAl2007]

I switched to LED over 3 years ago and the only "problem" I had was not realizing the need for acclimation to LED.

I have LED on both of my tanks now and wouldn't go back to T5 or MH ( I was a big fan of T5s) simply because for my tanks and personal likes it's LED. I get good growth throughout and the colors are as good as or better than previous. I changed from a MH/T5 fixture on one tank and from PC on another.