Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[Marchingbandjs]

Wow... just wow

[ritter6788]

Originally Posted by mkbtank

Peter - I am happy to see that the foot of the table is away from the tank! Especially since you are a 9 ball player.......

That makes me nervous just looking at it.

[nineball]

Here are some shots of the water change........It took most of the day and a lot of effort!!!


I have a bunch of questions.........................

First, I think this is sea weed.........true????

Is it a good thing ???????






Here are a number of individual shots of the two week old rock. It does NOT smell bad at all. Does it appear to be what we should expect??

















Any other comments or questions??


Peter

[nineball]

The temp for the post water change environment 79 deg F.

The salinity is 1.0245.

The rock was put back in the tanks in reverse order to ensure it was moved around. I had four kiddie pools that I used to hold the rock while I cleaned out the storage tanks. I needed about 20% of the old water to make sufficient NSW volume for both tanks.

This was on the bottom................







My helpers................






Kiddie pools...........







Each individual rock was shaken vigorously ..............







We cleaned the tanks..........







and finally put the car back into the garage...............






That was for the benefit of any night owls........


Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by golf nut

how did you break the 3 out, off the 15?

Golf nut........good catch, we hadn't racked the balls yet........

Peter

[PauChi]

Originally Posted by nineball

That was for the benefit of any night owls........


Peter

Thanks Peter .... a polished and fully "cured" Bentley for sure !!

Paul

[nineball]

Originally Posted by mkbtank

Peter - I am happy to see that the foot of the table is away from the tank! Especially since you are a 9 ball player.......

Originally Posted by ritter6788

That makes me nervous just looking at it.

You guys are just sissy's......The acrylic is 1.5 in......any shot off the table will be a deflection in any event. Your anxiety will leave you short on frags much to my advantage!!!!!!!

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by chingchai

Peter. That is the good picture.
I wish I can have a chance to play pool with you and Cliff.
All the best.

If I can manage it Chingchai, you will enjoy a game with Cliff. He doesn't know a lot about fish but he more than makes up for it with his knowledge of good wine...........

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by klipprand

Well I tried to post here once before and will try again...Just wanted to say like many others, I have greatly enjoyed reading so much of your adventure and feedback from the community. It's nice to see you doing such a great job on such a grand scale. Looking forward to seeing more.

Did you make a decision on different intakes for the closed loops? Thanks

klipprand, thanks for your enthusiasm and support. I did make some changes on the closed loops and I will be detailing those changes when we get to the chapter on the fish room.

Welcome to the group.

Peter

[Antonais1391]

Rocks looking great! are you doing live sand, or reg? or a mix? also whats your job title?? seems like all the Canadians i know are do fairly well for themselfs lol. Ever visit bamff?

[Hal]

Originally Posted by nineball

First, I think this is sea weed.........true????

Is it a good thing ???????




Peter

It's difficult to tell based on the picture since I don't know how accurate the color is of your photo (color balance of the camera and all), but that looks like red turf algae. It has the correct shape for it. Nasty stuff. It will take over your tank quickly.

Remove as much as you can by hand. I'd even take a blowtorch to any stump left attached to the rock, or as a minimum tweeze everything visible. (I had a bad experience with the stuff once.) Loose pieces floating around the tank will attach and start growing, so be careful when you prune.

Mexican Turbo snails are one of the few creatures reputed to eat red turf algae.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it's something else.

[Mahu]

Peter,
I have been following the progress for a few weeks and I have to say again as so many others have done in the past posts. WOW! You are going to have an amazing setup when you get ?Done? is a Reef tank ever "Done" :-)

Your live rock looks really good to me and I see what looks like 3 different types of algae. Picture 1 shows one type and picture 3 and 6 show two other types. The post before shows picture 1 and said it looked like "Red Turf Algae". I don't think this is Red Turf and will most likely be very benificial to the tank when it is setup, if the algae survives. I have the same stuff growing in my reef tank and it grows slowly and stays put in one spot like a little tree. I am sure you will have some form of Tang in this system and as soon as it finds this little treat it will be gone anyway. This is just what I have seen in my own 5 yr old 300 Gallon Reef tank and never had a problem with it in my system. Picture 3 shows an algae that looks a bit more like a turf algae and should be looked into further. The algae in picture 6 looks more like a form of Dictyota, mostly found in green coloration but there are several varities of this algae.
Link to a pic of Dictyota....
http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/...-acutiloba.jpg

I would definately wait before pulling anything plant like off the rocks because most of the forms of life you will find on your rock will be benificial to the tank if it survives the swarms of Tangs.

Hope this helps, keep up the good work. I hope it all turns out just like it looks in your head.

Cheers,
Mike in FL. Panhandle


Link to a picture from RC thread showing Red Turf Algae...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-0...s/image027.jpg

Wow my first post in 6 years!! Go Peter!

[mr.wilson]

Good to hear about the flow volume improvements. Here are a few points to torment you about mechanical filtration and UV sterilization, as I see you have expanded on them.

First of all, I'm in the minority as a proponent of mechanical filtration. Up until the early 90's it was a primary function of marine aquaria filtration systems. Then along came a few authors like Julian Sprung with the great idea that much of the junk we were collecting was in fact food for corals in our "nutrient starved tanks". As the hobby moved to more challenging hard corals (LPS & SPS) the demand for nutrient-poor water was increased, but for some reason the mechanical filter never came back into fashion. It just isn't a sexy high tech device you can show off to your friends. The value of detritus as a viable food source for coral was a little weak anyway, so I'm all for the removal of it before it enters the nitrogen and phosphate cycles (nutrient cycle).

The advent of wave and surge devices coupled with engineered flow dynamics at greater volumes, meant that detritus stayed suspended for longer in modern systems. This resulted in a "snow globe effect", whereby detritus floated through the system almost indefinitely. Sure the protein skimmer captured some of it but in the absence of a filter sock, foam pad, polyester floss, pleated cartridge filter, or settling container you are relying on corals to consume detritus, when they are not detrivores.

Now more than ever we need to use mechanical filtration. It does not rob corals of nutrients and it does not make the water "too clean". Mechanical filters increase water clarity, removing the collective yellowing effect of pigmented organics. This increase in clarity improves light penetration and photosynthesis. Pleated cartridge filters such as the ones Peter is using are typically rated at 25 microns, but with clogging they can remove particles down to one micron. This means that certain parasites like ich will be physically removed.

There is such thing as too much mechanical filtration however. You have to leave some "food" for corals. For this reason I would consider running a filter cartridge in only one of your two mechanical filters at a time. Every week you can swap canisters and cartridges. You do have a big tank, so two filters is probably right-sized for your application. Alternatively, you can use the cartridge unit as a media filter and fill it with carbon, phosphate remover, or carbon source pellets etc. Some pleated cartridges have a hollow core with a perforated nylon tube in the center for holding chemical filter media. Another caveat of mechanical filtration as it is only as effective as the user. Once the detritus is trapped in the cartridge it should be removed within a week, preferably sooner. If you don't remove the cartridge for cleaning the detritus breaks down and dissolves and enters the nitrogen cycle as bacteria starts to consume it. Make sure the canister is easy to reach with shut-off/bypass valves and clearance to exchange cartridges. Order a few extra cartridges so you can periodically bleach them and keep clean ones in the on-deck circle for cleaning time.

As for the UV sterilizers, they will run best on a bypass so the flow rate is slow. You get a higher kill ratio (zap count) if the water is exposed to the bulb for longer periods of time (dwell/contact time). The larger the organism, the longer it needs to be exposed to the UV. Bacteria is easy to zap, while larger parasites need more dwell time. This article sums up Pedro Escobal's formula for UV sterilizer throughput. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...ers/Page1.html
Escobal literally wrote the book on filtration devices and system engineering http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aquatic-Syst.../dp/1888381051
The book is out of print, but you can find it used online. The book gets very technical, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to follow it. The author however is. As a matter of fact he wrote the book on it as well. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Astr...tt_at_ep_dpt_1
Two of them actually. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Orbi...tt_at_ep_dpt_2
He never did get around to finishing that book about brain surgery

I hope I haven't deprived you of any sleep over this Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by Hal

It's difficult to tell based on the picture since I don't know how accurate the color is of your photo (color balance of the camera and all), but that looks like red turf algae. It has the correct shape for it. Nasty stuff. It will take over your tank quickly.

Remove as much as you can by hand. I'd even take a blowtorch to any stump left attached to the rock, or as a minimum tweeze everything visible. (I had a bad experience with the stuff once.) Loose pieces floating around the tank will attach and start growing, so be careful when you prune.

Mexican Turbo snails are one of the few creatures reputed to eat red turf algae.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it's something else.

The colour balance is accurate. Camera is the Canon 5D II with an L lens. So it isn't distorting what you are seeing. If its red turf algae and thats not a good thing then I just won't put it in the tank. There is NOT a lot of it as it appears to be on very few rocks. I will definately keep an eye on it and ensure it does'nt get into the display..........

Here's another rock with the same thing but as I noted there are only a few.



Thanks very much for the feedback.

Peter

[Bigjoe2531]

Originally Posted by Chago09

Thanks, I try to help where I can
hahahahahaha


So peter have you talked about any lists yet? Obvioulsy your going to keep every coral on the planet in there but what sort of fish are you looking at? If I may suggest something it would be a large school of something. I think schools look amazing, no matter what the specie. Most of us don't have tanks large enough, but a huge school of a schooling specie moving around your tank would look spectacular. I have seen as simple as a school of chromis take over the tank and no one even pays attention to the corals.

I second the idea....I'd love to see a large school of something special in that tank....I think it'd be a wonderful compliment to a large reef ecosystem like yours....

[mr.wilson]

What does the winner get? Gracilaria? http://tnenvis.nic.in/Algal_gal/GRAC...20TEXTORII.jpg

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

What does the winner get? Gracilaria? http://tnenvis.nic.in/Algal_gal/GRAC...20TEXTORII.jpg

you get the priviedge of eating a salad made of it

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

Good to hear about the flow volume improvements. Here are a few points to torment you about mechanical filtration and UV sterilization, as I see you have expanded on them.

First of all, I'm in the minority as a proponent of mechanical filtration. Up until the early 90's it was a primary function of marine aquaria filtration systems. Then along came a few authors like Julian Sprung with the great idea that much of the junk we were collecting was in fact food for corals in our "nutrient starved tanks". As the hobby moved to more challenging hard corals (LPS & SPS) the demand for nutrient-poor water was increased, but for some reason the mechanical filter never came back into fashion. It just isn't a sexy high tech device you can show off to your friends. The value of detritus as a viable food source for coral was a little weak anyway, so I'm all for the removal of it before it enters the nitrogen and phosphate cycles (nutrient cycle).

The advent of wave and surge devices coupled with engineered flow dynamics at greater volumes, meant that detritus stayed suspended for longer in modern systems. This resulted in a "snow globe effect", whereby detritus floated through the system almost indefinitely. Sure the protein skimmer captured some of it but in the absence of a filter sock, foam pad, polyester floss, pleated cartridge filter, or settling container you are relying on corals to consume detritus, when they are not detrivores.

Now more than ever we need to use mechanical filtration. It does not rob corals of nutrients and it does not make the water "too clean". Mechanical filters increase water clarity, removing the collective yellowing effect of pigmented organics. This increase in clarity improves light penetration and photosynthesis. Pleated cartridge filters such as the ones Peter is using are typically rated at 25 microns, but with clogging they can remove particles down to one micron. This means that certain parasites like ich will be physically removed.

There is such thing as too much mechanical filtration however. You have to leave some "food" for corals. For this reason I would consider running a filter cartridge in only one of your two mechanical filters at a time. Every week you can swap canisters and cartridges. You do have a big tank, so two filters is probably right-sized for your application. Alternatively, you can use the cartridge unit as a media filter and fill it with carbon, phosphate remover, or carbon source pellets etc. Some pleated cartridges have a hollow core with a perforated nylon tube in the center for holding chemical filter media. Another caveat of mechanical filtration as it is only as effective as the user. Once the detritus is trapped in the cartridge it should be removed within a week, preferably sooner. If you don't remove the cartridge for cleaning the detritus breaks down and dissolves and enters the nitrogen cycle as bacteria starts to consume it. Make sure the canister is easy to reach with shut-off/bypass valves and clearance to exchange cartridges. Order a few extra cartridges so you can periodically bleach them and keep clean ones in the on-deck circle for cleaning time.

As for the UV sterilizers, they will run best on a bypass so the flow rate is slow. You get a higher kill ratio (zap count) if the water is exposed to the bulb for longer periods of time (dwell/contact time). The larger the organism, the longer it needs to be exposed to the UV. Bacteria is easy to zap, while larger parasites need more dwell time. This article sums up Pedro Escobal's formula for UV sterilizer throughput. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...ers/Page1.html
Escobal literally wrote the book on filtration devices and system engineering http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aquatic-Syst.../dp/1888381051
The book is out of print, but you can find it used online. The book gets very technical, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to follow it. The author however is. As a matter of fact he wrote the book on it as well. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Astr...tt_at_ep_dpt_1
Two of them actually. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Orbi...tt_at_ep_dpt_2
He never did get around to finishing that book about brain surgery

I hope I haven't deprived you of any sleep over this Peter

Good post Mr. W but would you not accomplish the same mechanical filtration of a cannister filter but running a micron filter sock or two on the drain lines which can be easily changed out every second day or so.
This is assuming that you are running carbon in some sort of secondary reactor and phosban(which I understand can't be effectively run in a cannister filter)

[nineball]

Originally Posted by Mahu

Peter,
I have been following the progress for a few weeks and I have to say again as so many others have done in the past posts. WOW! You are going to have an amazing setup when you get ?Done? is a Reef tank ever "Done" :-)

Your live rock looks really good to me and I see what looks like 3 different types of algae. Picture 1 shows one type and picture 3 and 6 show two other types. The post before shows picture 1 and said it looked like "Red Turf Algae". I don't think this is Red Turf and will most likely be very benificial to the tank when it is setup, if the algae survives. I have the same stuff growing in my reef tank and it grows slowly and stays put in one spot like a little tree. I am sure you will have some form of Tang in this system and as soon as it finds this little treat it will be gone anyway. This is just what I have seen in my own 5 yr old 300 Gallon Reef tank and never had a problem with it in my system. Picture 3 shows an algae that looks a bit more like a turf algae and should be looked into further. The algae in picture 6 looks more like a form of Dictyota, mostly found in green coloration but there are several varities of this algae.
Link to a pic of Dictyota....
http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/...-acutiloba.jpg

I would definately wait before pulling anything plant like off the rocks because most of the forms of life you will find on your rock will be benificial to the tank if it survives the swarms of Tangs.

Hope this helps, keep up the good work. I hope it all turns out just like it looks in your head.

Cheers,
Mike in FL. Panhandle


Link to a picture from RC thread showing Red Turf Algae...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-0...s/image027.jpg

Wow my first post in 6 years!! Go Peter!

Mike, first post in six years???? I and I am sure my collegues on this thread are honoured with your 'surfacing'. This is very helpful.

I believe you are right, I checked the links you provided and they appear very consistant with your observations. The picture #3 as you pointed out is different than the others. The sample that I have on my rock is not as developed as the turf algae in the link so it is more difficult to be certain. The picture I have is considerably higher resolution but if I post that here its just a fraction smaller than the state of Texas and would probably sink the entire forum.

[nineball]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

Good to hear about the flow volume improvements. Here are a few points to torment you about mechanical filtration and UV sterilization, as I see you have expanded on them.

First of all, I'm in the minority as a proponent of mechanical filtration. Up until the early 90's it was a primary function of marine aquaria filtration systems. Then along came a few authors like Julian Sprung with the great idea that much of the junk we were collecting was in fact food for corals in our "nutrient starved tanks". As the hobby moved to more challenging hard corals (LPS & SPS) the demand for nutrient-poor water was increased, but for some reason the mechanical filter never came back into fashion. It just isn't a sexy high tech device you can show off to your friends. The value of detritus as a viable food source for coral was a little weak anyway, so I'm all for the removal of it before it enters the nitrogen and phosphate cycles (nutrient cycle).

The advent of wave and surge devices coupled with engineered flow dynamics at greater volumes, meant that detritus stayed suspended for longer in modern systems. This resulted in a "snow globe effect", whereby detritus floated through the system almost indefinitely. Sure the protein skimmer captured some of it but in the absence of a filter sock, foam pad, polyester floss, pleated cartridge filter, or settling container you are relying on corals to consume detritus, when they are not detrivores.

Now more than ever we need to use mechanical filtration. It does not rob corals of nutrients and it does not make the water "too clean". Mechanical filters increase water clarity, removing the collective yellowing effect of pigmented organics. This increase in clarity improves light penetration and photosynthesis. Pleated cartridge filters such as the ones Peter is using are typically rated at 25 microns, but with clogging they can remove particles down to one micron. This means that certain parasites like ich will be physically removed.

There is such thing as too much mechanical filtration however. You have to leave some "food" for corals. For this reason I would consider running a filter cartridge in only one of your two mechanical filters at a time. Every week you can swap canisters and cartridges. You do have a big tank, so two filters is probably right-sized for your application. Alternatively, you can use the cartridge unit as a media filter and fill it with carbon, phosphate remover, or carbon source pellets etc. Some pleated cartridges have a hollow core with a perforated nylon tube in the center for holding chemical filter media. Another caveat of mechanical filtration as it is only as effective as the user. Once the detritus is trapped in the cartridge it should be removed within a week, preferably sooner. If you don't remove the cartridge for cleaning the detritus breaks down and dissolves and enters the nitrogen cycle as bacteria starts to consume it. Make sure the canister is easy to reach with shut-off/bypass valves and clearance to exchange cartridges. Order a few extra cartridges so you can periodically bleach them and keep clean ones in the on-deck circle for cleaning time.

As for the UV sterilizers, they will run best on a bypass so the flow rate is slow. You get a higher kill ratio (zap count) if the water is exposed to the bulb for longer periods of time (dwell/contact time). The larger the organism, the longer it needs to be exposed to the UV. Bacteria is easy to zap, while larger parasites need more dwell time. This article sums up Pedro Escobal's formula for UV sterilizer throughput. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...ers/Page1.html
Escobal literally wrote the book on filtration devices and system engineering http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aquatic-Syst.../dp/1888381051
The book is out of print, but you can find it used online. The book gets very technical, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to follow it. The author however is. As a matter of fact he wrote the book on it as well. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Astr...tt_at_ep_dpt_1
Two of them actually. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Orbi...tt_at_ep_dpt_2
He never did get around to finishing that book about brain surgery

I hope I haven't deprived you of any sleep over this Peter

Actually I think I am beginning to hallucinate Shawn. This is good stuff. I think Chingchai would agree with most, if not all, of your bias on this subject. I am drawn to your strategy not because of anything academic, as my knowledge is still measured in nano grams, but because of clear and tangible results as evidenced in Chingchai's tank. His water clarity and quality is exceptional. He uses 10 micron filter socks and swears by them. If he reads this he can correct the data for me.

I will take your advice on the accessibility of the filter canisters for maintenance. I also agree with the importance of frequent monitoring of the efficiency to ensure the material is removed.....another 'to do' on my SOP.

As far as using the canisters with various alternative materials I will probably wait until I have a baseline of experience and data.

more on that subject I'm sure..............

Thank you again sir for your assist........There are those on this thread now who also appreciate your comments and have significantly more knowledge and experience than I. Your presence on this thread is one of its greater assets.

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

Just make sure your closed loop has room for one of these. http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/video/tsunami.wmv

For some reason, this page will not display for me.........

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by Marchingbandjs

Wow... just wow

I think that just about says it for all of us.............

Thank you

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by Antonais1391

Rocks looking great! are you doing live sand, or reg? or a mix? also whats your job title?? seems like all the Canadians i know are do fairly well for themselfs lol. Ever visit bamff?

Antonais, here is the sand. I'm planning a shallow bed for the start.









We don't use titles in Canada. There really is only one person wearing many hats!!!! Everyone else left after the first snowfall!!!! They are living in Florida!

I haven't been to Bamff recently but I have been to Banff which I suspect is close by

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by Mahu

Peter,
I have been following the progress for a few weeks and I have to say again as so many others have done in the past posts. WOW! You are going to have an amazing setup when you get ?Done? is a Reef tank ever "Done" :-)

Your live rock looks really good to me and I see what looks like 3 different types of algae. Picture 1 shows one type and picture 3 and 6 show two other types. The post before shows picture 1 and said it looked like "Red Turf Algae". I don't think this is Red Turf and will most likely be very benificial to the tank when it is setup, if the algae survives. I have the same stuff growing in my reef tank and it grows slowly and stays put in one spot like a little tree. I am sure you will have some form of Tang in this system and as soon as it finds this little treat it will be gone anyway. This is just what I have seen in my own 5 yr old 300 Gallon Reef tank and never had a problem with it in my system. Picture 3 shows an algae that looks a bit more like a turf algae and should be looked into further. The algae in picture 6 looks more like a form of Dictyota, mostly found in green coloration but there are several varities of this algae.
Link to a pic of Dictyota....
http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/...-acutiloba.jpg

I would definately wait before pulling anything plant like off the rocks because most of the forms of life you will find on your rock will be benificial to the tank if it survives the swarms of Tangs.

Hope this helps, keep up the good work. I hope it all turns out just like it looks in your head.

Cheers,
Mike in FL. Panhandle


Link to a picture from RC thread showing Red Turf Algae...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-0...s/image027.jpg

Wow my first post in 6 years!! Go Peter!

Mike, here is a close up of the #3 pic........I'm not sure but I don't think it's red turf algae. Whatever it is it certainly looks healthy.......




Mr Wilson is preparing some salad dressing for it........no salt please Shawn, I'm trying to cut down.

Peter

[nineball]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

What does the winner get? Gracilaria? http://tnenvis.nic.in/Algal_gal/GRAC...20TEXTORII.jpg

I'm not sure Shawn......here is a close up of the first pic.......




What do you think?

Peter