Did NO3-PO4 do this

fishdip22 · 01/17/2018, 03:17 PM

So I have been using the Red Sea NO3-PO4 since the start of my tank there is no algae in this tank and in fact its been very clean other then this white stringy algae that is growing under all the rocks. I try to look it up and I am not finding much info on it other then a few random post about others having it in there tank and they also use the NO3-PO4

mcgyvr · 01/17/2018, 03:45 PM

Nope...

Tripod1404 · 01/17/2018, 03:53 PM

Yep, but it is not algae. That is bacteria, there is so much of it that it started to form biofilm. Certain bacteria species form biofilm when environmental conditions are very pleasant. Biofilm basically prevents other micro organisms to colonize that environment and make the environment even more favorable for that bacteria. Long story short, there is excessive bacterial growth due to excessive carbon dosing.

I would reduce the amount of NOPOx dosed. Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels. You dont need to those carbon if they are already low. That would starve the corals and eventually cause bleaching.

bertoni · 01/17/2018, 04:19 PM

I agree that the Red Sea product in question can encourage bacterial growth. I might try cutting back a bit to see what happens. Every tank responds differently, so you'll need to experiment.

fishdip22 · 01/17/2018, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Yep, but it is not algae. That is bacteria, there is so much of it that it started to form biofilm. Certain bacteria species form biofilm when environmental conditions are very pleasant. Biofilm basically prevents other micro organisms to colonize that environment and make the environment even more favorable for that bacteria. Long story short, there is excessive bacterial growth due to excessive carbon dosing.

I would reduce the amount of NOPOx dosed. Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels. You dont need to those carbon if they are already low. That would starve the corals and eventually cause bleaching.

NO3 is around 1-2ppm and PO4 has been high right now its down to 9ppm. I was adding 2.5ML a day and have started cutting it back I am doing 1.8ML each day for this week and I am going to drop it down to 1.25 next week. my goal is .25 to 1.0ml.

Tripod1404 · 01/17/2018, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishdip22

NO3 is around 1-2ppm and PO4 has been high right now its down to 9ppm. I was adding 2.5ML a day and have started cutting it back I am doing 1.8ML each day for this week and I am going to drop it down to 1.25 next week. my goal is .25 to 1.0ml.

Are you sure there is 9ppm (not 0.09 or even 0.ppm)? That is super high. I would use GFO to drop it below 0.5ppm before trying carbon dosing.

fishdip22 · 01/17/2018, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Are you sure there is 9ppm (not 0.09 or even 0.ppm)? That is super high. I would use GFO to drop it below 0.5ppm before trying carbon dosing.

yes sorry my bad I use the hanna Phosphorus test kit. its at 3PPB so 0.009ppm my po4 was off the charts about 2 weeks back as the top off water I was using had a PO4 level of 0.064 but have since changed the place I get water from.

Tripod1404 · 01/17/2018, 05:18 PM

With those values I would not actually dose any carbon.

fishdip22 · 01/17/2018, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

With those values I would not actually dose any carbon.

Is it save to just stop? Also what would you look for as a sign if stopping it is not working going well what are some of the first signs?

Tripod1404 · 01/17/2018, 05:25 PM

To be safe, you might stop it by cutting back on how much you dose each day. Like in a span of 3-4 days.

After that you can look for rapid increases in nitrate as a sign. Like if it raises from 1-2ppm to 6-8ppm in few days.

If that happens you can continue dosing NOPOx sparsely (like once or twice a week) until it stabilizes

fishdip22 · 01/17/2018, 05:28 PM

Ok thanks for the help.

bertoni · 01/17/2018, 08:42 PM

I agree that those parameters likely are fine as is, and I don't see a need to dose organic carbon (NOPOx) unless there's some specific issue with the tank.

mcgyvr · 01/18/2018, 09:28 AM

That does NOT look like bacterial slime (biofilm) to me at all.. hence my nope
Looks like algae (crystophytes spelling? or similar hair algae)

fishdip22 · 01/18/2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

That does NOT look like bacterial slime (biofilm) to me at all.. hence my nope
Looks like algae (crystophytes spelling? or similar hair algae)

What is the best way to ID this? Would this work for seeing the cells?https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-Micro...croscope&psc=1

Tripod1404 · 01/18/2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

That does NOT look like bacterial slime (biofilm) to me at all.. hence my nope
Looks like algae (crystophytes spelling? or similar hair algae)

I think it is Alcaligenes faecalis. A type of bacteria that can grow rapidly in the presence of alcohols. Some people even clain air refresheners can cause it, as most contain alcohol or a type of VOC.

Here is a short article about it.

http://animals.mom.me/white-slime-sa...rium-8930.html

Tripod1404 · 01/18/2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishdip22

What is the best way to ID this? Would this work for seeing the cells?https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-Micro...croscope&psc=1

That microscope is powerful enough to practically see every microorganisms, if that is what you are asking. But you might need a stain of some short, as the cells you are trying to see might be transparent and you might need to stun them if they are motile.

Also, if you are not experienced with using a microscope, trying to focus on something with a large magnification (like plus 100X) would be hard and you need something above that to clearly see bacterial cells. The focal plain at high magnifications would be very narrow, and it can be hard for someone who is not used to microscopes to find it and focus the microscope. But I think a microscopes is infinite fun with and aquarium, so i would say go for it

.

fishdip22 · 01/18/2018, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

I think it is Alcaligenes faecalis. A type of bacteria that can grow rapidly in the presence of alcohols. Some people even clain air refresheners can cause it, as most contain alcohol or a type of VOC.

Here is a short article about it.

http://animals.mom.me/white-slime-sa...rium-8930.html

Hmm I am not sure then as this stuff is only on the not lit areas of the tank and has not moved to any other place in the last 2 weeks I have noticed it.

Tripod1404 · 01/18/2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishdip22

Hmm I am not sure then as this stuff is only on the not lit areas of the tank and has not moved to any other place in the last 2 weeks I have noticed it.

How much you have depend on the carbon input. Light facing rocks generally have a layer of algae or other types of photosynthetic organisms. So it is hard for bacteria to colonize those places. Underside of rocks or places that dont get rock are relatively bare and easier to colonize, that is why you only see white slime at those places.

bertoni · 01/18/2018, 05:42 PM

Chrysophytes might be a possibility for this pest. I'm not good at ids, but Google will turn up some images.

Tripod1404 · 01/18/2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

Chrysophytes might be a possibility for this pest. I'm not good at ids, but Google will turn up some images.

Chrysophytes are photosynthetic and still have a faint yellow/brown color. i dont think anything photosynthetic would grow under the rocks.

bertoni · 01/18/2018, 07:09 PM

Ah, I should have reread the original post.

fishdip22 · 01/18/2018, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Chrysophytes are photosynthetic and still have a faint yellow/brown color. i dont think anything photosynthetic would grow under the rocks.

Yep this is very white. And stringy in parts at first I was thinking it was a old man version of hair algae that turn white with age.

01/17/2018, 03:17 PM	#1
fishdip22 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 170	Did NO3-PO4 do this So I have been using the Red Sea NO3-PO4 since the start of my tank there is no algae in this tank and in fact its been very clean other then this white stringy algae that is growing under all the rocks. I try to look it up and I am not finding much info on it other then a few random post about others having it in there tank and they also use the NO3-PO4 __________________ An aquarium is just a submarine for fish.

01/17/2018, 03:45 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Nope... __________________ Who me?

01/17/2018, 03:53 PM	#3
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	Yep, but it is not algae. That is bacteria, there is so much of it that it started to form biofilm. Certain bacteria species form biofilm when environmental conditions are very pleasant. Biofilm basically prevents other micro organisms to colonize that environment and make the environment even more favorable for that bacteria. Long story short, there is excessive bacterial growth due to excessive carbon dosing. I would reduce the amount of NOPOx dosed. Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels. You dont need to those carbon if they are already low. That would starve the corals and eventually cause bleaching. Last edited by Tripod1404; 01/17/2018 at 04:23 PM.

01/17/2018, 04:19 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I agree that the Red Sea product in question can encourage bacterial growth. I might try cutting back a bit to see what happens. Every tank responds differently, so you'll need to experiment. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/17/2018, 05:28 PM	#11
fishdip22 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 170	Ok thanks for the help. __________________ An aquarium is just a submarine for fish.

01/17/2018, 05:18 PM	#8
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	With those values I would not actually dose any carbon.

01/17/2018, 05:25 PM	#10
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	To be safe, you might stop it by cutting back on how much you dose each day. Like in a span of 3-4 days. After that you can look for rapid increases in nitrate as a sign. Like if it raises from 1-2ppm to 6-8ppm in few days. If that happens you can continue dosing NOPOx sparsely (like once or twice a week) until it stabilizes

01/17/2018, 08:42 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I agree that those parameters likely are fine as is, and I don't see a need to dose organic carbon (NOPOx) unless there's some specific issue with the tank. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/18/2018, 09:28 AM	#13
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	That does NOT look like bacterial slime (biofilm) to me at all.. hence my nope Looks like algae (crystophytes spelling? or similar hair algae) __________________ Who me?

01/18/2018, 05:42 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Chrysophytes might be a possibility for this pest. I'm not good at ids, but Google will turn up some images. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/18/2018, 07:09 PM	#21
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Ah, I should have reread the original post. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni