Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 05/20/2018, 09:56 AM   #426
Dan_P
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmz View Post
The chart was introduced about 9 years ago when carbon dosing began to be more popular....
Thanks. This was a nice recap. The 2 mL/gal cap is an interesting observstion. Not sure anyone would a priori have predicted this limit. There is still a lot to discover here, one thing being the non-reproducibility of successful dosing.


Dan_P is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/20/2018, 03:53 PM   #427
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmz View Post
I wanted to know what others were experiencing ,so I...
If you'd like to post your observations in the vodka dosing table thread, I think other people would be interested, and it'd be easier to find them.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/20/2018, 09:54 PM   #428
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
People have made that hypothesis, but I haven't seen any reason to see how that can work. The soft tissue creates the skeleton, so it has to be there for the coral to grow.
I don't think it's a simple as a lack of tissue growth. I think the shortage of nutrients in a so called UNLS system makes it harder for the coral to direct skeletal growth for which they use ATP phosphate to mediate the caclio blastic fluid among other things. A nitrogen shortfall may also have an impact on zooxanthelae. With some PO4 and nitrogen , say PO4 at .02 to .of ppm and nitrate at.5 to 1ppm and alk in the 9 to 10dkh range there is no burnt tip syndrome in my tanks.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/22/2018, 11:40 AM   #429
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
If you'd like to post your observations in the vodka dosing table thread, I think other people would be interested, and it'd be easier to find them.
Done as requested . Feel free to edit for clarity if you wish.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/22/2018, 10:37 PM   #430
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Thank you!


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/23/2018, 11:02 AM   #431
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
You are welcome; my pleasure.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/04/2018, 06:17 PM   #432
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddi0 View Post
Your vinegar dosing is approx. equal to what I am currently dosing. I have dosed more, a lot more, and pulled back because I was getting a lot of bacteria. My nitrates and phosphates are approx. 0. Daily I feed:
1/2 cube Marine Delight
1/4 tsp of Coral Frenzy
1/4 tsp. TDO
5ml RG Complete Phyto
3ml each Red Sea A&B
Every other day I tweezer feed 1/4 of a prawn tail to my lg. brittles and huge arrow crab
Cheers! Mark
Hi. What size/volume tank is this?


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/04/2018, 08:08 PM   #433
Daddi0
Registered Member
 
Daddi0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redwood City
Posts: 1,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsucre View Post
Hi. What size/volume tank is this?
Wow, this is testing my memory. This was my feeding routine in January and we had approx. 120 gallons. Now we are up to 180 gallons. I have revamped my feeding and vinegar due to the fact that natural seawater we were using spiked our nitrates to over .45ppm.
Cheers! Mark


__________________
2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef
30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater
Daddi0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2018, 09:46 AM   #434
Dennco2000
Registered Member
 
Dennco2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8
Not being able to use natural seawater (red tide south west Fla) has caused my problems.

My tap water is 9.5 PH so adding my kalkwasser to my top off created a total ph of 12.0 in my top off tank... My display tank ph crept up to 8.9 during the middle of the day so I started dosing 8 - 12 ml of vinegar daily (65 gal tank) to get the ph down. So far so good and I have not done any water changes in 3 to 4 months. I don't plan to increase the vinegar dosage.

I did finally buy some reef crystals so I'll do a 5 gal change this weekend until I get back to 15 gallon changes.


__________________
65 Aqueon Tall Saltwater
Dennco2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2018, 11:08 AM   #435
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennco2000 View Post
Not being able to use natural seawater (red tide south west Fla) has caused my problems.

My tap water is 9.5 PH so adding my kalkwasser to my top off created a total ph of 12.0 in my top off tank... My display tank ph crept up to 8.9 during the middle of the day so I started dosing 8 - 12 ml of vinegar daily (65 gal tank) to get the ph down. So far so good and I have not done any water changes in 3 to 4 months. I don't plan to increase the vinegar dosage.

I did finally buy some reef crystals so I'll do a 5 gal change this weekend until I get back to 15 gallon changes.

I think you are referring to KH, not PH.


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2018, 01:55 PM   #436
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
A full-strength Kalk solution should be at about pH 12.5 or so. Tap water can come at a high pH to reduce corrosion, so those numbers seem plausible for pH.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2018, 01:58 PM   #437
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
I thought he was referring to the pH of the display tank. Sorry about the confusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/18/2019, 08:50 AM   #438
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
A few days ago I discovered that my Ca was at 240!!! I validated the result by taking a water sample to my LFS and also by testing my other tank and it is confirmed that my Ca was super low.

My fault to stop doing periodic Ca tests because I felt that it was pretty stable with my Kalk dosing (ATO reservoir), so I decided to test only Alk, Nitrate, Phosphate, Salinity, Mg and sometimes K. Bad decision!

I'm now slowly correcting it by manually dosing Red Sea Calcium+ stock solution (1ml raises 2ppm Ca in 25g). Ca is now at 340ppm.

Now the question: Why? I'm maintaining my Alk at around 7.8 - 8.1 dKH with Kalk (via ATO RO water). My understanding is that normally, with this mechanism of Kalk, Ca and KH should remain leveled. If I'm monitoring my KH closely, how come Ca went so low and in a different direction? I understand that it would be more common for Ca to go up and not KH with Kalk.

Perhaps the Vinegar dosing plays a factor here? Can you help me understand what's doing on? Will I have to adjust something? Or will I just have to start dosing Ca separately of the Kalk to compensate for the Ca-KH disparity?


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/18/2019, 05:27 PM   #439
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Vinegar dosing probably won't make a difference. How long ago was the last calcium test before you got the 240 ppm measurement? Water changes will lower alkalinity a bit if there's nitrate in the water column, and that could lead to this problem over a very long time frame.

You might have gotten a bad batch of salt, or there might be some other similar issue. Another possibility is dosing alkalinity supplement thinking it's calcium, which has happened at least once before.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/18/2019, 08:05 PM   #440
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
Hi Jonathan,

> 6 months since my last Ca test. Ca was always around 400ppm.Embarrasing to say, but yes, I should not have stopped testing Ca.

My NO3 is almost undetectable to the point I started to dose NO3 (Sodium Nitrate solution) daily. Even with dosing, NO3 has not been greater than 0.5ppm. I also dose Kalk in my topoff water. KH has been tested weekly and been between 7.8 - 8.1 dKH.

Almost no water changes in the last 6 months.


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/18/2019, 11:17 PM   #441
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
I am not sure what happened, then. I don't think that kind of drop would be expected for such a setup, although 6 months is a long time. Every month or two should be okay for most systems.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/18/2019, 11:19 PM   #442
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
Thanks Jonathan. I will correct the parameters and keep an eye con it.


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/19/2019, 04:23 PM   #443
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Okay. Please let us know if you find any interesting trends.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2019, 07:09 AM   #444
tom g
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: toronto
Posts: 218
nopox

can I start vinegar dosing wheni finish my bottle of no pox or do I have to start from scratch ie the dosing guide ….
I am assuming nopox Is somewhat a vinegar base as the smell is similar to vinegar ...


tom g is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2019, 10:09 AM   #445
rsucre
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 169
Hi Tom,

You don't have to start from scratch. Just adjust the dosing to the Vinegar equivalent. According to well respected RC Mod Bertoni, the vinegar equivalent is about 3 times your current NOPOX dose and recommends starting a little below that.

See this thread about the topic: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2667544


rsucre is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/14/2019, 09:18 PM   #446
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
There's also a DIY formula for NOPOx:

Quote:
To make a DIY version of Red Sea NO3:PO4-X, mix:
    375 ml 80 proof vodka
    500 ml vinegar (5% acetic acid)
    125 ml RO/DI water



__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/29/2021, 08:05 AM   #447
Bluesavy
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1
Randy,
First off good reads I have been enjoying them. I am getting frustrated with my system. Almost ready to give it up (not there quite yet). I have roughly 300 gallons of water in my system. I am dosing close to 470ml a day of vinegar. I am running my protein skimmer like crazy. I just can not get under 10ppm with nitrate. Now normally i would not care about this as i feed heavy and run a normally heavy load. However I have a Bryopsis attack that has to be fed by nutrients. Did you ever figure out how much was too much on your vinegar? Do i keep going up until i find the magic amount? Do i add biopellets as well? Oh by the way i have a 90 gallon refugium also set up with a HUGE ball of chateo, and a remote deep sand bed (6" total sand in a 50 gallon brute trough).


Bluesavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/29/2021, 10:23 AM   #448
Vinny Kreyling
Registered Member
 
Vinny Kreyling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Miller Place, NY
Posts: 7,206
Randy does not frequent RC anymore.
He is however on the other channel.


__________________
250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.
Vinny Kreyling is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.