Saltwater backyard fish pond?

pszemol · 05/06/2006, 12:31 PM

Here is an idea to think about:
build a fish pond but to fill it with salt water instead of freshwater

What animals/plants would fit nicely such a saltwater body in southern Wisconsin and Chicago area ?

Subfreezing temperatures in winter, hot summers, etc...

Any fish/inverts could you suggest ?

DougSupreme · 05/06/2006, 02:30 PM

two problems I could foresee in advance.

One: how would you keep the salinity stable? Rain and evap would wreak havok on your salinity from day to day.

Two: How would you maintain an adequate temperature during our wonderful winter season? Could be expensive to maintain an 80 temp when the air temp is 0 or less

But if you come up with solutions to these situations, please post your results.

pszemol · 05/06/2006, 03:22 PM

Well, I am not talking about the tropical reef pond, obviously.
I was thinking about real-life, unheated pond. Probably one exception would have to be considered: freezing time in winter. I know saltwater will not likely freeze solid, but anything alive in the pond would not like temperatures below freezing point.

Evaporation/rain - that is an issue, I agree. But, similar situation is in the ocean shore in the tide pools: salinity varies a lot in these areas!

My biggest thing would be twofold:
- the cost of salt
- variety of animals which can survive in such environment

Can you think of any fish/invert suitable for such pond ?

MDKyleZ · 05/06/2006, 03:41 PM

I think it was about 2 years ago now a man approched the company that I was working for about turning his 40 foot half indoor half outdoor lap pool in to a reef tank, here in Florida.

There is are several threads here on RC about it.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364989

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364991

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364990

Kyle

MDKyleZ · 05/06/2006, 03:46 PM

None come to mind that are very common.

World wide there are several places with this kind of temp. swing. Look for the critters that live in those places.

Kyle

reefnewbie54321 · 05/07/2006, 02:30 PM

Its been done ive seen pictures on other boards maybe a year or so ago.

Sainity would be #1 problem

Temperature would be your second, you could use a propane pond heater. Along wit a propane pond chiller in summer.

If you dont use a chiller and heater your temperature will go through ridiculas swings ... no invert/fish could survive those kinds of swings

spoon671 · 05/08/2006, 08:23 PM

Get a seal, maybe a penguin? Salinity and temperature wouldn't matter TOO much to them.

sjfishguy · 05/08/2006, 09:28 PM

Bluefish, sea robins, american flounder, american eel, black sea bass, sand sharks, striped bass. all these fish from the mid-atlantic can withstand temps from 50-80 and huge salinty swings. These are your best bet IMO. However, there may be some fish and game issues and I dont know how you would get these fish out where you live. Easy to get around here though

TOYMAN357 · 05/08/2006, 11:45 PM

I live in Ma and the only thing around here in the winter is shell fish, lobsters, and maybe a a Tatog(sea bass). I am thinking of turning my swimming pool into salt water for the summer and fall. I will need to release late fall I think no way to heat 7000 gal pool over winter.

Mclendonmdw1 · 05/10/2006, 11:52 AM

There is a great example of a salt water pond at the Whitney Lab in St. Augustine Florida. The pond is probably 100 feet by 40 feet. Its purpose is not to be a Ã¢â‚¬Å“pondÃ¢â‚¬Â so much as a post treatment pond for their lab, but it is stocked with red fish, snook, flounder, sheep head, sting rays, and a few other species. The reds are the size of my leg! Any way this is the only working salt water pond I have ever seen. I wish I had pics. Basically the system that serves the pond works like this:
The water is pumped from an off shore well point that is 20m deep in the ocean floor about .25 miles off shore. The water is pumped into a huge cistern that sits about 20 feet in the are. I would guess the cistern is about 20,000gallons. (This is also where I get my salt water from

. Then from the cistern it flows into the lab tanks where the study olfactory nerves in lobsters and phosphoresces in inverts. Then from there it flows into a denitrifying pool (BIG FAT WET DRY W/ bio balls) then into the pond where it has a resonance time to remove any thing else it is then discharged into the intercostal water way. The system is a flow through so the water is turned over constantly. I think this is one of the few ways to have a salt water pond.

starfish66 · 05/14/2006, 11:02 PM

What you are describing or wanting is not natural, and no noticeable creature could survive the temp and salinity swings, as well as general uncleanliness.

rustybucket145 · 05/15/2006, 03:43 PM

If you have an auto-topoff system the salinity issue would be null. On to the sand issue. Why not rent a dumptruck and make a trip to the keys? You will have to invest heavily in heaters and chillers and maybee even an alarm system to alert you if the temp swings too far (equip failure). Many animals can withstand these 'wider' temp swings. In the marsh the water gets extemely hot during low tide and cools back off when the tide comes in.

tkeracer619 · 05/15/2006, 09:47 PM

The money you spend on this would be better spent on a huge tank in your living room. That way you can see it all the time and it wouldnt be a small pond in the backyard you forget about.

The swing would be there with auto top off, it wouldnt get more concentrated just less if it rained. Mixes with mud, fertilizer, cat poop. You name it its in the back yard.

Ursus · 05/19/2006, 06:06 PM

Yeah I think a huge tank would be more cost efficient in the long run, but it would be cool to have a saltwater pond.

JmLee · 05/21/2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MDKyleZ
None come to mind that are very common.

World wide there are several places with this kind of temp. swing. Look for the critters that live in those places.

Kyle

so mdkylez, what ever happened to that whole 7000gallon pool deal?.

castorpollux · 05/23/2006, 03:04 PM

if it gets below freezing the top will freeze and raise the salinity sky high, if you top it off with ro then when it melts you will have it drop to the floor. i thought about trying a project similar to this along time ago, i was going to build a surge barrel for it and everything... its just impossible unless you just put it inside of a greenhouse.

Sk8r · 05/23/2006, 03:25 PM

what you're likely to have is a salt marsh, estuary conditions. Scats might tolerate it, dragon goby, etc. It would, however, wreak havoc on your lawn.

ezcompany · 05/25/2006, 12:55 PM

if u have some sort of a canopy on top of it that would help tons.
would keep out dirty rain water, snow, leaves, bird poop...could help control the temperature if u could cover the sides a bit.
i can't imagine what you need for current and flow. did maxijets come out with their 10000s series?
i say build a underground tunnel right next to it and start ur own mini aquarium.

uhohraggy · 06/02/2006, 11:42 AM

A very long time ago, there was a company that built reef pools. They also did freshwater. I think I saw it in the early 80's.

These were heated swimming pools though.

MDKyleZ · 06/02/2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JmLee
so mdkylez, what ever happened to that whole 7000gallon pool deal?.

The man is still rebuilding from huricaine damage. And I no longer work for the same company. Still friends with them though.

Kyle

05/06/2006, 02:30 PM	#2
DougSupreme Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,226	two problems I could foresee in advance. One: how would you keep the salinity stable? Rain and evap would wreak havok on your salinity from day to day. Two: How would you maintain an adequate temperature during our wonderful winter season? Could be expensive to maintain an 80 temp when the air temp is 0 or less But if you come up with solutions to these situations, please post your results. __________________ Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef

05/08/2006, 08:23 PM	#7
spoon671 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The East Bay Posts: 948	Get a seal, maybe a penguin? Salinity and temperature wouldn't matter TOO much to them. __________________ - Enthusiast, In Transit Current Tank Info: IM Nuvo 16 Mixed Reef

05/08/2006, 09:28 PM	#8
sjfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 2,212	Bluefish, sea robins, american flounder, american eel, black sea bass, sand sharks, striped bass. all these fish from the mid-atlantic can withstand temps from 50-80 and huge salinty swings. These are your best bet IMO. However, there may be some fish and game issues and I dont know how you would get these fish out where you live. Easy to get around here though __________________ Rich nanoTOTM May '08 29 years saltwater, 19 years reefs Current Tank Info: 65 mixed reef

05/10/2006, 11:52 AM	#10
Mclendonmdw1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: St. Augustine Florida Posts: 19	There is a great example of a salt water pond at the Whitney Lab in St. Augustine Florida. The pond is probably 100 feet by 40 feet. Its purpose is not to be a Ã¢â‚¬Å“pondÃ¢â‚¬Â so much as a post treatment pond for their lab, but it is stocked with red fish, snook, flounder, sheep head, sting rays, and a few other species. The reds are the size of my leg! Any way this is the only working salt water pond I have ever seen. I wish I had pics. Basically the system that serves the pond works like this: The water is pumped from an off shore well point that is 20m deep in the ocean floor about .25 miles off shore. The water is pumped into a huge cistern that sits about 20 feet in the are. I would guess the cistern is about 20,000gallons. (This is also where I get my salt water from. Then from the cistern it flows into the lab tanks where the study olfactory nerves in lobsters and phosphoresces in inverts. Then from there it flows into a denitrifying pool (BIG FAT WET DRY W/ bio balls) then into the pond where it has a resonance time to remove any thing else it is then discharged into the intercostal water way. The system is a flow through so the water is turned over constantly. I think this is one of the few ways to have a salt water pond.

05/15/2006, 03:43 PM	#12
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	If you have an auto-topoff system the salinity issue would be null. On to the sand issue. Why not rent a dumptruck and make a trip to the keys? You will have to invest heavily in heaters and chillers and maybee even an alarm system to alert you if the temp swings too far (equip failure). Many animals can withstand these 'wider' temp swings. In the marsh the water gets extemely hot during low tide and cools back off when the tide comes in. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

05/06/2006, 12:31 PM	#1
pszemol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: La Grange, IL Posts: 632	Saltwater backyard fish pond? Here is an idea to think about: build a fish pond but to fill it with salt water instead of freshwater What animals/plants would fit nicely such a saltwater body in southern Wisconsin and Chicago area ? Subfreezing temperatures in winter, hot summers, etc... Any fish/inverts could you suggest ?

05/06/2006, 03:22 PM	#3
pszemol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: La Grange, IL Posts: 632	Well, I am not talking about the tropical reef pond, obviously. I was thinking about real-life, unheated pond. Probably one exception would have to be considered: freezing time in winter. I know saltwater will not likely freeze solid, but anything alive in the pond would not like temperatures below freezing point. Evaporation/rain - that is an issue, I agree. But, similar situation is in the ocean shore in the tide pools: salinity varies a lot in these areas! My biggest thing would be twofold: - the cost of salt - variety of animals which can survive in such environment Can you think of any fish/invert suitable for such pond ?

05/06/2006, 03:41 PM	#4
MDKyleZ Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 568	I think it was about 2 years ago now a man approched the company that I was working for about turning his 40 foot half indoor half outdoor lap pool in to a reef tank, here in Florida. There is are several threads here on RC about it. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364989 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364991 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=364990 Kyle

05/06/2006, 03:46 PM	#5
MDKyleZ Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 568	None come to mind that are very common. World wide there are several places with this kind of temp. swing. Look for the critters that live in those places. Kyle

05/07/2006, 02:30 PM	#6
reefnewbie54321 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 1,263	Its been done ive seen pictures on other boards maybe a year or so ago. Sainity would be #1 problem Temperature would be your second, you could use a propane pond heater. Along wit a propane pond chiller in summer. If you dont use a chiller and heater your temperature will go through ridiculas swings ... no invert/fish could survive those kinds of swings

05/08/2006, 11:45 PM	#9
TOYMAN357 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: IN THE FISH ROOM Posts: 117	I live in Ma and the only thing around here in the winter is shell fish, lobsters, and maybe a a Tatog(sea bass). I am thinking of turning my swimming pool into salt water for the summer and fall. I will need to release late fall I think no way to heat 7000 gal pool over winter.

05/14/2006, 11:02 PM	#11
starfish66 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	What you are describing or wanting is not natural, and no noticeable creature could survive the temp and salinity swings, as well as general uncleanliness.

05/15/2006, 09:47 PM	#13
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	The money you spend on this would be better spent on a huge tank in your living room. That way you can see it all the time and it wouldnt be a small pond in the backyard you forget about. The swing would be there with auto top off, it wouldnt get more concentrated just less if it rained. Mixes with mud, fertilizer, cat poop. You name it its in the back yard. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

05/19/2006, 06:06 PM	#14
Ursus Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 480	Yeah I think a huge tank would be more cost efficient in the long run, but it would be cool to have a saltwater pond.

05/23/2006, 03:04 PM	#16
castorpollux Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 683	if it gets below freezing the top will freeze and raise the salinity sky high, if you top it off with ro then when it melts you will have it drop to the floor. i thought about trying a project similar to this along time ago, i was going to build a surge barrel for it and everything... its just impossible unless you just put it inside of a greenhouse. __________________ One time in bangkok the world was my oyster... :) Current Tank Info: Currently none... but previously a 23g SPS Nano- 400w XM 20k, 2-32 w Sunpaq Dual Actinics, 2 maxijet 1200 (mod'd), magdrive 5 return, cpr backpak skimmer, refugium. 4g office pico 70w 14k hqi

05/23/2006, 03:25 PM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	what you're likely to have is a salt marsh, estuary conditions. Scats might tolerate it, dragon goby, etc. It would, however, wreak havoc on your lawn. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/25/2006, 12:55 PM	#18
ezcompany Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,640	if u have some sort of a canopy on top of it that would help tons. would keep out dirty rain water, snow, leaves, bird poop...could help control the temperature if u could cover the sides a bit. i can't imagine what you need for current and flow. did maxijets come out with their 10000s series? i say build a underground tunnel right next to it and start ur own mini aquarium.

06/02/2006, 11:42 AM	#19
uhohraggy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Leandro, CA Posts: 6	A very long time ago, there was a company that built reef pools. They also did freshwater. I think I saw it in the early 80's. These were heated swimming pools though.