SEACHEM SALINITY Salt Users - Please Help - Got some but Very Concerned about Using

[that Fish Guy]

So my Frag Tank Alkalinity keeps Rising.

It is currently at 11.4 and I am trying to lower it to acceptable levels.

But when I make Reef Crystals the Alkalinity is at 13.7 so that will only make things worse.

So I got a Small Bucket of Salinity by Seachem from my LFS to try because it is supposed to have Lower Alkalinity than Reef Crystals.

And it does as I measure it at 9.8

Now the Problems

1. It is Super Cloudy so I am very concerned about using it.
2. When I added the Salt to the RO Water it actually burned me - much like the Seachem Calcium Powder does.
3. Every time I mix it it Smells like something is Burning in the Room.
4. The Salt itself looks odd. Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean both have all very fine grains of salt that are uniform. Salinity has fine grains like that too but also a bunch of larger grains of salt.

I included some pics to show you my Concerns.

Now Reef Crystals mixes up Clear within a Few Minutes.
But after 40 Minutes the Salinity Salt is still very Cloudy.

Do you guys have the same things happening as me or do I have a bad batch?

Alkalinity 9.8
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1335

Picture #1 - Mixed up a Bucket of Salinity (Note how Cloudy it is - You cannot even see the Heater in the Bucket) on the Left and Reef Crystals on the Right - Both were made at the same time.
Picture #2 - Seachem Salinity Salt - (Note the Larger Particles Sizes - I have never seen Salt like this before).
Picture #3 - Reef Crystals Salt

[slief]

Did you mix the bucket of salt before you added it to the water? There are different additives that are put into the salt mix and they tend to seperate into layers in the bucket. As such, you should stir the mix the bucket well to even distribute everything in the salt mix before adding it to the water. At least if you aren't using the entire bucket or bag contents at once. The different grain sizes you see are likely the different things that that go into the salt mixture. As for the cloudiness, it could be precipitate from it not being mixed well or you need to allow it more time to mix. Also, was your water cold when you mixed it or was your RODI water already warmed? Warmer water tends to help the mix dissolve better. Every mix is different though in how long it takes to completely dissolve so that is also a factor. Lastly regarding the burning sensation. The salt you are using may be more concentrated and it could also be the trace elements or other additives that are different from the salt you were using previously.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by slief

Did you mix the bucket of salt before you used it? There are different additives that are put into the salt and the tend to seperate into layers in the bucket. The different grain sizes you see are likely the different things in that go into the salt mixture. As for the cloudiness, it could be precipitate from it not being mixed well or you need to allow it more time to mix. Also, was your water cold? Warmer water tends to help the mix dissolve better.

Water was 78 Degrees.

No I did not Mix it.

Why does Reef Crystals not have Different Sized Grains?

I feel that all these things are big red flags that the salt is bad but I do not know for sure since I have never used it before.

Anybody that has actually used this salt please post if this is normal or not so I can decide what to do?

[slief]

The cloudiness is the result of precipitate from too much salt being added to the water at once. It seems to be a common issue with that salt. As for the grain size, I promise that is the reason. I've seen it in other salt mixes as well. What you see in the reef crystals is just the result of the way they process their mix or the result of the size grains in the additives they include in the mix.

Follow this link below. You even were inquired about the precipitae issue with this salt.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2023399

[tkeracer619]

Salt mixes better in colder water so mix before you heat.

Also that burning is why you don't add salt mix directly to a tank, it will burn the fishes gills.

Never used the salt so can't comment on that.

Mix instant ocean and let it sit for a week or two. The dkh will drop as it sits in the bucket.

[slief]

The cloudiness issue/Precipitate was even mentioned in this other thread you started on this salt mix some time back.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...achem+salinity

[slief]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Salt mixes better in colder water so mix before you heat.

Also that burning is why you don't add salt mix directly to a tank, it will burn the fishes gills.

Never used the salt so can't comment on that.

Mix instant ocean and let it sit for a week or two. The dkh will drop as it sits in the bucket.

Interesting. I always thought it mixed better in warmer water. Then again, I haven't had to pay attention to that in years and my RODI water is always cold and I don't heat my mix container unless a really large water change is planned. I just dump enough salt into mix mix tank to cover the RODI water I transferred and let the pump do it's thing until it turns itself off. I rarely ever look into that tank and my water changes are done 1 gallon at a time so a bit of cloudiness in the mix water going into my sump isn't even noticeable.

[tkeracer619]

Here is a quote from a RHF article way back in 2005...

Elevated temperature impacts calcium carbonate precipitation in two ways: 1) by simply reducing the solubility of CaCO3 (which is more soluble at lower temperatures) and 2) by causing the formation of additional carbonate from the bicarbonate in solution. These effects are roughly similar in magnitude, and are one of the reasons that pumps and heaters can be more rapidly coated with calcium carbonate precipitate than other objects in the same aquarium.

Here is the complete article and a very good one at that.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by slief

The cloudiness is the result of precipitate from too much salt being added to the water at once. It seems to be a common issue with that salt. As for the grain size, I promise that is the reason. I've seen it in other salt mixes as well. What you see in the reef crystals is just the result of the way they process their mix or the result of the size grains in the additives they include in the mix.

Follow this link below. You even were inquired about the precipitae issue with this salt.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2023399

I just thought it was odd as I mix the Reef Crystals the same way and it is clear within a few minutes.

After a while (over an hour) the Seachem Salinity did get less cloudy but still not as clear as the reef crystals.

Should I use this Salt?

[tkeracer619]

It is likely fine. What does alk, ca, and mag test out at now?

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

It is likely fine. What does alk, ca, and mag test out at now?

Alkalinity 9.8
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1335

[tkeracer619]

I'd use it.

[rogersb]

I do water changes of about 30 gallons on a 300 gallon system and even if it's a little cloudy in the brute can it has no effect on the tank or inhabtants.

[jusn317]

I'm on my fourth bucket of Salinity and I really like it. When I was heating my water prior to adding the salt it was very cloudy, but since I've been adding it to cold water then heating my mixing container the cloudiness is not as bad. I also prefer to let it mix overnight and do my water changes in the morning. A few times I've had to add newly mixed salt to my tank and there were no issues.

[slief]

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

I just thought it was odd as I mix the Reef Crystals the same way and it is clear within a few minutes.

After a while (over an hour) the Seachem Salinity did get less cloudy but still not as clear as the reef crystals.

Should I use this Salt?

Every salt mixes differently and as such, the clarity varies from one mix to the next depending on how long it was mixed for and how it was mixed. I'd say the water is fine. Next time, try adding the mix slower in smaller batches and allow it to dissolve completely before adding more mix. This will obviously take more time to bring the mix to the correct salinity but it should insure less precipitation. Also, do so with cold water as Tkeracer suggested. While I have never paid attention to my RODI water temps, my mixing container and RODI water is always on the cold side, if salt mix does dissolve faster and better in colder water, that coupled with slowly adding the salt, should go a long way in improving your mixed water clarity with this salt mix.

That said, I've always found the Instant Ocean salt mix to mix very well and very quickly. While I don't use Reef Crystals, I've never heard anybody complain about water clarity in their mixed water when using either IO salt. Every brand of salt is different though.. Some mix faster and more clear than others depending on what is in their mix and also probably because of grain size. One thing is clear though, this particular salt mix seems to have more precipitate issues than others and as such, needs to be mixed in slower and sit longer for it to clear. I base this in numerous comments in the other threads on this salt and your comments as well. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or bad about this mix. In fact, it could be great salt. It just has it's own set of nuances that you have to come to expect with it.

[Sk8r]

I get my salt (Oceanic) by the large bucket. I remove a couple of quarts re-lid, and roll the barrel on the floor---turn it over, turn it back, roll some more, put the salt back in and roll it again. Dunno if it does any good, but it makes me feel as if maybe it's mixed better.

[VJV]

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

I just thought it was odd as I mix the Reef Crystals the same way and it is clear within a few minutes.

After a while (over an hour) the Seachem Salinity did get less cloudy but still not as clear as the reef crystals.

Should I use this Salt?

Hi, I am going through my first bucket of Salinity and to answer your question: yes, you should use it. I do 10% water changes every week and when added to the tank the cloudiness dissipates in 30-45min. Furthermore, contrary to other salts I have used my LPS are fully extended right after the change, so I guess the cloudiness is not an issue. I have also had much less swings in the parameters since I started using this one.

I have contacted Aquavitro about the cloudiness and bellow is the email exchange. You will notice they say that they mix it for 6-10hours, with just one power head and no heater. You will need to read from bottom up to make any sense. Hope this helps.

Vasco,

You are most welcome. Have a great day!
Product Support 102086









On Feb 9, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Vasco Luis Sousa Azevedo Figueiredo Jardim wrote:

Thanks for the excellent support!

Kind regards

Vasco

Sent from my iPhone

On 09/02/2015, at 15:23, Support Account wrote:

Vasco,

Thank you for your email reply, we just use Vinegar with an 8% Acetic Acid strength. It seems to work best to “wash” the barrel and to remove any calcified remains from mixing so many batches of salt per week. I have never used bleach for that purpose, but have found that the Vinegar (8% Acetic Acid) solution works great for removal.

I hope this helps. Have a nice day!
Product Support 102086









On Feb 7, 2015, at 5:17 AM, Vasco Jardim wrote:

Thanks for the prompt reply.

On the acid bath, what exactly do you use and in what quantities? Would bleach serve the same purpose?

Kind regards

Vasco

Sent from my iPad

On 06/02/2015, at 16:35, Support Account wrote:

Hello Vasco,

Thank you for your reply. You can heat the water slightly to allow better solubility of the salt, however we would recommend that you not exceed the 22-25 C range. We use 1 500gph pump in a 60 gallon barrel (approximately filled with 50 gallons of fresh RO/DI water).

The white water will not be harmful if you precipitate some of the components, or if all the minerals have not fully dissolved. As long as you have achieved your desired specific gravity after mixing for 4-8 hours, the water will clear once added to the aquarium.

We also rinse our mixing barrel with water after each use and also do an acid wash on it once a week (we mix anywhere from 2-5 batches of saltwater a week for office use). This helps keep the barrel clean and free of debris and bacteria that can build up in mixing containers.

I hope this helps. Have a nice day!
Product Support 102086


On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:13 AM, Vasco Jardim wrote:

Dear Aquavitro Supoort Team,

Could you please clarify the following?

- given my RO water is at 17 degrees centigrade should I pre heat it to 22 degrees prior to adding the salt? (You mention you mix it at room temp - 22-25 degrees)

- what is the turnover you are using for mixing? I am using approximately 100x per hour (2800L/h power head for a 30L container)

- after 6, 10, and 18 hours mixing it is still milky white.

- the mixing container, after using it twice for salinity is covered with white sludge and it smells really bad.

Please let me know if this is normal and what can i do about these issues. I would really like to use Salinity but if I continue to have these results I will need to seek another brand.

Kind regards

Vasco




Sent from my iPad

On 30/01/2015, at 15:09, Support Account wrote:

Hello Vasco,

Thank you for your email. Due to the fact that salinity has a high concentration of minerals, the residue in the container is likely a direct result of a few things:

1. the highly concentrated materials used in the salt,
2. letting it mix too long/ or at a speed that is too rapid
3. a natural occurrence when mixing a high quality salt
4. the acceleration of the temperature in conjunction with the mixing procedure used

When mixing this salt, we have found that 24 hours or less is ideal (more specifically 6-10 hours is best to avoid heavy precipitation). The longer you let the salt mix, the more C02 it will take on and the more precipitation you will encounter. C02 --> water --> carbonic acid --> bicarbonates/carbonates. Mixing the salt for more than 24 hours can cause a decrease in alkalinity and pH, resulting in a precipitation of calcium and carbonates. When we mix it here at Seachem, we mix it in 50 gallon drums with one powerhead at room temperature (22-25 degrees Centigrade). There is no need to use a heater or multiple powerheads. As a matter of fact, we do not recommend using a heater or powerful circulation when mixing Salinity. The residue is harmless, and if it enters the aquarium, it will be filtered out by your mechanical filtration.

If you follow the tips above you should see less clouding or residue when mixing salinity.

I hope this helps. Have a nice day!
Product Support 102086









On Jan 30, 2015, at 9:07 AM, wrote:

You have been contacted by Vasco Jardim with regards to Problems with Aquavitro Salinity salt, their additional message is as follows.

"Hi, I decided to try the Salinity salt and am having some troubles with it. Basically it never completely dissolves and it leaves a whitish sludge covering my mixing container. My previous salt (Red Sea Coral pro) never did that.

I have mixed without pre heating the water (at around 17C), preheating to 25C and to 22C. I am mixing for 20h. The worst results were by far when I pre heated the water up to 25C.

Even after 20h the water is still cloudy (though 45min after I put it in the tank it dissipates) and the container is always covered with this whitish sludge.

Is there anything wrong with my batch? Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards

Vasco"