Silent and Failsafe Overflow System - Page 385

rhickman17 · 02/13/2018, 05:47 PM

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my response. I didn't mean slotted, as in teeth in the weir. I don't want that. I want a smooth sheet of water coming over the edge of my internal box. When I said they "cut a slot in your side panel" I was referring to what looks like a notch cut out of the top of the pane of glass in the schematic you provided.

I want the water sheeting over a long thin internal overflow box, and for the people using internal+external overflow boxes, the consensus seems to be, once the water level is equal ~ between the internal and external box, the noise should be mitigated due to it acting as one body of water. Apparently that is achieved by the water filling the pass-through holes half way up - this answers one of my questions partially. My concern is whether 1000 gph filling the pass-throughs half way up would still be quiet.

saf1 · 02/13/2018, 05:52 PM

Correct - that is what you want, and what I actually requested

I just didn't get it. I'll probably remove the slots in time since they are acrylic then I'll have a smooth weir like you noted.

Quiet - yes. Once you balance the return pump to match the overflow you won't hear it. I don't. Only time I hear or notice it is after a restart from the pump being off or testing the emergency overflow. It really is dead quiet. One other thing. I used union ball valves. I think he recommends the gate valve since it is easier or more accurate to adjust.

rhickman17 · 02/13/2018, 05:59 PM

Yes, I already have the gate valve for my setup. I'm just working out where to find the glass for the external box (which I mentioned earlier I just found locally), and making sure it will be strong enough to support the plumbing and water, as well as remain silent. It's in my living room, and I will be setting up another in my room if this setup is silent.

I know it is quite loud after the restart or when the emergency kicks on; I think I have gone through just about every YouTube video there is

I'm looking forward to the internal+external setup, permitting I can keep it silent

Lsufan · 02/13/2018, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalick

Something doesn't add up. If you close the gate valve on the full siphon, your open channel will operate as intended. If you open the gate valve just a tiny amount, it cannot possibly be handling all the water of your return pump, unless your return pump is pushing out a trickle of water.

Yea, he got it figured out. What happens in a lot of cases with people having startup issues is the open channel takes most of the water causing the syphon not to be able to purge the air to get going. That is why the airline for the open channel is supposed to be above the emergency. So if anything the emergency takes a little water on startup but it still builds enough pressure to purge the air from the syphon. If the open channel kicks into syphon before the syphon purges it’s air then the syphon will never get going. It is more of a issue with back drilled tanks & interior overflow boxes. On the ghost type overflows it isn’t really a issue because of the hieght differences between the open channel & syphon standpipes.

That was partially his issue but not his main issue. His open channel was taking a bunch of water making it a little harder for the syphon to purge the air. In his case, eventually the syphon would kick in & it would drain the overflow box because the valve was needing to be closed more. The syphon wasn’t kicking in so his small adjustments wasn’t doing anything. Eventually he figured out that his main issue was that his valve needed to be closed way more then what he was doing.

October Sky · 02/14/2018, 10:33 AM

I have two questions, which should be simple.

1. When I purchased parts, I purchased 1 gate valve and 2 ball valves. At this point, I don't know why I purchased the ball valves. I was convinced I needed them for the second/third drains. Did I imagine this?

2. Is there any "proper" placement for the gate valve in terms of "distance from overflow box?" I have a simple 36" stand, 40 breeder, going to a 20 gallon sump. Can I put the gate valve in the lower compartment, or should it be mounted on the vertical downpipe? I see it done both ways, but would prefer it below so it's not against the wall and easier to reach.

Thanks.

BeanAnimal · 02/16/2018, 09:13 AM

Technically speaking, the siphon standpipe is the only one that needs a valve. That said, I like having the versatility of valves on all three standpipes. That valve on the siphon standpipe can be down at sump level.

October Sky · 02/21/2018, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

Technically speaking, the siphon standpipe is the only one that needs a valve. That said, I like having the versatility of valves on all three standpipes. That valve on the siphon standpipe can be down at sump level.

Thanks so much. I really don't know why I bought the extra valves, and I actually lost the first purchase somewhere in my home, so now I have 4 extra valves as soon as I find them.

I have decided on doing an algae reactor split off from my return pump, so at least one of the valves will go to good use.

As to placement of the valve on the siphon, I may need to put it up. Just finished the framing of the stand and it may be problematic where I wanted it in my head.

monkiboy · 02/21/2018, 09:20 AM

Advertising your sale in the main forums isn't allowed.

BeanAnimal · 03/15/2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Sky

Thanks so much. I really don't know why I bought the extra valves, and I actually lost the first purchase somewhere in my home, so now I have 4 extra valves as soon as I find them.

I have decided on doing an algae reactor split off from my return pump, so at least one of the valves will go to good use.

As to placement of the valve on the siphon, I may need to put it up. Just finished the framing of the stand and it may be problematic where I wanted it in my head.

Just place it wherever is convenient.

Overgrown · 03/16/2018, 11:48 PM

Have been running this system for years and have the basics down as far as how to plumb one properly thanks to Bean and Jim. My issue now is that I went to a smaller sump on my
Latest build, which seems to have been a poor choice. Display is 200 gallons with an approx 40 gallon sump. The standpipes exit into a baffle chamber that is only approx 4” wide, (drains terminate less than an inch into the water line). The high turbulence from the siphon rebounds off the floor of the sump at high velocity and careens over said baffle into the sock chamber, which creates microbubbles that don’t dissipate since the sump is fairly small and there isn’t much of a bubble trap down stream prior to the return pump compartment. I’m guessing I need to design a larger sump, just wondering if others have experience this. This wasn’t an issue with my larger sump on my older system. The solution I foresee is to design a sump with a larger compartment accepting the standpipes(say a foot long) so the flow from the siphon “slows down” prior to careening over a baffle, and install and under- over- under bubble trap further downstream after a skimmer chamber. I should add that socks do aid in the microbubbles but I honestly want to get away from using them. Since this isn’t directly secondary to operation of the Bean itself, I can create a separate thread, just wondering if others have had similar issues and could weigh in. Would rather not sacrifice turnover to accommodate a smaller sump I suppose, just curious if my thinking is accurate.

Lsufan · 03/17/2018, 08:26 PM

Sounds like u eighther have a shallow first section or a ton of flow, or a combination of both. I’m not sure it would help all that much making the section bigger, but it would help making it deeper.

I have basically the same sump setup on my 150 dt. My plumbing is 1.5”, & I also have a 4” section for the drains. The first baffle that holds the socks is eighther 13 or 14” tall & I have ran as much as 1200 gph & didn’t have that issue. If your syphon enters the sump close to one side then u can try placing a 45 on the end of the pipe so all the force isn’t going straight down.

Using beans design & a property tuned skimmer u can get away without a bubble trap a lot of the time because neighther create bubbles. Running a ton of flow thru a small sump is one of those instances where a bubble trap may be needed.

BeanAnimal · 03/17/2018, 09:13 PM

Under over is the proper baffles design If bubbles are a concern. The first under ensures that most of the tiny bubbles rise to the surface and pop instead of traveling to the next compartment. With an over baffle first, the bubbles rise and go over the falls. The velocity of the water carries the all the way through. The over baffle sets the intake compartment water level. If the ATO is set to the over height, then bubbles that do make it to the over baffle will stay on the surface, as the main sumo compartment has more volume and a lower velocity, with no waterfall due to the ATO set height.

I added a second under baffle becuase I wanted to force the water through a wall of live rock on the sump. The high velocity deep in the sump kept most detritus from settling, compared to the under, single over setup.

If I did it again, it would be simply under over and I would use the large main sump compartment as a purposeful detritus trap with no live rock.

As mentioned above, most folks end up making the problem worse by adding a bunch of bafffles that create a waterfall and high velocity water that entertains bubbles. One more case of urban reefing legend that gets passed on daily with little thought to how silly it really is.

IUfan · 03/18/2018, 04:06 PM

Just setting up my 240G. I bought a Modular Marine Overflow. Now I’m about to start plumbing it.

I’ve plumbed a beananimal from outside before, but I need some advice for plumbing it inside the box.

1. What height should I make the standpipe inside the box?

2. Do I need to make each standpipe different height?

3. Can I buy a 180 U-bend for internal use? Or better to buy 2 90’s and join them together?

4. Anyone have any instructional pictures/videos etc so I don’t mess this up? Haha

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rocking · 03/21/2018, 11:46 PM

This has been a fun lay out to get things done right !i am running a guitman model 6000 max head presher is 1400 gph and I am running it at 613 gig through a 1 inch short standpipe of the bean overflow but first part of my set up to feed the bean overflow is a triple system starting out with a 50 Micron filter pad going to a 100 Micron carbon filter pad into heavy Metal remover then into bio balls around the intake of the bean standpipes into a trigger sump does anyone see a problem with this ?

Misled · 03/25/2018, 07:36 PM

PB links repaired where possible.

Floyd R Turbo · 03/26/2018, 10:53 AM

What's your trick for repairing them?

Misled · 03/26/2018, 09:10 PM

Adding ~original between jpeg and [img] to each pic. Most of the time it works, but a lot of people deleted their PB accounts.

BeanAnimal · 03/28/2018, 08:50 PM

One of the more irritating issues I run into on the internet is missing photos from defunct hosting accounts.

Sisterlimonpot · 03/29/2018, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

One of the more irritating issues I run into on the internet is missing photos from defunct hosting accounts.

I agree, there are so many threads that have instantly became worthless because of that.

BeanAnimal · 03/29/2018, 07:22 AM

I try to host all of my own photos... then again I could get hit by a bus and somebody could forget to feed the server.

Misled · 03/29/2018, 05:38 PM

Hey Bill and Jimmy!!!

Sisterlimonpot · 03/29/2018, 09:01 PM

Hello Jesse, been a while...

BeanAnimal · 03/30/2018, 09:15 PM

Hiya Guys... yep, don't get a chance to post much anymore. I lurk and a thankful that so many folks help answer questions.

Sisterlimonpot · 03/30/2018, 10:04 PM

Well it's always an honor to see the guy responsible for many many flood free tanks... hehe

I've gotten lazy in the last few years, is there a consolidated, updated site that has your design laid out for us lazy folks?

BeanAnimal · 03/31/2018, 10:52 AM

Working on it - beananimal.com will be fully revamped very soon (I have been working on it a few times a week). It should go live soon.

02/13/2018, 05:52 PM	#9602
saf1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: California Posts: 2,259	Correct - that is what you want, and what I actually requested I just didn't get it. I'll probably remove the slots in time since they are acrylic then I'll have a smooth weir like you noted. Quiet - yes. Once you balance the return pump to match the overflow you won't hear it. I don't. Only time I hear or notice it is after a restart from the pump being off or testing the emergency overflow. It really is dead quiet. One other thing. I used union ball valves. I think he recommends the gate valve since it is easier or more accurate to adjust. __________________ -saf1 Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef

02/21/2018, 09:20 AM	#9608
monkiboy Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: washington, dc Posts: 277	Advertising your sale in the main forums isn't allowed. Last edited by Sugar Magnolia; 02/21/2018 at 10:10 AM.

03/17/2018, 08:26 PM	#9611
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	Sounds like u eighther have a shallow first section or a ton of flow, or a combination of both. I’m not sure it would help all that much making the section bigger, but it would help making it deeper. I have basically the same sump setup on my 150 dt. My plumbing is 1.5”, & I also have a 4” section for the drains. The first baffle that holds the socks is eighther 13 or 14” tall & I have ran as much as 1200 gph & didn’t have that issue. If your syphon enters the sump close to one side then u can try placing a 45 on the end of the pipe so all the force isn’t going straight down. Using beans design & a property tuned skimmer u can get away without a bubble trap a lot of the time because neighther create bubbles. Running a ton of flow thru a small sump is one of those instances where a bubble trap may be needed. Last edited by Lsufan; 03/17/2018 at 10:42 PM.

03/25/2018, 07:36 PM	#9615
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	PB links repaired where possible. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

03/26/2018, 10:53 AM	#9616
Floyd R Turbo Either busy or sleeping Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Des Moines, IA Posts: 4,265 Blog Entries: 15	What's your trick for repairing them? __________________ Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729

02/13/2018, 05:47 PM	#9601
rhickman17 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 35	Sorry, I wasn't clear in my response. I didn't mean slotted, as in teeth in the weir. I don't want that. I want a smooth sheet of water coming over the edge of my internal box. When I said they "cut a slot in your side panel" I was referring to what looks like a notch cut out of the top of the pane of glass in the schematic you provided. I want the water sheeting over a long thin internal overflow box, and for the people using internal+external overflow boxes, the consensus seems to be, once the water level is equal ~ between the internal and external box, the noise should be mitigated due to it acting as one body of water. Apparently that is achieved by the water filling the pass-through holes half way up - this answers one of my questions partially. My concern is whether 1000 gph filling the pass-throughs half way up would still be quiet.

02/13/2018, 05:59 PM	#9603
rhickman17 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 35	Yes, I already have the gate valve for my setup. I'm just working out where to find the glass for the external box (which I mentioned earlier I just found locally), and making sure it will be strong enough to support the plumbing and water, as well as remain silent. It's in my living room, and I will be setting up another in my room if this setup is silent. I know it is quite loud after the restart or when the emergency kicks on; I think I have gone through just about every YouTube video there is I'm looking forward to the internal+external setup, permitting I can keep it silent

02/14/2018, 10:33 AM	#9605
October Sky Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Upstate, NY Posts: 31	I have two questions, which should be simple. 1. When I purchased parts, I purchased 1 gate valve and 2 ball valves. At this point, I don't know why I purchased the ball valves. I was convinced I needed them for the second/third drains. Did I imagine this? 2. Is there any "proper" placement for the gate valve in terms of "distance from overflow box?" I have a simple 36" stand, 40 breeder, going to a 20 gallon sump. Can I put the gate valve in the lower compartment, or should it be mounted on the vertical downpipe? I see it done both ways, but would prefer it below so it's not against the wall and easier to reach. Thanks.

02/16/2018, 09:13 AM	#9606
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Technically speaking, the siphon standpipe is the only one that needs a valve. That said, I like having the versatility of valves on all three standpipes. That valve on the siphon standpipe can be down at sump level.

03/16/2018, 11:48 PM	#9610
Overgrown Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 250	Have been running this system for years and have the basics down as far as how to plumb one properly thanks to Bean and Jim. My issue now is that I went to a smaller sump on my Latest build, which seems to have been a poor choice. Display is 200 gallons with an approx 40 gallon sump. The standpipes exit into a baffle chamber that is only approx 4” wide, (drains terminate less than an inch into the water line). The high turbulence from the siphon rebounds off the floor of the sump at high velocity and careens over said baffle into the sock chamber, which creates microbubbles that don’t dissipate since the sump is fairly small and there isn’t much of a bubble trap down stream prior to the return pump compartment. I’m guessing I need to design a larger sump, just wondering if others have experience this. This wasn’t an issue with my larger sump on my older system. The solution I foresee is to design a sump with a larger compartment accepting the standpipes(say a foot long) so the flow from the siphon “slows down” prior to careening over a baffle, and install and under- over- under bubble trap further downstream after a skimmer chamber. I should add that socks do aid in the microbubbles but I honestly want to get away from using them. Since this isn’t directly secondary to operation of the Bean itself, I can create a separate thread, just wondering if others have had similar issues and could weigh in. Would rather not sacrifice turnover to accommodate a smaller sump I suppose, just curious if my thinking is accurate.

03/17/2018, 09:13 PM	#9612
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Under over is the proper baffles design If bubbles are a concern. The first under ensures that most of the tiny bubbles rise to the surface and pop instead of traveling to the next compartment. With an over baffle first, the bubbles rise and go over the falls. The velocity of the water carries the all the way through. The over baffle sets the intake compartment water level. If the ATO is set to the over height, then bubbles that do make it to the over baffle will stay on the surface, as the main sumo compartment has more volume and a lower velocity, with no waterfall due to the ATO set height. I added a second under baffle becuase I wanted to force the water through a wall of live rock on the sump. The high velocity deep in the sump kept most detritus from settling, compared to the under, single over setup. If I did it again, it would be simply under over and I would use the large main sump compartment as a purposeful detritus trap with no live rock. As mentioned above, most folks end up making the problem worse by adding a bunch of bafffles that create a waterfall and high velocity water that entertains bubbles. One more case of urban reefing legend that gets passed on daily with little thought to how silly it really is.

03/18/2018, 04:06 PM	#9613
IUfan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 841	Just setting up my 240G. I bought a Modular Marine Overflow. Now I’m about to start plumbing it. I’ve plumbed a beananimal from outside before, but I need some advice for plumbing it inside the box. 1. What height should I make the standpipe inside the box? 2. Do I need to make each standpipe different height? 3. Can I buy a 180 U-bend for internal use? Or better to buy 2 90’s and join them together? 4. Anyone have any instructional pictures/videos etc so I don’t mess this up? Haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/21/2018, 11:46 PM	#9614
rocking Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: gridley ca Posts: 434	This has been a fun lay out to get things done right !i am running a guitman model 6000 max head presher is 1400 gph and I am running it at 613 gig through a 1 inch short standpipe of the bean overflow but first part of my set up to feed the bean overflow is a triple system starting out with a 50 Micron filter pad going to a 100 Micron carbon filter pad into heavy Metal remover then into bio balls around the intake of the bean standpipes into a trigger sump does anyone see a problem with this ?

03/26/2018, 09:10 PM	#9617
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Adding ~original between jpeg and [img] to each pic. Most of the time it works, but a lot of people deleted their PB accounts. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

03/28/2018, 08:50 PM	#9618
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	One of the more irritating issues I run into on the internet is missing photos from defunct hosting accounts.

03/29/2018, 07:22 AM	#9620
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I try to host all of my own photos... then again I could get hit by a bus and somebody could forget to feed the server.

03/29/2018, 05:38 PM	#9621
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Hey Bill and Jimmy!!! __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

03/29/2018, 09:01 PM	#9622
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Hello Jesse, been a while... __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

03/30/2018, 09:15 PM	#9623
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Hiya Guys... yep, don't get a chance to post much anymore. I lurk and a thankful that so many folks help answer questions.

03/30/2018, 10:04 PM	#9624
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Well it's always an honor to see the guy responsible for many many flood free tanks... hehe I've gotten lazy in the last few years, is there a consolidated, updated site that has your design laid out for us lazy folks? __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

03/31/2018, 10:52 AM	#9625
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Working on it - beananimal.com will be fully revamped very soon (I have been working on it a few times a week). It should go live soon.