Pairing Clownfish

[oneblackhorse]

Originally posted by JHardman

Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

This worked with my new maroons. I bought a small and large one. They never fought and have been together for 1 week. The smaller one is exhibiting submissiveness. When nipped at by the bigger clown, the smaller one drops back close to the tail of the bigger one, shimmies and gives little nibbles to the bigger fish. This satisfies the big fish and they swim around behaving themselves quite well. I am hoping that they are bonding.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don’t worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later.

Are you talking about clownfish or my last relationship?

[blorkiemom]

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere but I've read this thread (a great one!) and searched the forum and can't find it. Are there any guidelines about how long the bickering phase lasts?

I ask because I have 2 small (1 1/2 inch, unfortunately both the same size) CB black percs (that's what the LFS said, at least--from what I've read they might be ocellaris) in QT. They've been together for a month (2 weeks at the store, 2 weeks in my tank) and after acting like pals one started being aggressive to the other this weekend (2 days ago). She (I use the term loosely since who knows at this point) has the other one crammed under the PVC pipe in the tank on his side most of the time, though she does let him eat. I don't think I've seen him "quiver"--I'm expecting that that looks distinctive, but he just lies on his side and flaps his fins. Anyway, she harrasses him just about non-stop but there's no damage I can see so far. All of this seems normal, from what I've read here, but I wonder how long the little guy's going to have to cower in terror! I hope days rather than weeks.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by blorkiemom
I hope days rather than weeks.

I doubt your hopes will be met. Black A. ocellaris are nasty little fish (towards each other anyway). IME it will take between 2-4 months with two that are more or less equal in size.

[blorkiemom]

Oy! Well, I hope he's tough! She's not beating him up, but he's gotta be stressed. Thanks for the info, JHardman--this whole thread is a tremendous help.

[traveller7]

My experience matches JHardman's. A "pr" of black A. ocellaris have been scrapping since spring. In this case the larger of the two has put on a recent growth spurt which I hope ends the war btw: "war" means grabbing each others pectorals and shaking, alot

fwiw: Another of the former black trio has been matched up with a 10+ year old orange A. ocellaris and they get along pretty well overall but have not established who is boss.

[blorkiemom]

Update on those black percs, which I now know for sure are Ocellaris (dang LFS) . . . the fighting seems to be mostly over. It lasted about 3 days. She still rushes at him on occasion. He quivers at her sometimes, she quivers back sometimes. They still don't always hang together, but I hope the worst is over. (fingers crossed) Thanks for helping me out with this!

[aqua5]

i have a 40 gallon reef tank with one 2"+ osc clown.(i think)and a sixlined wrasse.


question 1.)if i bouht another clown of the same type what size should i get?
2.)how long will the "bickering" go on for?
3.)what are the signs that the small clown is being beatun up to much and needs to be taken out?
4.)how long will the eggs survive for without them trying to be raised?
5.)is there a thread on how to raise them?
6.)i have a berlin sump, 50lbs lr, and a 2 inch sand bed and a skimmer,what parameters do the eggs need to survive?
7.)what is the chance my clown will have no intrest in the new clown to be his mate?



thanks alot
and what book about clownfish pairing/raising would you reccomend?

[Atticus]

Originally posted by aqua5
i have a 40 gallon reef tank with one 2"+ osc clown.(i think)and a sixlined wrasse.


question 1.)if i bouht another clown of the same type what size should i get?
2.)how long will the "bickering" go on for?
3.)what are the signs that the small clown is being beatun up to much and needs to be taken out?
4.)how long will the eggs survive for without them trying to be raised?
5.)is there a thread on how to raise them?
6.)i have a berlin sump, 50lbs lr, and a 2 inch sand bed and a skimmer,what parameters do the eggs need to survive?
7.)what is the chance my clown will have no intrest in the new clown to be his mate?



thanks alot
and what book about clownfish pairing/raising would you reccomend?

1. Small ocellaris
2. Depends on the fish
3. Not too big of a chance with a small ocellaris
4. The parents will raise them until hatch (about 7-8 days)
5. Read the clownfish FAQ at the top of this forum
6. Best water quality possible
7. Not much ocellaris are breeders

Get Joyce Wilkerson's CLOWNFISHES book

[doh1771]

I bought 2 maroons; one that was 2.5" and the other about 1.25" long. They have been in my 85 gallon tank for about 2 and a half weeks. When the light is on, the big one, as expected, chases the smaller one around. The smaller one has suffered some fin/tail damage but both are eating like pigs. At night, each seems to have found its own little spot not too far from each other to sleep. Should they have paired up by now, if they are to pair up at all? Should I keep them together a bit longer or give up and pull the smaller out? TIA.

[trueclown]

Can anyone clarify for me. I have two clowns one true percula- (orange with more black than a false) and a false Is it possible that these two will become paired and spawn or are they separate species. I got them both when they were smaller but the one is bigger than the other

[Atticus]

They can pair and can spawn with viable young. Now if the young can spawn I don't know for sure.

[jackief]

Fascinating thread. I have a similar query to a previous poster.. I am in the UK where black percs are very much less common than the predominantly red percs (I don't mean the black & white occelaris, but percs with less black than the ones referred to as black clowns....).

The available black percs are, in my experience, routinely about 2 inches to 2 inches plus and usually seen singly or in small groups of 3/4 identically sized creatures in a tank.
I had almost given up on obtaining a pair, so when I saw a 2.5 inch black perc on it's own I bought it (it/he/she had just been bought in from TMC, not certain if it had been housed in a group but I will ask)
I have had this fish 3 weeks and, you guessed it, another has appeared from the same source and is slightly smaller (about 1.75-2 inches. Isn't it hard trying to get the measurenment of a moving fish!!!. I am going to speak to fish shop owner tomorrow and ask if it was in a communal tank at TMC.
So
If it was, do you think I have a chance of a buying this new fish and successfully establishing a pair?????
Apologies if this post is unclear or accidentally repetative!
Regards
Jackie

[Clarkii Clowns]

Clarkii clowns have been known in very few occasions to return to male from female.

just my 2 cents

[jackief]

An update with some observations. The lfs informed me that eac h perc had originally been in a seperate tank BUT in visual/adjacent contact with other black percs.
...Does this visual contact mean that the clowns maintain a sexless phase although both are in the over 1.5 inch stage?

I have bought the second, slightly smaller perc, mentioned in previous post. I have put him in my other clowns tank but have maintained him in an acrylic "safety" cage within the tank. In other words, they are in close visual contact but cannot touch each other.
They BOTH attempted to rush each other/bite at each others mouths (mouth lock?) through acclimatisation bag and then the safety cage. The smaller of the two , after several minutes, then tilted his/her body upwards and or donwards...sometimes "exposing" his/her belly and showing some slight quivering. This is interspersed with occasional biting attempts through the acrylic barrier.
I have had lights off overnight and they are now parrallelling on anothers swimming actions. I.e. they are staying side by side in the same area. The original perc usually swims throughout the tank but is staying beside the new perc. The new perc is also "choosing" to stay in the same vicinity as the other, slightly larger fish. He/she could move to the other side of acrylic cage but isn't.
Not sure if this is signs of progress or continued aggression. I am wondering if you folk can advise?
Regards
Jackie

[jackief]

An update with some observations. The lfs informed me that eac h perc had originally been in a seperate tank BUT in visual/adjacent contact with other black percs.
...Does this visual contact mean that the clowns maintain a sexless phase although both are in the over 1.5 inch stage?

I have bought the second, slightly smaller perc, mentioned in previous post. I have put him in my other clowns tank but have maintained him in an acrylic "safety" cage within the tank. In other words, they are in close visual contact but cannot touch each other.
They BOTH attempted to rush each other/bite at each others mouths (mouth lock?) through acclimatisation bag and then the safety cage. The smaller of the two , after several minutes, then tilted his/her body upwards and or donwards...sometimes "exposing" his/her belly and showing some slight quivering. This is interspersed with occasional biting attempts through the acrylic barrier.
I have had lights off overnight and they are now parrallelling on anothers swimming actions. I.e. they are staying side by side in the same area. The original perc usually swims throughout the tank but is staying beside the new perc. The new perc is also "choosing" to stay in the same vicinity as the other, slightly larger fish. He/she could move to the other side of acrylic cage but isn't.
Not sure if this is signs of progress or continued aggression. I am wondering if you folk can advise?
Regards
Jackie

[jackief]

An update with some observations. The lfs informed me that each perc had originally been in a seperate tank BUT in visual/adjacent contact with other black percs.
...Does this visual contact mean that the clowns maintain a sexless phase although both are in the over 1.5 inch stage?

I have bought the second, slightly smaller perc, mentioned in previous post. I have put him in my other clowns tank but have maintained him in an acrylic "safety" cage within the tank. In other words, they are in close visual contact but cannot touch each other.
They BOTH attempted to rush each other/bite at each others mouths (mouth lock?) through acclimatisation bag and then the safety cage. The smaller of the two , after several minutes, then tilted his/her body upwards and or donwards...sometimes "exposing" his/her belly and showing some slight quivering. However, this is interspersed with occasional biting attempts through the acrylic barrier.
I have had lights off overnight and they are now parrallelling one anothers swimming actions. I.e. they are staying virtually side by side in the same area, with only the acrylic seperating them. The original perc usually swims throughout the tank but is staying beside the new perc. The new perc is also "choosing" to stay in the same vicinity as the other, slightly larger fish. He/she could move to the other side of acrylic cage but isn't.
Not sure if this is signs of progress or continued aggression. I am wondering if you folk can advise?
Regards
Jackie

[JHardman]

Jackie what speices are we talking about here? A. percula or A. ocellaris?

[jackief]

A.percula. Apologies if my description was misleading. They are whhat some refer to as true percs with a lot of black (larger one resembles what some of you on RC call Onyx?)
Regards
Jackie

[JHardman]

IME A. percula tend to form pairs in the wild with with very small males, typically 1" total length or less with a female of 3"+.

With the two you have over about 2", chances are pretty good that they are both female, the larger for sure and the second I would rate at 90%+ chance of already being female.

You can try to release them together, but keep in mind A. percula are harsh in pairing and if you have two females, you might have one female if you are not there to react...

BTW, the thing about A. clarkii going male, then female and back to male is wrong. It is a one way trip, once a male, never to be sexless again, once a female, never to be male again.

[jackief]

Many thanks, I will keep them seperately and continue the search for <1 inch potential males. I would not want to risk harming either! Thank you so much for the information. Perhaps I am being overcautious in not "giving the free-swimming a go" with this pair but I would hate to cause damage through a slow response.
Thanks again
Jackie
ps I saw a beautiful, established tank today with two black perc pairs. This tank was only 4 footX 2 foot X 2 foot. My husband has been offered this tank but I was wondering regarding two perc pairs, especially as they are to be disturbed


As a matter of intetrest.

[edrive]

I have a true perc about 2.5" & I've been thinking about trying to find her a mate. I've had many different people give me advice & they are never the same. (LFS reps, friends, etc.)

My question: My percula has been the only clown in my 30g reef tank for about 2 years. There are 2 small damsels with her & a couple snails. I just got her a host sebae a few days ago & she loves it. Is it ok to add a small percula to this tank? If so, what size? I was thinking about an inch.

Thanks in advance.

[Atticus]

go with the smallest you can find.

[edrive]

Thanks Atticus.

Looks like I'm going shopping this weekend!

[EMBRYOGUY]

jhartman, i have a maroon and a true perc together. they sleep in same area and hang and swim together most of the time. what are the chances of them mating? or will they just forever be freinds.

the odd thing is that the perc seems to be the more dominant of the two. the maroon occasionally gets its fins riped during the night. but they never seem to fight during the day.

any thoughts on this?

[clownlover9996]

my feale perc clown is stutruing in the way its swiming. whats happening?