why so many Kessils up for sale lately?

SPotter · 02/15/2015, 08:11 AM

I need to upgrade my lights on my sps frag tank and Kessils are one of the options I am considering for the tank but with seeing so many going up for sale recently I am curious as to why.

thoughts?

mordibv · 02/15/2015, 09:33 AM

Kessil's have quite a following but the most I see for sale are the older models. Any models being sold listed as 360 W,N or 350 fit are older units . I cannot guess as to why any of the newest WE ones are going for sale . I certainly have looked at them. It would take too many to be successful in what I want to keep unless I use a slew of them .

3FordFamily · 02/15/2015, 09:45 AM

I used to work for a company that built custom leds for several applications such as automotive and others. I can tel you the difference between 3000 dollars in led fixtures and 300 dollars is minuscule.

However, if advanced controlling (above and beyond adjusting Blues and whites separatey, dimming and contolling Blues and whites separately) is your forte, drop the extra cash.

Me personally, I don't need lightening strikes

ca1ore · 02/15/2015, 10:03 AM

Some percentage of people just have to have the most recent version of something. When a new model of something comes out, you tend to see a lot of used sales. Usually absurdly priced since it is fundamental to the human condition to expect to get more for your own used gear than you'd be willing to pay for somebody else's. Expect to see a whole slew of vortech pumps for sale in the coming weeks.

slief · 02/15/2015, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FordFamily

I used to work for a company that built custom leds for several applications such as automotive and others. I can tel you the difference between 3000 dollars in led fixtures and 300 dollars is minuscule.

However, if advanced controlling (above and beyond adjusting Blues and whites separatey, dimming and contolling Blues and whites separately) is your forte, drop the extra cash.

Me personally, I don't need lightening strikes

These aren't automotive lights we are talking about and while your statement is true about many of the cheaper Chinese made fixtures, companies like Kessil actually do R&D to come up with the best mix of LED's for coral growth. Same can be said about the Radion's, Hydra's, ATI's as well as others. In anycase, with the above manufacturers the mix of LED's is primarily chosen to provide to correct mix of diodes for corals needs as far as photosynthetic radiation. Corals for the most part need a completely different range of spectrum than plants. As such, there isn't a need for a huge amount of white & cool white led's let alone red or green. Those colors are primarely for our viewing pleasure.

Bottom line, not all LED's are created equal and the fact is that there are many cheap fixtures out there that are not built to last and while they may boast wattage on par with the higher end fixtures, much of that wattage is wasted on diodes in a spectrum that isn't useful to most coral. In fact, some of those spectrums can promote and increase nuisance algae growth too.

3FordFamily · 02/15/2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

These aren't automotive lights we are talking about and while your statement is true about many of the cheaper Chinese made fixtures, companies like Kessil actually do R&D to come up with the best mix of LED's for coral growth. Same can be said about the Radion's, Hydra's, ATI's as well as others. In anycase, with the above manufacturers the mix of LED's is primarily chosen to provide to correct mix of diodes for corals needs as far as photosynthetic radiation. Corals for the most part need a completely different range of spectrum than plants. As such, there isn't a need for a huge amount of white & cool white led's let alone red or green. Those colors are primarely for our viewing pleasure.

Bottom line, not all LED's are created equal and the fact is that there are many cheap fixtures out there that are not built to last and while they may boast wattage on par with the higher end fixtures, much of that wattage is wasted on diodes in a spectrum that isn't useful to most coral. In fact, some of those spectrums can promote and increase nuisance algae growth too.

I am well aware of the differences. The difference in light is 95% the color temperature and ratio of various colors for best growth. That's it.

Coelli · 02/15/2015, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FordFamily

I used to work for a company that built custom leds for several applications such as automotive and others. I can tel you the difference between 3000 dollars in led fixtures and 300 dollars is minuscule.

However, if advanced controlling (above and beyond adjusting Blues and whites separatey, dimming and contolling Blues and whites separately) is your forte, drop the extra cash.

Me personally, I don't need lightening strikes

Do the Kessils even do lightning strikes? I control mine with my Apex.

The new Kessils (360xE series) are brighter than the previous 360s and all 360s have more controllability than the previous series. I don't know that I'd chalk this up to just a desire to have the latest and greatest.

Also to the OP - Kessils are definitely not flooding the used market or I wouldn't have had to buy my 360NEs new.

SPotter · 02/15/2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

These aren't automotive lights we are talking about and while your statement is true about many of the cheaper Chinese made fixtures, companies like Kessil actually do R&D to come up with the best mix of LED's for coral growth. Same can be said about the Radion's, Hydra's, ATI's as well as others. In anycase, with the above manufacturers the mix of LED's is primarily chosen to provide to correct mix of diodes for corals needs as far as photosynthetic radiation. Corals for the most part need a completely different range of spectrum than plants. As such, there isn't a need for a huge amount of white & cool white led's let alone red or green. Those colors are primarely for our viewing pleasure.

Bottom line, not all LED's are created equal and the fact is that there are many cheap fixtures out there that are not built to last and while they may boast wattage on par with the higher end fixtures, much of that wattage is wasted on diodes in a spectrum that isn't useful to most coral. In fact, some of those spectrums can promote and increase nuisance algae growth too.

Scott i love the way your tank looks now with the Kessils. Do you have a lot of sps in your tank?

SPotter · 02/15/2015, 12:14 PM

Thank you for everyone's spirited responses. I have had a lot of success with my t5's on my frag tank but its not big enough for the tank so I am contemplating going from 6x24 t5 to one of these options for my 44x24x12 frag tank....1) 8x39w t5 2) 36" cebu sun mh/t5 combo or 3) 3 x A160w kessils.

slief · 02/15/2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coelli

Do the Kessils even do lightning strikes? I control mine with my Apex.

The new Kessils (360xE series) are brighter than the previous 360s and all 360s have more controllability than the previous series. I don't know that I'd chalk this up to just a desire to have the latest and greatest.

Also to the OP - Kessils are definitely not flooding the used market or I wouldn't have had to buy my 360NEs new.

They do not support weather other than clouds.

slief · 02/15/2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPotter

Scott i love the way your tank looks now with the Kessils. Do you have a lot of sps in your tank?

Thanks. I really love these lights. My tank did well under the Reeftech LED's but these Kessils are by far better and the increased rate of growth in my corals and anemones since making the switch is very apparent. Contrary to some peoples assumptions there is a difference from one fixture to the next in terms of quality and usable light output for coral growth. Not all LED's are created equal and these cheap "full spectrum" LED's that are all over the market and not comparable to some of the better ones. That's not to say those cheap ones won't grow coral as they do. They just aren't nearly as efficient as there is often wasted power to channels or led colors that aren't needed. With a fixture that is designed for coral growth like some of the ones I mentioned earlier, you can get more growth with less power consumption while also reducing nuisance algae growth. I've used a few different fixtures over the last 4 years on my tanks and there clearly is a difference.

I've only got one SPS frag in my tank right now but it's doing really well despite my low calcium levels. I will be adding a calcium reactor in the near future though and I'm considering adding more SPS. My tank is primarily soft corals and LPS. My hammers and softies grow like weeds though.

that Fish Guy · 02/16/2015, 02:33 AM

People are probably wanting to sell them to get the New Kessil AP 700 Fixture that is coming out very soon.

j.a.c.wester · 07/05/2015, 03:00 PM

The new generation is also more silent because of the new cooling fans. And that is also one of the reasons why everyone is upgrading

Icefire · 07/05/2015, 10:40 PM

The problem with kessil is that you need many as they are a point source.

Go with a fixture that give you more width

Reefvet · 07/05/2015, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icefire

The problem with kessil is that you need many as they are a point source.

Go with a fixture that give you more width

Huh, the 2 covering my 40B are growing everything I put in it. Same is true of the 3 on my 4' long 100 gal..

But it's true if you wait a few weeks the newest Kessil design will be added to their line up and it's a much wider light.

Icefire · 07/06/2015, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefvet

Huh, the 2 covering my 40B are growing everything I put in it. Same is true of the 3 on my 4' long 100 gal..

But it's true if you wait a few weeks the newest Kessil design will be added to their line up and it's a much wider light.

2 on a 40 breader? That more than 800$ while you could have got probably got a Hydra 52 or a Razor 160w for half the price.

OP have 44x24 to cover, I would go with a 2x 120w razor, 1x300w razor or 2x Hydra 26/52

For a frag tank the more watt the better for growth

ChimolaFish · 07/06/2015, 06:23 AM

My experience with kessils is that they are the best light on the market. As for them being for sale, just check the model and how long it was run. I was wondering the same thing about gyres recently as I absolute adore mine, but see them for sale a lot.

Greg 45 · 07/06/2015, 06:42 AM

Take a look at the reef bright metal halide's .
I talked to Tullio at the show there reflectors almost doubled the lux amount over the reflector I am using now. They showed there reflectors over standard reflectors on the ceiling with t 5 bulbs and there reflectors light up the ceiling. The standard didn't cut it.

sixpackgarage · 07/11/2015, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

People are probably wanting to sell them to get the New Kessil AP 700 Fixture that is coming out very soon.

I think that's been 'coming soon' for a couple of years.. I got tired of waiting and picked up a pair of A360WE..

platypusklr · 07/11/2015, 05:39 AM

Bought A160WE's for my 90. Awesome lights.

Mark426 · 07/11/2015, 06:18 AM

The "new" Kessil 700 appears to be nothing more than two standard Kessils in a different housing. Right now, I dont understand what the excitement is all about. Hopefully I am mistaken.

sixpackgarage · 07/11/2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark426

The "new" Kessil 700 appears to be nothing more than two standard Kessils in a different housing. Right now, I dont understand what the excitement is all about. Hopefully I am mistaken.

You are a little mistaken. The AP700 allows more control over color and allows wireless control via an app instead of having to buy any external controller. I would have bought it if I had the patience to wait. I still may depending on how sweet it ends up being

Reefvet · 07/11/2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icefire

2 on a 40 breader? That more than 800$ while you could have got probably got a Hydra 52 or a Razor 160w for half the price.

No, I paid $500 for my pair of Kessils A350s. You just have to know where to shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark426

The "new" Kessil 700 appears to be nothing more than two standard Kessils in a different housing. Right now, I dont understand what the excitement is all about. Hopefully I am mistaken.

I think Kessil as a company is a little more sophisticated than that.

There are a couple of shops in L.A. that have been beta testers and have the lastest version in use and they're awesome.

igadget56 · 07/12/2015, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FordFamily

I used to work for a company that built custom leds for several applications such as automotive and others. I can tel you the difference between 3000 dollars in led fixtures and 300 dollars is minuscule.

However, if advanced controlling (above and beyond adjusting Blues and whites separatey, dimming and contolling Blues and whites separately) is your forte, drop the extra cash.

Me personally, I don't need lightening strikes

This is not the case with Kessil, they make there own LEDs

PatrikD · 07/12/2015, 04:57 AM

As I understand it, one drawback with fixtures like Kessil is the shadowing. This is due to the point source nature of Kessils. In the AP700 I think they want to eliminate this problem by using a reflector, so I imagine the led matrix is pointing upwards to the reflector which gives more uniform spread.

This is my own speculation though. :-)

02/15/2015, 08:11 AM	#1
SPotter Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC Posts: 5,691	why so many Kessils up for sale lately? I need to upgrade my lights on my sps frag tank and Kessils are one of the options I am considering for the tank but with seeing so many going up for sale recently I am curious as to why. thoughts? __________________ Steve Am I really doing all of this for a fish tank?????? Current Tank Info: 360g Envision Acrylic Tank, Closed Loops, Vectra L1's, MP40QD's, 400w Radiums, Regal 300ext, Dastaco Ext3 CaRx, Controlled by GHL Profilux

02/15/2015, 09:33 AM	#2
mordibv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Western Mass Posts: 1,499	Kessil's have quite a following but the most I see for sale are the older models. Any models being sold listed as 360 W,N or 350 fit are older units . I cannot guess as to why any of the newest WE ones are going for sale . I certainly have looked at them. It would take too many to be successful in what I want to keep unless I use a slew of them . __________________ It's hard to take advice from those who do not show the fruits of their labor . Current Tank Info: No tank ATM

02/15/2015, 10:03 AM	#4
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Some percentage of people just have to have the most recent version of something. When a new model of something comes out, you tend to see a lot of used sales. Usually absurdly priced since it is fundamental to the human condition to expect to get more for your own used gear than you'd be willing to pay for somebody else's. Expect to see a whole slew of vortech pumps for sale in the coming weeks. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/15/2015, 12:14 PM	#9
SPotter Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC Posts: 5,691	Thank you for everyone's spirited responses. I have had a lot of success with my t5's on my frag tank but its not big enough for the tank so I am contemplating going from 6x24 t5 to one of these options for my 44x24x12 frag tank....1) 8x39w t5 2) 36" cebu sun mh/t5 combo or 3) 3 x A160w kessils. __________________ Steve Am I really doing all of this for a fish tank?????? Current Tank Info: 360g Envision Acrylic Tank, Closed Loops, Vectra L1's, MP40QD's, 400w Radiums, Regal 300ext, Dastaco Ext3 CaRx, Controlled by GHL Profilux

07/05/2015, 10:40 PM	#14
Icefire Seasoned reefer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,653	The problem with kessil is that you need many as they are a point source. Go with a fixture that give you more width __________________ Temp 80F, PH 8.5-8.0, Alk 6.8-7.2, Ca 430, Mg 1700, NO3 0-0.25, PO4 0.04, 34.4 PPT Lights @ 100% all others, 35% White Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 120lbs live rocks, Hydra52 2x120W, 2 MP40+ 1 MP10 @ 70%, Phosban 550 GFO+Carbon, 200W Heater, SWC Skimmer, Kalk ATO, 150 gpd RODI

02/15/2015, 09:45 AM	#3
3FordFamily Registered Member. Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fishers, Indiana (Indianapolis suburb) Posts: 488	I used to work for a company that built custom leds for several applications such as automotive and others. I can tel you the difference between 3000 dollars in led fixtures and 300 dollars is minuscule. However, if advanced controlling (above and beyond adjusting Blues and whites separatey, dimming and contolling Blues and whites separately) is your forte, drop the extra cash. Me personally, I don't need lightening strikes

02/16/2015, 02:33 AM	#12
that Fish Guy Frag Swap Crusader! Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,538	People are probably wanting to sell them to get the New Kessil AP 700 Fixture that is coming out very soon.

07/05/2015, 03:00 PM	#13
j.a.c.wester Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 35	The new generation is also more silent because of the new cooling fans. And that is also one of the reasons why everyone is upgrading

07/06/2015, 06:23 AM	#17
ChimolaFish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 560	My experience with kessils is that they are the best light on the market. As for them being for sale, just check the model and how long it was run. I was wondering the same thing about gyres recently as I absolute adore mine, but see them for sale a lot. __________________ 300 Penninsula: Mixed Reef, 3 Hawaiian Dwarf Morays, 3 Watanabe Angels, 4 Molucca Damsels, 3 Staghorn Damsels, 1 Sgt Major, 1 Springer's, and 1 Magnificient Foxface.

07/06/2015, 06:42 AM	#18
Greg 45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bayonne,N.J. Posts: 1,159	Take a look at the reef bright metal halide's . I talked to Tullio at the show there reflectors almost doubled the lux amount over the reflector I am using now. They showed there reflectors over standard reflectors on the ceiling with t 5 bulbs and there reflectors light up the ceiling. The standard didn't cut it.

07/11/2015, 05:39 AM	#20
platypusklr Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nashville Indiana Posts: 126	Kessil lights. Bought A160WE's for my 90. Awesome lights. __________________ Made the mistakes. Saving for the dream build. My tank saved my life. It was truly the best cure for the daily thoughts, and nightly dreams of a troubled Soldier. Current Tank Info: Tankless for the next couple years until my Army Career comes to a close! (20 years going strong)

07/11/2015, 06:18 AM	#21
Mark426 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,479	The "new" Kessil 700 appears to be nothing more than two standard Kessils in a different housing. Right now, I dont understand what the excitement is all about. Hopefully I am mistaken.

07/12/2015, 04:57 AM	#25
PatrikD Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 111	As I understand it, one drawback with fixtures like Kessil is the shadowing. This is due to the point source nature of Kessils. In the AP700 I think they want to eliminate this problem by using a reflector, so I imagine the led matrix is pointing upwards to the reflector which gives more uniform spread. This is my own speculation though. :-)