drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[drummereef]

Originally posted by H.Veras
cuz i'm thinking of removing my from the side to put on the back. what do you think?
i got a better picture now... could you check it out later... thx..

Looks good to me. Do you feel like it's not getting coverage on the far end of the tank?


pg 14.

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


Been working on the drain plumbing a little bit. Here's a preview of what the plan is. Still need to pick up a few 1.5" unions and a hole saw for the bulkheads in the sump. I have a couple questions about that below...


Here's a couple more pics.


Right side drain



I will use the pvc hangers to hang the drain so disregard the string in the pic. It's only there to help with the mock-up.





Left side drain





QUESTION: What is the best hole saw to cut the holes for the bulkheads? I heard a fine tooth hole saw works the best...?





QUESTION: I want to put the suction side bulkhead in the bottom corner of the sump. how far from the bottom and side seams is acceptable to put the bulkhead so I don't cause problems down the road? I also want the option of putting a 90 elbow on there too.

[melev]

Brett, I use BluMol or Rigid holesaws from Home Depot. They work great.

If you center the hole 3.5" from the bottom and edge, that usually suffices. Hold it in position and see if that seems right to you. With bigger bulkheads, sometimes it has to be a little further away from the edges, and in those cases, I use a Street-90 elbow pointing downwards to get water from the bottom 1" of the sump's return section.

Remember to hand-tighten only.

[drummereef]

Originally posted by melev
Brett, I use BluMol or Rigid holesaws from Home Depot. They work great.

If you center the hole 3.5" from the bottom and edge, that usually suffices. Hold it in position and see if that seems right to you. With bigger bulkheads, sometimes it has to be a little further away from the edges, and in those cases, I use a Street-90 elbow pointing downwards to get water from the bottom 1" of the sump's return section.

Remember to hand-tighten only.

OK, great thanks Marc. I'm assuming you mean 3.5" measured from the inside of the sump right? Not the outside or actual bottom of the sump...

Here's a pic of the 90 fitting I have. It's a MPT street 90 I think. My bulkhead has FPT on the flange side for either the strainer or the 90. If I'm up an 1" off the bottom it should give me room to thread the street 90 on the bulkhead without getting bound up on the bottom of the sump.

[melev]

Place it where it works best for your design. If you need it to be up higher due to the elbow, raise it up. Is that a 2" bulkhead or 1.5"?

If you still want a strainer on the elbow, leave room to wiggle one in. I like that perforated PVC that AquaticEco.com sells.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategor...orated%20pvc/0

[drummereef]

Originally posted by melev
Place it where it works best for your design. If you need it to be up higher due to the elbow, raise it up. Is that a 2" bulkhead or 1.5"?

If you still want a strainer on the elbow, leave room to wiggle one in. I like that perforated PVC that AquaticEco.com sells.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategor...orated%20pvc/0

Gotcha. It's a 2" bulkhead. Same size plumbing as the intake of the pump. I was either going to use the 90 OR the strainer, in the pic with the bulkhead a couple posts up. Probably not both. The strainer was more of a back up in case the elbow causes some cavitation on the pump.

[Taqpol]

Originally posted by drummereef

I'm redesigning my reactor manifold due to changing my return pump, so I just went back and reread your conversation with psteeleb about your manifold (which I plan on copying).

One question I had:
Would it be better to but the ball valve that controls flow to the manifold BEFORE the manifold instead of after it? As it is, to choke back flow inside the manifold (and increase flow in the return line) you can do it on either end of the manifold, but putting it after the manifold would increase resistance and might make it easier for air bubbles to go through a reactor instead of the recirc line. Does that make sense?

[psteeleb]

He would need two valves to do that. He will be throttling the flow to the reactors with the reactor valves and the minimal recirc line with the valve downstream of the reactors. with all the valves partially shut the back pressure will direct the majority of the flow to the returns.

Think of the reactor valves as throttling valves not just on/off.

All that said I do have a valve upstream of my reactors that acts both as a on/off for the manifold and for overall header flow reduction. But for both a pre throttle and shut off it serves as a backup that is not really needed.

[Taqpol]

Originally posted by psteeleb
He would need two valves to do that. He will be throttling the flow to the reactors with the reactor valves and the minimal recirc line with the valve downstream of the reactors. with all the valves partially shut the back pressure will direct the majority of the flow to the returns.

Think of the reactor valves as throttling valves not just on/off.

All that said I do have a valve upstream of my reactors that acts both as a on/off for the manifold and for overall header flow reduction. But for both a pre throttle and shut off it serves as a backup that is not really needed.

It makes sense that the back pressure created by the valves would force most of the water to go to the returns, therefore not halving your return flow at the manifold. I just thought you recommended to have the minimal recirc line full open so that any bubbles would DEFINITELY pass the reactors, and then control the flow into the manifold by a valve upstream of the reactors but after it splits of the main return.

Basically, could I do the same thing with the valve upstream of the manifold without doing something weird to the flow inside the manifold?

[psteeleb]

the recirc line needs to be throttled back - as long as there is a small flow to the reactors and the recirc, the majority of any air in the header will seek the higher point until it is pushed out - also why the recirc is at the end of the run

Shut down and restart is the major concern for air bubble entrapment and burping the reactors. For this reason the header was lowered so it would be below the main returns to keep them flooded for the maximum amount of time. The reality is the pipe should all drain to the level of the sump so there is no way to completely avoid getting some air in the reactors unless his supply was below the sump level. This just isn't practical in most applications, as by the time you come off the pump discharge and add a tee at the lowest point you are almost always at or above the sump level.

On start up most of the air will go up through the returns as it has the least resistance and a upward path. Air that was inside the header will want to stay elevated unless there is no place else to go or flow to the reactors is strong enough push it down or out the end. The actual amount to the recirc vs the reactors will vary based on flow rates but given they are both slow I'd say 95% or more of the air in the header will stay elevated and go out the return or be pushed out the recirc. This leaves only the small amount of air that is in the drop legs to the reactors to deal with. Flow being slow enough even most of this will go up rather then down, but some will still get through and burp the reactors. We are just trying to minimize the amount of burp

[Taqpol]

Ok, all of that makes sense. I will throttle the recirc line back after the manifold.

Thanks Psteeleb, you are the RC piping guru!

[drummereef]

Taqpol - Excellent question.

So I think I'm following this correctly. So Pete, you are saying I should be fine with ONE valve at the end of the recirc line? I'm assuming it would be best to put the valve as far from the manifold as possible, as to not cause a turbulence situation close to the manifold, correct? My initial drawing does not reflect this...

[Taqpol]

Wow. I just used Sketchup to try and draw what my proposed plumbing plan was, you must be some kind of Sketchup god.

Probably doesn't help that I was trying to do it at work on a crappy laptop with a touchpad mouse.

[psteeleb]

Originally posted by drummereef
Taqpol - Excellent question.

So I think I'm following this correctly. So Pete, you are saying I should be fine with ONE valve at the end of the recirc line? I'm assuming it would be best to put the valve as far from the manifold as possible, as to not cause a turbulence situation close to the manifold, correct? My initial drawing does not reflect this...

there is some truth in your concern, flow will straighten out the further you get from a tee or elbow. It wont be a big deal but if you can move it maybe 5 pipe diameters downstream of the last tee it should help some. Also don't submerge your recirc line in your sump, you don't want to push the air below the water level in the sump. If you are concerned with splashing, just add a tee to the end of the line to break the flow. Install the tee so the there is a horizontal run that is at sump level where air can escape but ownt splash.

[drummereef]

Originally posted by Taqpol
Wow. I just used Sketchup to try and draw what my proposed plumbing plan was, you must be some kind of Sketchup god.

Probably doesn't help that I was trying to do it at work on a crappy laptop with a touchpad mouse.

I tried to do some of it on my wife's laptop and it wasn't happening, so I moved back to the desktop. Definitely helps to have a full size keyboard with the number pad. I got all my models from the "3d warehouse" too. That helps with the realism.

[drummereef]

Originally posted by psteeleb
there is some truth in your concern, flow will straighten out the further you get from a tee or elbow. It wont be a big deal but if you can move it maybe 5 pipe diameters downstream of the last tee it should help some. Also don't submerge your recirc line in your sump, you don't want to push the air below the water level in the sump. If you are concerned with splashing, just add a tee to the end of the line to break the flow. Install the tee so the there is a horizontal run that is at sump level where air can escape but ownt splash.

Got it, makes total sense. I didn't figure bubbles would be inclined to travel upstream as it were. I'll definitely modify the output so it's not submerged as well.

[melev]

So Pete, tell me: Do you have to close all five valves in the manifold first, then turn off the main pump? I get how air would rise from the lower section to the upper pipe, but if the valves were left open, I would expect all the plumbing to drain completely and into the sump, leaving a big air pocket. Does the water fill the bottom section first while air goes out the upper pipe to the tank, minimizing the air going into the reactors? Or would it be better to turn the pump back on, then open the valves again, so the only air that would move into the reactors would be what little bit is in the tubing beneath each valve?

[psteeleb]

Originally posted by melev
So Pete, tell me: Do you have to close all five valves in the manifold first, then turn off the main pump? I get how air would rise from the lower section to the upper pipe, but if the valves were left open, I would expect all the plumbing to drain completely and into the sump, leaving a big air pocket. Does the water fill the bottom section first while air goes out the upper pipe to the tank, minimizing the air going into the reactors? Or would it be better to turn the pump back on, then open the valves again, so the only air that would move into the reactors would be what little bit is in the tubing beneath each valve?

the thought process is not to have to deal with the valves for a pump off/on. You right, there will be drain down to the sump level but providing an air path of lesser resistance and upward or outward will minimize the amount of air pushed into the reactors on a pump startup. Thus minimizing reactor burp.

His design will push the majority of the air up through the returns. Slow flow on the header will alow a lot of air in the header and reactors to also escape up to the returns as the header refills with water. Then with an escape path on the end of the header run most of the remaining air will go out the recirc line. The only residual air that should get to the reactors (if flow is slow enough) should be limited to the half inch tubing that feeds the reactors.

[HowieB]

Pete, can you throw up a pic from the front of the tank. Does the tank sit flush with the front of the wall or does is sit back behind the wall? and how did you trim it? Thanks

[drummereef]

Originally posted by HowieB
Pete, can you throw up a pic from the front of the tank. Does the tank sit flush with the front of the wall or does is sit back behind the wall? and how did you trim it? Thanks

He probably can't but I sure can. Who's tank is this anyway...


The front of the tank sits about 1/8" from the back side of the drywall on the viewing side of the tank. So in total about 5/8" from the viewing side, which is including the 1/2" drywall. If you look back on the first couple pages you'll see how the stand is framed under the front rim. There's a 2x6 directly under the front rim butted up to the back of the viewing side drywall. I haven't trimmed it out yet. I'm still plumbing and want to do some fresh water tests to see if it holds water first.

[H.Veras]

brett how is the plumbing coming along.. we need a few more pictures for update.... pictures plz..

[jmadison]

PPPPPPPPhhhhhhhhhhhhewwwwwwww
Just read this entire thread! Fantastic craftsmanship and thoughtfulness in this build.
I just got my AGA 180 today. Wouldve prefered the Oceanic with the corner overflows, but for the 60% off retail deal I got... well thats a lot of nice coral instead ! Needless to say, I will be stealing many of your ideas for plumbing and probably will end up with a sump resembling that of yours!

+1 subscriber!!!

Oh btw, what are your plans for addressing the glass on the back(fishroom) side of the tank?

[drummereef]

Originally posted by H.Veras
brett how is the plumbing coming along.. we need a few more pictures for update.... pictures plz..

I should have some updated pics next week. I still need to pick up a hole saw for the 3 bulkheads in the sump. Once I get them drilled I'll finish the plumbing and post some pics.

[drummereef]

Originally posted by jmadison
PPPPPPPPhhhhhhhhhhhhewwwwwwww
Just read this entire thread! Fantastic craftsmanship and thoughtfulness in this build.
I just got my AGA 180 today. Wouldve prefered the Oceanic with the corner overflows, but for the 60% off retail deal I got... well thats a lot of nice coral instead ! Needless to say, I will be stealing many of your ideas for plumbing and probably will end up with a sump resembling that of yours!

+1 subscriber!!!

Oh btw, what are your plans for addressing the glass on the back(fishroom) side of the tank?

Sounds like a great deal to me. I appreciate the kind words. I'm planning on using Coroplast plastic sheet on the back. That way I can remove it when I'm cleaning or need to see behind the aquascape. Should be updating soon so stick around.

[drummereef]

Placed another order with Savco... A GF ball valve for the recirc line, some clear primer, and a can of clear flex pvc glue. Should be here Wednesday. Still need to pick up a couple hole saws for the sump too. Man I got a lot to do... Kind of frustrating I can't get clear primer locally, only the purple stuff. Don't the big box stores know us reefers need to get our plumbing done?