Microbubbles are ruining a My dreamtank

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 07:30 PM

I have been waging war on some microbubbles for about 3 weeks now and am almost about to give up.

The steps i have taken to try and elimante them are
4 baffles
filterpads rock rubble inbetween the baffles
Sealing all the pipes

I got rid of all the bubbles in sump but there are still a ton in the display. Where can cavitataion occur if all the pipes are sealed (except on the pump). Also the tank has been running for 2 months.

help with the bubbles!!!
*pump is 250 pandworld @ 2,000gph
pics

plz forgive me ;i'm in the process of refinishing the stand

gvibes · 05/11/2006, 07:43 PM

Maybe try a (lot) smaller pump.

2000 gph sounds like a metric arseload for a return. For a 75, I would be looking for <500 gph on the return.

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 07:47 PM

gvibes i use a mag 12 on my 75 so i dont think thats it. Overflows are keeping up fine and i need all the flow i can get for an sps tank.

ZURCSREEF · 05/11/2006, 07:48 PM

That doesn't look like a 75 gallon tank, looks alot bigger, and the way he is running his returns pvc looks like he needs alot more than 2000gph, I would suggest redoing your plumbing without all the elbows and turns, you are probably getting air into on of them and thats whats causing your microbubbles... and also, I wasn't able to see, but are your returns fully under water or are they above the water? If thats the case, that also can be causing the bubbles, put them 100% under the water line...

sjm817 · 05/11/2006, 07:50 PM

Huge return pumps are microbubble machines.

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 07:52 PM

its a 180 and the general rule fo the thumb is 10x turnover through the sump. So the skimmer is rated at 1,300 gph so why not take advantage of it

omni2226 · 05/11/2006, 07:53 PM

Ummm... you need mega flow in the main display....not going into the sump/return....sump return just enough to keep the skimmer working hard.

Smaller pump for the return and use the big boy pump on a closed loop.

sjm817 · 05/11/2006, 07:54 PM

General rule is 3 -5X display volume. That would be 540 - 900 GPH. That is return pump flow, and I would not go 900 GPH unless you have a big sump.

Balance of return flow from closed loops or powerheads.

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 07:54 PM

tank isn't drilled and i plan on using tunzes

omni2226 · 05/11/2006, 07:55 PM

Ya 10 x is good but you might can get by with 5 or 6 with a closed loop and a good skimmer.

Just tossing ideas out.

Kaiser Tang · 05/11/2006, 07:57 PM

Hey, don't sweat microbubbles. I can tell you that rock and baffles are no the best way to get rid of those bubbles. The best way to get multiple solutions is to do a search on "microbubbles". You'll get tons of ideas. Many people have this problem (including myself at one point in time).

For staters, get rid of the bubbles where the water drains into your sump. You can put a foam filter over the outlet or stick your outlet pipe in the middle 4" PVC. Drill holes in the bottom of the PVC. When the water comes down, it will go out the bottom of the PVC and the bubbles will float to the top and pop. Next put the inlet of your return pump in a remote corner of the sump. You may have to use PVC pip to reach where you need to. Most pumps you can screw in an attachment. Ontop of that you can put a foam filter over the inlet to the return pump. Better yet (like I have) put a wad of chaeto over the inlet. Kill phosphates and bubbles at the same time. Last, be patient. Your tank may still need time to settle down. It takes a while for a tank to find it's groove. Don't give up. 99% of this hobby is trial and error. You find something that works.

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 07:58 PM

sjm817 instead of shouting out of what u think is wrong. Care to add something useful to the conversation? I'm asking for help about things that i cant change I HAVE THIS PUMP. also with your calulator thants means on my 75 that i need 225gph coming from my sump....maybe i should go w/ a maxijet instead for this system?

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 08:00 PM

Kaiser Tang thanks for the idea on the 4in pipe sounds good will try it out this weekend
also i have done a few seraches on RC and i keep coming up with the same things i have tried

sjm817 · 05/11/2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by newreefman31
sjm817 instead of shouting out of what u think is wrong. Care to add something useful to the conversation? I'm asking for help about things that i cant change I HAVE THIS PUMP. also with your calulator thants means on my 75 that i need 225gph coming from my sump....maybe i should go w/ a maxijet instead for this system?

The problem is too big a return pump. Is there some reason I should not say that? I gave suggestions what the flow should be. There are tons of posts here of too big a return pump and the resulting problems it causes. Microbubbles are one of them.

Yes, you are correct. 225 GPH would be fine for a 75G. A Maxijet loses too much flow under headloss. If the sump were high enough, it would work. People use them.

I hope you get it fixed.

newreefman31 · 05/11/2006, 08:17 PM

sjm817 as i said before i dont think flow is a problem here is my case this 160 TOTM uses a red dragon 10,000L/H. thats a 2500gph pump on a 160st 15.25x an hour and not 1 microbubble

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...totm/index.php

dippin61 · 05/11/2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by newreefman31
sjm817 instead of shouting out of what u think is wrong. Care to add something useful to the conversation? I'm asking for help about things that i cant change I HAVE THIS PUMP. also with your calulator thants means on my 75 that i need 225gph coming from my sump....maybe i should go w/ a maxijet instead for this system?

i use a mj1200 for a return on my 55g.. sump is under tank.. and no the mj doesnt lose enough to return water...

had a mag 9.5 .. lots of bubbles, with my MJ not a single bubble, and my skimmer works alot better.

you shouldnt rely on a return pump for main tank flow. thats not what they are for.

neotekz · 05/11/2006, 09:55 PM

i don;t think your return pump is too big. i have a mag 7 on my 35g, that;s 20X and i don;t have a problem with bubbles. but i did have a lot of microbubbles when i first set it up too but they eventually stopped on it;s own when the tank and equipment was given time to build a coat of slime. i would just give it some time. also i wouldn;t put rock in the sump like that, if anything it will collect all the microbubbles into bigger ones and make things worst

05/11/2006, 07:30 PM	#1
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	Microbubbles are ruining a My dreamtank I have been waging war on some microbubbles for about 3 weeks now and am almost about to give up. The steps i have taken to try and elimante them are 4 baffles filterpads rock rubble inbetween the baffles Sealing all the pipes I got rid of all the bubbles in sump but there are still a ton in the display. Where can cavitataion occur if all the pipes are sealed (except on the pump). Also the tank has been running for 2 months. help with the bubbles!!! *pump is 250 pandworld @ 2,000gph pics plz forgive me ;i'm in the process of refinishing the stand

05/11/2006, 07:50 PM	#5
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Huge return pumps are microbubble machines. __________________ - Scott

05/11/2006, 07:53 PM	#7
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Ummm... you need mega flow in the main display....not going into the sump/return....sump return just enough to keep the skimmer working hard. Smaller pump for the return and use the big boy pump on a closed loop. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/11/2006, 07:54 PM	#8
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	General rule is 3 -5X display volume. That would be 540 - 900 GPH. That is return pump flow, and I would not go 900 GPH unless you have a big sump. Balance of return flow from closed loops or powerheads. __________________ - Scott

05/11/2006, 07:55 PM	#10
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Ya 10 x is good but you might can get by with 5 or 6 with a closed loop and a good skimmer. Just tossing ideas out. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/11/2006, 07:43 PM	#2
gvibes Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 239	Maybe try a (lot) smaller pump. 2000 gph sounds like a metric arseload for a return. For a 75, I would be looking for <500 gph on the return.

05/11/2006, 07:47 PM	#3
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	gvibes i use a mag 12 on my 75 so i dont think thats it. Overflows are keeping up fine and i need all the flow i can get for an sps tank.

05/11/2006, 07:48 PM	#4
ZURCSREEF Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Posts: 2,347	That doesn't look like a 75 gallon tank, looks alot bigger, and the way he is running his returns pvc looks like he needs alot more than 2000gph, I would suggest redoing your plumbing without all the elbows and turns, you are probably getting air into on of them and thats whats causing your microbubbles... and also, I wasn't able to see, but are your returns fully under water or are they above the water? If thats the case, that also can be causing the bubbles, put them 100% under the water line...

05/11/2006, 07:52 PM	#6
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	its a 180 and the general rule fo the thumb is 10x turnover through the sump. So the skimmer is rated at 1,300 gph so why not take advantage of it

05/11/2006, 07:57 PM	#11
Kaiser Tang Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 1,314	Hey, don't sweat microbubbles. I can tell you that rock and baffles are no the best way to get rid of those bubbles. The best way to get multiple solutions is to do a search on "microbubbles". You'll get tons of ideas. Many people have this problem (including myself at one point in time). For staters, get rid of the bubbles where the water drains into your sump. You can put a foam filter over the outlet or stick your outlet pipe in the middle 4" PVC. Drill holes in the bottom of the PVC. When the water comes down, it will go out the bottom of the PVC and the bubbles will float to the top and pop. Next put the inlet of your return pump in a remote corner of the sump. You may have to use PVC pip to reach where you need to. Most pumps you can screw in an attachment. Ontop of that you can put a foam filter over the inlet to the return pump. Better yet (like I have) put a wad of chaeto over the inlet. Kill phosphates and bubbles at the same time. Last, be patient. Your tank may still need time to settle down. It takes a while for a tank to find it's groove. Don't give up. 99% of this hobby is trial and error. You find something that works. __________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: Marineland 150 XH Reef w/ 55 AGA Sump, Oceans Motions Super Squirt, Ecotech Marine Vortech, Current Prime 1/3 hp Chiller, 200 lbs. LR, 175 lbs. LS, 800 watts PFO MH and 440 watts IceCap VHO. Softies, LPS, and Clams!

05/11/2006, 07:58 PM	#12
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	sjm817 instead of shouting out of what u think is wrong. Care to add something useful to the conversation? I'm asking for help about things that i cant change I HAVE THIS PUMP. also with your calulator thants means on my 75 that i need 225gph coming from my sump....maybe i should go w/ a maxijet instead for this system?

05/11/2006, 08:00 PM	#13
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	Kaiser Tang thanks for the idea on the 4in pipe sounds good will try it out this weekend also i have done a few seraches on RC and i keep coming up with the same things i have tried

05/11/2006, 08:17 PM	#15
newreefman31 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 357	sjm817 as i said before i dont think flow is a problem here is my case this 160 TOTM uses a red dragon 10,000L/H. thats a 2500gph pump on a 160st 15.25x an hour and not 1 microbubble http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...totm/index.php

05/11/2006, 09:55 PM	#17
neotekz Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: ottawa, Ontario Posts: 698	i don;t think your return pump is too big. i have a mag 7 on my 35g, that;s 20X and i don;t have a problem with bubbles. but i did have a lot of microbubbles when i first set it up too but they eventually stopped on it;s own when the tank and equipment was given time to build a coat of slime. i would just give it some time. also i wouldn;t put rock in the sump like that, if anything it will collect all the microbubbles into bigger ones and make things worst