AlgaeFix Marine to control Hair Algae

[bertoni]

It has some sort of chemical that is very toxic to some hair algae. I haven't heard of many coral problems associated with it. The MSDS lists the chemical, I believe.

[Space heater]

I thought I'd chip in my experience, and maybe someone can give me some guidance/advice with my current issue.

Background:
Tank has been running for 190 days, 170 with inhabitants. I went through the typical diatom/slime bloom that cleared up with waterchanges and manual removal. Around month 3 some hair algae started to appear. Admittedly I wasn't super proactive on getting it out of the tank. Since late December (about month 4) I started doing waterchanges every 3 or 4 days with lots of scrubbing, manual removal, etc. I added GFO and GAC near the end of January, and kept up the waterchanges and manual removal, but I was losing the battle, and the algae was literally growing back faster than I was removing it.

I started dosing Algae Fix in late February. I did a total of 10 doses, during which I did 5 waterchanges and scrubbed the rocks each time. I continued running GFO/GAC, and monitored parameters.

My water has been stable since December:
nitrate undetectable
phosphate undetectable
pH 7.9-8.2
Ca 420 (+/- ~10 ppm)
dKH 9
Mg 1360

Current inhabitants are 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 orange spotted goby, 1 scooter dragonette, 1 chalk basslet, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 emerald crab, a few hermits, and about 10 assorted snails. Corals are mostly SPS, with two zoa colonies, a small galaxia, small brain, and small pipe organ colony.

Tank is a 40 gallon long that I made into an AIO. It has a 30 gal display volume, 5.5 gallon fuge and 4.5 gallon sump. I run a hydor slim skim dialed in to skim wet and have a filter floss compartment separating the skimmer output from the equipment compartment. I replace the floss at least twice a week. Lights are a DIY LED setup with 4 NW, 16 RB, 4 UV, 4 blue, and 4 green. I have independent control for each channel, and for the last couple months I have been running the RB, blue and UV for 12 hours per day, with whites and green on for 8 hours, although they are running at about 50% the power that the shorter wavelength emitters are.

Here's what happened with Algae Fix:
For the first couple doses I saw no effect, and fish and corals appeared fine. Around the 3rd or 4th dose I noticed that the glass wasn't growing much film. At this point my skimmer had completely ceased to produce anything, so I pushed the collection cup all the way down. Around the 6th dose I quit scraping the glass, since it was completely clean. About the same time I noticed a significant decrease in the stomatella snail population, as in I haven't seen more than 2 or 3 and I used to have tons. Similarly, the patches of coraline that were growing on the back glass slowly faded and are now gone.

The hair algae literally grew faster throughout the Algae Fix dosing. The one caveat is that the algae has also shifted from green to brown, but it has gotten to the point that I can brush a rock clean one evening and the next morning there will be 1/4 inch of brown hair covering it the next morning.

I stopped dosing 5 days ago. Yesterday my skimmer has started producing again, and today the cup was completely full of dark tea colored skimmate. I did a waterchange the day after the last dose and removed and scrubbed the two worst offending rocks. The brown hair has grown back slightly, but I really have to look to see it now.

I believe that my particular type of hair algae was unaffected by Algae Fix, and was able to capitalize on the nutrients available when the other algaes were being killed off. I have decided to go back to manual removal and waterchanges. Tomorrow I am getting a beefed up CUC consisting of ~20 more hermits, ~20 more snails and a pincushion urchin.

Throughout this experience my nutrient levels never fluctuated significantly, and my SPS corals grew very well. In fact other than the decrease in stomatellas there were no signs of stress in any of the inhabitants. I'm pretty sure that Algae Fix would have worked great if my particular hair algae pest was vulnerable to its effects. In my particular case, however, it seems to have made the problem worse.

[bertoni]

I agree that the hair alga in your tank might be resistant to AlgaeFix. I'm skeptical about adding more snails and hermits because I don't think they'll attack the hair algae. There are a lot of urchins, and the one you get might eat the alga, but I don't know enough about them to say what the odds are.

[Space heater]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I agree that the hair alga in your tank might be resistant to AlgaeFix. I'm skeptical about adding more snails and hermits because I don't think they'll attack the hair algae. There are a lot of urchins, and the one you get might eat the alga, but I don't know enough about them to say what the odds are.

This is my last resort before going to DEFCON 1, removing the rocks a few at a time and cooking them in HCl. The algae problem is accelerating despite my attempting all the normal remedies. I use RODI with TDS 0, reef crystals salt that tests 0 for nitrate and phosphate when newly mixed, and feed sparingly. I thaw 1 cube of frozen mysis and 1 of either MegaMarine or krill per week and feed them in small amounts over the course of the week. I usually wind up throwing about 1/4 of the food away because it starts to get cloudy or smelly before it's gone. I have powerheads behind the rocks and vacuum the sump at each waterchange. I have 2 rw-4's running in else mode. With these going the surface of the sand is constantly shifting, not blowing around but throughout the tank the surface has a few grains constarnly wiggling or rolling around. There is almost no detritus buildup that I can find.

I know that the CUC won't magically get rid of the algae, but if they are able to get it off the rocks into the water column, either by knocking it loose or by making it into poop, then I can get rid of it with filtration and water changes. Otherwise I'm going to acid wash the rocks and start over. I'm not going to wait until it gets to the point of killing corals or driving me out of the hobby.

[bertoni]

You could try more GFO, I guess, but that only works part of the time. How much live rock is in the system? I'm completely sure how big those cubes are, but the amount of food seems fairly reasonable to me.

[Patrick Cox]

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

Wow.

I like your results.

How often do you Dose?

Is it Daily?

Are you following the Instructions on the Bottle?

I just ordered some!

Hi,
Yes, I did follow the bottle instructions. I dosed the recommended amount for my volume of water every 3 days. I still see very slight evidence on some of the rocks where the GHA was and I am trying to decide if I can now stop dosing or if I should continue for another week or so to ensure it is really dead. Good luck.

[Space heater]

Originally Posted by bertoni

You could try more GFO, I guess, but that only works part of the time. How much live rock is in the system? I'm completely sure how big those cubes are, but the amount of food seems fairly reasonable to me.

I started with dry rock, about 24 lbs over very light, porus mix, plus ~5 lbs of live rock in the sump to get the cycle started.

With this last waterchange I did up the GFO from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup. I change it about every 2 weeks because I'm running GAC in the same reactor. Since the phosphate is always undetectable, both before and after GFO I can't really tell when it's spent.

The cubes are on the smaller side. I would say 1/2x3/4". Everything gets eaten each time I feed in about 30 seconds to one minute. The hermits and pistol shrimp clean up any little bits that make it to the sand bed.

[bertoni]

I'd consider adding another 20 lbs of rock. Curing it separately first would be safest. That's a very small amount of rock for that bio-load, in my opinion.

[Space heater]

Small update:

My tank is looking better every day since ending Algae Fix dosing. With the large CUC the hair algae is disappearing (being consumed). I have also noticed an increase of algae on the front glass, but that's snail food. My skimmer is now skimming too wet, and I had to raise the collection cup to keep it from overflowing in 24 hours. Tonight I registered nitrates for the first time since the cycle completed, which I take to be a good sign. Phosphates are still undetectable, but I changed the GFO on Sunday when I did a w/c.

I understand that it has been a very short time since I stopped dosing, but the changes are fairly drastic. Going forward I would absolutely try Algae Fix again if things got out of control, however I think that in my particular case the problem was an inadequate CUC. I needed more herbivores to turn the algae into poo which could be captured by the skimmer and filter.

I am expecting some die-off in the new CUC as the system reaches equilibrium, however with diligent maintenance I think I can stay on top of it.

Edit: As far as rock goes, I have at least 35, probably more like 40 lbs in a total system volume of around 35 gallons. Adding 20 more lbs would fill all the open space. I'm sure that adding more would do nothing to combat my algae issues, as I've seen plenty of tanks well below 1 lb/gal that are algae free.

[Principal_P]

I just gave my first dose today. I have been trying everything for months and don't know what else to do. I started reading through this thread this morning, and even thought it was started several years ago, I haven't found anything else out there to try. I thought I was making a dent until I noticed a rock that I had taken out about 6 weeks ago and bleached is now covered in tiny hair sprouts. Someone mentioned to me that GFO can exhaust in hours if the phosphate is excessive. My corals are growing well, so I don't think that it is. Maybe it's narrow minded, but I don't want to spend another $75 for a phosphate checker to tell me I have high phosphate. I'm growing hair algae like its a cash crop...I'd rather spend $13 for AlgaeFix and see if I can get the results that everyone else is getting.

BTW: I have a 75g tank mixed with softies, anenomes, lps, and a small bio load of fish

[Principal_P]

I dosed steadily (every 3 days) for about a month, and for a month I have not used the stuff. In that same time frame I've done 3 - 25 gallon water changes. One just before the treatment, one after a month of treatment, and the third one after a month of no treatment. After all that I've been through trying to get rid of the HA, I can HAPPILY declare my tank rid of HA!

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by Principal_P

I dosed steadily (every 3 days) for about a month, and for a month I have not used the stuff. In that same time frame I've done 3 - 25 gallon water changes. One just before the treatment, one after a month of treatment, and the third one after a month of no treatment. After all that I've been through trying to get rid of the HA, I can HAPPILY declare my tank rid of HA!

How large is the tank system - total water volume

[Principal_P]

I have a 75g tank mixed with softies, anenomes, lps, and a small bio load of fish.

If you look at the post just previous you can see how long ago I actually started.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by Principal_P

I dosed steadily (every 3 days) for about a month, and for a month I have not used the stuff. In that same time frame I've done 3 - 25 gallon water changes. One just before the treatment, one after a month of treatment, and the third one after a month of no treatment. After all that I've been through trying to get rid of the HA, I can HAPPILY declare my tank rid of HA!

Awesome!

For me it didn't Kill the Hair Algae but it Weakened / Killed the Main Problem which was Red Dictoya Macro Algae.

The Zoanthid Plugs in this Tank were covered in it for a Long Time.

I didn't even see any Polyps on Most of the Frag Plugs.

After Using AlgaeFix a Few Times it Peeled Right off the Plug Very Easily.

To my Amazement most of the Zoanthids were Fine and Look Healthy Now!

As for the Hair Algae I put in 10 Tiger Trochus Snails and they Took Care of all that!

Now the Tank is Algae Free and everything Looks Great.

[Buzz1329]

Agree with you about the CUC. I have tried snails, hermit crabs, emerald crabs, tangs, urchins,

Originally Posted by bertoni

I agree that the hair alga in your tank might be resistant to AlgaeFix. I'm skeptical about adding more snails and hermits because I don't think they'll attack the hair algae. There are a lot of urchins, and the one you get might eat the alga, but I don't know enough about them to say what the odds are.

Agree with you about the CUCs. Over the years, I have tried unsuccessfully to control GHA in my tanks with snails (I’ve tried them all, including the vaunted Mexican Turbo Snails), hermit crabs (which are good for keeping snail population in check), emerald crabs (which are good for keeping LPS polyps in check), tuxedo urchins, etc., but none of them would eat filamentous algae. The only inverts that did were Dola Bella Sea Hares but, oddly enough, while they would consume mass quantities of filamentous algae growing on a horizontal surface (like on substrate), they would not touch the same type of algae growing vertically on rocks. Go figure.

[ostrow]

Or, you may have a terrible species like I did that consumes the algecide seemingly. The algae I had killed dolabellas (after they are a bunch) and most Snails that ate it. Ditto emerald crabs. And I mean, I watched them easy on Tuesday and saw them belt up Wednesday.

Some plagues you just won't kick. In my frustration above I called it snake oil but clearly the product works on some pests. But what we call "hair algae" or GHA is a misnomer....there are many, many species.

I sent mine to Guam and the ID was new to me, the diagnosis was "you are never going to eradicate this stuff."

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[godless]

Hello,
i had a "huge algae" problem wichi actually is turning into a "algae" problem.
Background: everything was running good with the tank free of algae untile february. My aquarium is a Dennerle 60 Liters with 12kg of live rocks.
In february i was having issues with flatworms (white ones) and i used Flatworm exit to kill them. After 3 dosing of FE i didn't achieve to kill all flatworms according to the doses so i stupidly put into the tank the whole residual flatworm exit.
After a couple of days my tank was destroied. All zooplancton died and most of the bacteria too. I had a peak in no2 and then raised no3 and po4. After a couple weeks i had my tank fully covered with air algae.
I started dosing firstly another product (Fauna Marin Ultra Algae X) then i started dosing a week ago APIFIX Marine AF. I noticed that AF started to whiten the algae and the green ones are easier to pull out of the tank. I'm at the third dose. I was wondering now how to collect the weakened algae at the moment since they are short and i cannot take them off from the tank...
Do you advice to use a toothbrush? if so, wouldn't be dangerous to spread the algae again into tank? again, they come off very easily but i cannot reach many of them....
advices on this? do i just go on with the AF dosing and wait them to peel off by themselves?
I am also using PO4 resins and zeolite. Skimmer on.
Thanks in advance for all your replies.

[bertoni]

A toothbrush would be fine if you get siphon out or otherwise remove the debris. If you can't remove the dead algae, brushing it might help with the looks, but I am not convinced it'll kill the algae faster.

[Mikefromaz]

I promised myself to collect as much info from other reefers with similar observations about Marine Algaefix before commenting. First of all.this API product worked amazingly well go kill HA. I followed the dosing procedures to the letter and got good results. That being said about ten days into the process my otherwise well maintained reef broke out in a hideous case of dinoflagellates. It was bad. I immediately lost three corals and about 20 snails. I suspected the change in my tank was caused by overkill of micro algae and fauna by this algae killer. I read more than a couple of posts in the dino thread from other reefers who had the same experience. There is ALWAYS competition in the reef between "good" and harmful lifeforms. It is my opinion that Marine Algaefix disturbed that balance and handed the di oflaggelates the opportunity for lack of competition to run wild, which they did. Comments or opinions?

[bertoni]

It's possible that the AlgaeFix bumped the system from one local optimum (or stable point) to another, although more commonly, I think it kills off one part of the system entirely, leaving some nutrients free for other organisms to consume and grow.

[Mikefromaz]

[QUOTE=bertoni;23804063]It's possible that the AlgaeFix bumped the system from one local optimum (or stable point) to another, although more commonly, I think it kills off one part of the system entirely, leaving some nutrients free for other organisms to consume and grow.[/QUOTE/

I agree with your post 100% Two thngs seem certain to me. The dead algae whether visible or microscopic left a pile of nutrients behind. The other thing of course is the dinos free of competition spread like crazy on the dead stuff.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I'd consider adding another 20 lbs of rock. Curing it separately first would be safest. That's a very small amount of rock for that bio-load, in my opinion.

I would gradually replace the existing rock with dry reef rock for eg Florida key largo.
If phosphates are bound up in the rock it could refuel alga for a very long time

If you are not effective at removing the dead alge then it just continues to recirculate phosphates.
I use a canister filter with a micro filter to remove alge while treating for it

[jason2459]

I can confirm PO4 release from at least pukani dry rock can last a good year or so. Fun times.

[Threshold]

I have only read a few pages of posts -- so forgive me for not reading everything before asking this...

I am concerned about my chaeto and my lettuce sea slug (aka lettuce nudibranch). Will they be okay if I use Algaefix? Or should I put them in a QT tank while the DT is being dosed?

[hkgar]

They will in all likelihood be goners if you don't QT them