live aquaria ships live stock cold, is that ok?

[CTaylor]

Hi,
I was wondering if it's standard to receive shipments (overnighted) in water in the 60's (even in summer). I had issues often where the coral was dead or 'sick' from the get go (coming out of the bag). The shipments are always cold -- ice packs usually ON the bags holding the coral (acros, usually). I always write them a note when I get the shipment that again the shipping water was in the 60's (in case I need to make a claim). I like them overall for their customer service -- can not beat it for livestock. But I'm not sure if I should be frustrated about the shipping practices, or just accept that sometimes the coral will be DOA or soon after.
Again, overall I keep shopping there, so I do like them the best.

Thanks

[squeakymcmurdo]

Cooler temperatures than what an animal is accustomed to causes metabolism to slow down, which reduces waste in the water and keeps fish calm. I don't know about coral, but probably also true and what LiveAquaria is trying to do.

65 sounds about right for 70-80 degree creatures. I might also be concerned if it were lower than that though.

[Lsufan]

I get fish all the time from them but never coral. They do put heat packs in with the fish & the temp is usually higher then what u describe. Maybe they treat corals differently. Do they have heat packs & it still gets that cool or do they not have heat packs in the packaging, or u talking about the summer & ice packs cooling them that much. In the summer the ice packs are always warm when I receive them so they don't do much for me, but I'm in Louisiana & it's hot in the summer

[heathlindner25]

I'm in Georgia and it's hot as hell ,Where do you live where the water gets in the sixties ?

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

I'm in Georgia and it's hot as hell ,Where do you live where the water gets in the sixties ?

I think his water get to sixties because of the ice packs.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I've bought thousands of dollars of livestock from divers den and have yet to have a problem or any losses. They seem to know what they're doing. Yes, sometimes the shipment arrives cold but I'm assuming it's on purpose.

[CTaylor]

the water gets very cold b/c of the ice ON the bag. I do not think they should put ice in the box, but maybe a tiny bit securely tapes the top fo the box b/c I open the box at 930 am after it being shipped 5 pm overnight. it's in a styro box. So in my optionion, very little chance for getting hot, again at night time in shipping. It's not just sometimes cold, it's every time. This time I'm pretty sure it was lower 60's in the bag water, as it was colder to the touch than the time it was 67 (corals eventually died then -- slow death from the start). The last shipment was about 70, and the large acro did totally fine. But lower 60's I think is just too low.. and the to acclimate it back up to 78. THis coral has no polyps out yet. The bag water was very cloudy, but not milky. So I"m concerened.. ANd it was a $400 piece.. at least I got it on a mark down, but still I dont like having a coral killed. Hopefully it won't be.

Der_wille: That's amazing to me you have had zero losses. I have had about 25% (more??) dead in the bag, upon opening the UPS box, which has no wait time at my door, as I'm home when UPS drops it off. Though those 25% have been all acroporas. I'm assuming you have also ordered acros? and no losses? If so,then i'm totally unlucky. B/c one could say it is ME, but again, they have come in on delivery totally DOA. BUT not just from them. It's hit or miss with any livestock seller (in my own experience). For instance, with exteme corals, I can not get a hammer to arrive alive either.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

My last 2 orders comprised maybe 8 or 10 acro colonies total. All fine. The most recent got here yesterday, no ice, water temps were maybe mid 60's. The one prior was a few weeks ago, it was in the 90's here. There were ice bags in the styro box, temps also in the 60's, all corals were healthy.

I guess the good news in your case is that they have pretty much the best guarantee in the industry by a large margin.

[CTaylor]

i 100% agree on their guarantee and service. I just dont understand why I have received a fair amount DOA and you have 0.
*where are you that the water temp in the box was in the 60's and no ice?

It's 88 degrees here 930 am on box delivery. I'm sure if there was 1/4 the ice in the box it would be about 78-80 in the shimpment.. and almost acclimated already to my tank.

I also know UPS has mishandled at least a few of my past packages from LA..only because I seen them do it in front of my face (which woudl account for the ice resting on the corals, and not taped still to the syrofoam top).

[Ron Reefman]

IMHO, Live Aquaria and Divers Den have gone down hill since PetCo bought them out. Their selection of coral is more ordinary, I've had to use the guarantee more often lately and now they have lowered the minimum order to get free shipping and then raised all their prices.

They still stand by the guarantee, but recently I've bought from 2 other suppliers and everything arrived 100% healthy. I used to be a big supporter, but my opinion of them is going down hill.

[JWClark]

Note that Diver's Den and Live aquaria are different in this respect. Divers Den I have never had an issue with and the cold packs are taped to the lid. Live aquaria I always get DOA fish from cold packs on the bags in summer. I just don't order from the live aquaria site in the summer time anymore. Fish in fall, and spring are fine (never ordered in winter).

Have had DOA fish due to cold water 2 yrs in a row from Live Aquaria in the summer. The last time I know they put ice in a bag then put this on top of the fish. When I got the package the bag was empty and everything was cold and wet--and there was no cold pack. The guy on the phone stated they never use ice and that the shipper may have opened and put some ice in. He said this was a case where he was actually stumped. My guess is the left hand knows not what the right hand does. Had 4 fish in that order, all chilled to death.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

OK- to be fair I was lumping DD and LA together. My recent orders were all from DD. I'm in NY. I haven't ordered from LA in probably 6 or 8 years but never had issues with them either.

I'm surprised by the differences in our experiences too. I haven't even been home for my last few orders, they'll get delivered around 11 or 12 and then sit on my porch until 8 pm when I'm arriving home.

Ron, I'd be curious to know where else. You're shopping. I use DD for the consistent quality and WYSIWYG. I don't need high end corals, just want something that looks nice and is healthy and I want to pick it myself.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Ron, I'd be curious to know where else. You're shopping. .

Last time I was picking through Rons trash I noticed hes been shopping at Cultivated Reef lately..

[MuShu]

Originally Posted by CTaylor

i 100% agree on their guarantee and service. I just dont understand why I have received a fair amount DOA and you have 0.
*where are you that the water temp in the box was in the 60's and no ice?

It's 88 degrees here 930 am on box delivery. I'm sure if there was 1/4 the ice in the box it would be about 78-80 in the shimpment.. and almost acclimated already to my tank.

I also know UPS has mishandled at least a few of my past packages from LA..only because I seen them do it in front of my face (which woudl account for the ice resting on the corals, and not taped still to the syrofoam top).

I would bet it's the handling. I just got a few shipments from them and the ice pack was either taped to the top of the cooler, or the ice pack was under a layer of packing peanuts. I could see how rough handling would cause the ice packs to shift.

Maybe make a note or call them with the next order that you suspect rough handling and ask them to either use another carrier or take additional precautions.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Last time I was picking through Rons trash I noticed hes been shopping at Cultivated Reef lately..

You are right, I really like Cultivated Reef. Recently I've also used KP Aquatics and Strictly Fish (which they aren't) and VIP Reef. Good results from all of them!

mcgyvr, soon I'll get the chance to pick through your garbage, I'll be in SC for the total eclipse in 2 weeks!

[CTaylor]

I thought DD was Diver's Den (from LA) lol. Who is DD???
Yes.. I need to actualy call with my next order. Actually already made one with LA. I'm hooked on ordering from them. Since the stuff that lives (which is most lately) is really nice, and i like their selection, which is always updating.
**I think my coral in question I just got (the "$400 one" ... that I got for $300 on sale).. a strawberry shortcake, has the very start of polyp extension. I can't be sure, as it's just the start of the tips of them. It's stressed me the whole weekend, so hopefully this will end happy.
BTW, only one time did LA question my return, as in requiring proof of a dead coral. That was after several back to back DOA's. WHich is totally understandable. They have been top notch in their customer service. I really like them, so I don't want this post to taint them in any way.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I did mean Diver's Den when I said DD. But as noted above they are more or less different businesses shipping from different locations.

Ron, I've ordered a few times from KP. I like the Caribbean focus they have, they're the only place I can find to get some of that stuff.

[CTaylor]

i received another coral package this morning. I tested the water (it was cool, not cold) .. 72 degrees, which I can accept lol. The ice was securely taped to the inside top of box. (I emailed them before shipping).
90 mins later: acro in the tank, and polyps already extended.
The acro I received late last week (the shortcake) still no clear polyp extension. I'm afraid it actually will not happen with that one.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Can you share a photo? If it was a DD purchase, did it show PE in the photo? IME some acros just never get much extension. At any rate, this far in, it may be something in your system (lighting, flow) versus handling during delivery.

Edit to say I hope this doesn't come off as down talking, just trying to think out loud about your coral.

[chgoblknazn]

I've usually had the best luck with DD purchases, which come from Rhinelander, Wisconsin. The packs are always taped to the styro lid and the boxes are impeccably packed.

I've had issues with the Live Aquaria stuff out of California though. I stopped purchasing from LA because of this.

[CTaylor]

I know what you're saying as far as water flow, lighting, etc. But in my experience, I have always placed the acro in a low/medium light area with good flow when I first place in the tank. And either immediately or within a few days they have all gotten PE. My brand new one had it 1 mins after putting in the tank. I will shift the shortcake to a lower /different area to change it up. But I'm having lower hopes.
**I have learned to purchase only corals that I see PE in the pics online first . The Shortcake was HAIRY!

[CTaylor]

Hey Chgo,
Thanks for that! This last ship came from WI!!
I don't know where the shortcake came from.
If the shortcake doesnt make it, I really think that UPS shoudl be responsible since they misshandle the packages. I should take a video of them next time they deliver so I have proof of them flipping over the boxes (that clearly say "Live Anmials" "this end up" etc).

[chgoblknazn]

Originally Posted by CTaylor

Hey Chgo,
Thanks for that! This last ship came from WI!!
I don't know where the shortcake came from.
If the shortcake doesnt make it, I really think that UPS shoudl be responsible since they misshandle the packages. I should take a video of them next time they deliver so I have proof of them flipping over the boxes (that clearly say "Live Anmials" "this end up" etc).

The corals typically come from Rhinelander, which is where I will be on Saturday for their open house. I'm up there at least once a year to hang out with the staff and shop. That place is run like a hospital and the team takes great pride in what they do there.

Within the last month, I've placed 2 orders with the last order being 3 SPS corals and 2 clams. The corals came from Rhinelander and the clams arrived from Live Aquaria, which I believe is drop-shipped by Quality Marine out of California. The corals came in perfectly packed and protected using a plastic cup and styro inside three heavy gauge plastic bags with the light blocking band surrounding most of the bag. The clams arrived separately from California. The clams were stressed with the deresa having aiptasia on the shell. The maxima was under an inch and had no business being sold, as it was too fragile. Both clams perished but the corals are doing fine.

The order I placed a week prior was from WI and contained 2 acro crabs and a fish. Everything arrived alive, but the crabs perished within a couple days. I suspect my deepwater candy basslet may have ambushed both and had it's way with them. The fish did not make it 24 hours and had no business being sold. It couldn't balance in the bag and never recovered once put into the QT tank. I can't imagine it was fine when it was bagged at the facility. DD credited my account for all of the losses, even though I let them know the crab killings might not have been natural deaths.

I've never had a shipment that was too warm or cold, but I don't typically place orders when weather is extreme. I can't remember a time when the DD orders arrived at my office or at UPS/FedEx with the heat or cold pack NOT taped to the lid. The only issues with shipping for me have been those fulfilled out of California.