My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

That's quite a low ph swing but it doesn't really make sense. I suspect the probe is off.

I have to check the probe, since I am highly suspicious something is wrong with it, or where it is placed.
I did check the Apex and Temp Compensation was not ticked off, and compared to temp, graph of PH was following TEMP almost perfectly.

Certainly will do a re-calibration.

Maybe also check the Airline coming from outside since it did wonders to PH when I first hooked it up.

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

And that is EXACTLY what I just did.

I trimmed all the corals with Burnt Tips.

Put the really bad ones into Frag Tank.

Put a couple in the back (out of view) to heal.

And I mounted Good Frags from DT Frag Rack, onto Rocks.

I can now look at my tank and not think it's rotting, and needs fix.

Fresh after fixes, photo, for Future Reference. (No New Frags, only what I had in DT, so All acclimatized Frags)



Also if something does go wrong on any Frag, I will notice.


KIND OF A "Fresh Start (Healthiest Frags) with Scrubber Running and Tank Stable" BUT with no new Frags to Experiment with (except the Forest Fire).

Onward.....

Again

Originally Posted by Wally.B

But I agree with both of you. Leave it a alone, (leave both alone). Something is much better in Frag tank than in DT.
Maybe lack of my hands (No Tinkering/Stability).

I say you are on the right track with above...
Don't do a test, it'll give you something to pull hair out probably for no reason..
You are doing auto water changes aren't you?
Wally, let's just watch the tanks for a while..

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Also, the photos on this page are very good!
I like the borders (not orders!) and 3D detail as well!

Yes, I discovered that (Border Edge Feature) in my SnagIt program recently.
I think most Photo Editors have it.



I will only use it for special photos.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I say you are on the right track with above...
Don't do a test, it'll give you something to pull hair out probably for no reason..
You are doing auto water changes aren't you?
Wally, let's just watch the tanks for a while..

ok. No LAB water test for now.

However, I didn't do many water changes (2 tops). Since summer has been to busy to maintain all 3 systems (Kitchen Tank, SPS Tank, Frag Tank).
I've been just dumping Frag DT water changes down the drain.

So am a bit worried to start WC in FT since if DT water has something bad, it might ruin the Frag Tank.

Perhaps just doing a normal Fresh Salt Mix 10-20% Water WC in Frag Tank.

All I have been doing in Frag Tank is maybe like once a week, a bit of Reef Roids, and a squirt of Reef Nutrtion Osyster Feast. Nothing else since only just over 20Gallons water total.

[Wally.B]

But I will note:

The circulation improvement (re-programming) to push Particulate down the Overflow is already noticeable with water clearing up. Even after 1 day.

And the fact that I am moving tank Water (Clockwise, Counter Clockwise, and mix in between) looks promising.
Whole tank is getting more proper circulation all over.
Strong, but not Sharp Currents. Further reaching, into ever area of tank.

The little bit of sand Bed that I couldn't get from under the rocks is coming out to the edges, so that means currents are reaching under rocks.

I am happy with this last change.

[reefmutt]

ok.. you mentioned frag tank was getting wc water from dt.
Something right is happening in frag tank- despite the numbers.
All I'm really trying to say is don't change anything. Stop doing stuff..
Like Ed said, just do the basics and observe..
10% wcs a week is fine.
Just watch for a while.
The feeding seems fine.
That new flow seems great. Leave it now..

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I say you are on the right track with above...
Don't do a test, it'll give you something to pull hair out probably for no reason..
You are doing auto water changes aren't you?
Wally, let's just watch the tanks for a while..

Small correction.

Yes, I am doing Auto Water Changes on DT (5% twice a week).

My point above is I haven't been using them (DT water) in Frag Tank EVERY TIME.

[Wally.B]

ok.

TIME FOR A (No-Touch Promise) like last time.

No changes, No touch (*SPS TANK*):

Except: Water Changes, Cleaning Scrubber, Skimmer and Scrubber.
No Additives: Except a touch of Reef Roids, OsterFeast once a week [After N drops].
No lighting changes.

Till Christmas.

That will be Approx 3 months.

To keep my hands busy, I'm going to finish up my Commodore Amiga Computer Rebuild/Restore Project.
I have a major thread on the Amiga Forums that I stared Early this year. It needs to be finished (75% completed)

[Wally.B]

ANOTHER PROJECT to Keep me out of SPS Tank.

I need to rid my Mixed/LPS Kitchen tank of Ick and Save the Power Brown Tang.

That means catching all fish, and doing Tank Transfer Method, then run tank Fallow.

Ton of work, depending how things go!!

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

Small correction.

Yes, I am doing Auto Water Changes on DT (5% twice a week).

My point above is I haven't been using them (DT water) in Frag Tank EVERY TIME.

Got it.. so don't change the current routine..

And if I catch you messing with things, we'll have to lock you in the supplement box!
That commodore project sounds... busy! I like it!

Fwiw, even if you eradicate ich from your softy tank, it will only last as long as the addition of a new fish..
personally, not sure it is worth the disruption, time and stress to you and fish hat a full fish removal and qt.. I'd bet it'll kill the powder brown..
Have you gotten your spectrum pellets yet?

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Fwiw, even if you eradicate ich from your softy tank, it will only last as long as the addition of a new fish..
personally, not sure it is worth the disruption, time and stress to you and fish hat a full fish removal and qt.. I'd bet it'll kill the powder brown..
Have you gotten your spectrum pellets yet?

You are right. Catch and remove is Last Resort.
Big Als just called, and I'm on way to pick up Medi Pellets.
Hoping that works. Plus Tang just learned to Eat the Frozen BrineShrimp Gut loaded with spirulina (much more nourishing) .

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

And if I catch you messing with things, we'll have to lock you in the supplement box!

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

Lol!
I had no idea you were so small, Wally!

[Wally.B]

ICH SHIELD (Treatment) Started

So I brought the Medicated New Life Spectrum Ick Sheild Pellets home.

It they work it will be worth every Penny.
Actually to be mathematically correct 46,000 Pennies after Tax.

The Jar is pretty fancy looking.



But I didn't pay for the jar.

Lots of interesting Ingredients you don't normally see in Fish Food (I highlighted a few that caught my attention):

Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill, Garlic, Whole Wheat Flour, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Spirulina, Chlorella Algae,
Ulva Seaweed, Ginger, Ginseng, Onion, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Cardamom, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement
Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Hydrochloride,Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, , L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate Vitamin C)
Choline Chloride, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, and Manganese Sulfate.
Active Ingredients: I,4-Pentanediamine, N4-(7-chloro-4-quinolinyl)-NI,NI-diethyl


The instruction are pretty clear this is not for Corals, Anemones, etc.

I turned off all circulation to ensure no pellet scattering.
I have to drop more than one Pellet to get Tangs attention.

The GOOD NEWS is the Power Tang ate a bunch right way!!!

The other Kind of Good News is a couple Pellets got by, and the fell on the Green Paly's right under the feeding station (I have not way to avoid this without risking other areas where LPS Corals, Acans, Richordia's or High End Zoa's are)
Will be interesting to see what happens to the Green Palys.
I would like to get rid of them in certain areas.
Could be two birds with one stone. We'll see how they react. They didn't go after the pellet like other food, but they eventually closed up (and trapped the loose pellet )

The Bad News is Chromis Fish are not interested. Not sure about the Algae Blenny since he wasn't around (He's a pig and will eat anything)..
Cleaner Shrimp took one.

Hunger will change the Chromis eating issue. Nothing will be fed except a few sparse pellets, twice a day.

[Wally.B]

Frag from Frag Tank (Reference Photo) For Future Compares.

At least it survived overnight going into DT. Pop the Champagne, it 1st day Transfer Anniversary .

And is showing PE, so DT must not be terrible change (P much Lower, N Higher).



Over time we'll see how it goes in both places.

Update on the Tiny Frags I put into my MIXED LPS Tank a while ago.
One Acro Bleached. One went brown, not growing but has PE. One the Bird of Paradise has outlive the one in SPS tank, and doing very well.

[Wally.B]

Day 0 (Ich Guard Medicated Pellet) Treatment

Too bad I never thought of taking Photo before I started Treatment.

He has eaten The Pellets Twice.
Then I fed him some Frozen.

Maybe I'm having hallucinations, but he has changed.
Not cured, but different.

(Looks way worse that earlier today before treatment. Blochy Spots as seen below versus the tiny pinpoint white spots I saw earlier. That may be healthy Mucus)
(The blochy spots are flat, vs the raised tiny spots before)

WAY Too early to tell.



I will be watching daily, and taking photo's of any changes.

[reefmutt]

Ouch.. well, as long as he is eating there is hope.

[sensei]

Wally,

if you do not treat all fish in tank, ich will come back because of the nature and the life cycle of the parasite.
There should be ich cysts in the hard surfaces of that tank and rocks and cyst can hatch any time so sooner or later ich will show again. there is no easy cure.
you can read more in here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1992196

TTM is really easy to do, and it should not harm fish.
you only need 12 days and fish is cured from ich; tank needs 72 days fishless.
Ofcoarse, you need to be comitted to do TTM to any new fish to avoid introducing ich again.

the skin of Acanthurus and hippo tangs are among the thinest ones, they are ich magnets, that is why most of the are contaminated.

Urenoma is much worse.
Quarenting fish is a good practice.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by sensei

Wally,

if you do not treat all fish in tank, ich will come back because of the nature and the life cycle of the parasite.
There should be ich cysts in the hard surfaces of that tank and rocks and cyst can hatch any time so sooner or later ich will show again. there is no easy cure.
you can read more in here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1992196

TTM is really easy to do, and it should not harm fish.
you only need 12 days and fish is cured from ich; tank needs 72 days fishless.
Ofcoarse, you need to be comitted to do TTM to any new fish to avoid introducing ich again.

the skin of Acanthurus and hippo tangs are among the thinest ones, they are ich magnets, that is why most of the are contaminated.

Urenoma is much worse.
Quarenting fish is a good practice.

I know and understand everything you are saying.
I read that ich never goes away Ever, even if fish gets better.
I have to try the Meds.
I have no plans to add fish, if he survives.
And if he get better that buys me some time to do TTM later.
If he dies, then same price as Pellets at this point.
I don't care about the Chromis Fish. HawkFish, I do. Algae Blenny I do.
Catching Hawkfish, and Blenny extremely difficult.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Ouch.. well, as long as he is eating there is hope.

You know I usually over react.
Trust me he doesn't look that bad.
It's the Photo and lighting.
But yes, the blotches are there now.
Few hours ago, they were not there,before I treated.
His skin was even color, just white specs.

[Wally.B]

New Nitrate Test kit arrived today.

I always learn from past. Never Trust a test kit on last few drops.

I tested, and double tested, and triple tested.

NITRATE= 10 or possibly less. Certainly not just under 25 that I was testing with old kit.

Really hard to tell, so I did some photo color analysis.

Cutting out a square color Sample from Test Vial, and pasted square on the Color Ranger.



From photo I would say Nitrate is >5 <10. which is in the right direction.

[Wally.B]

Don't get me wrong about not wanting to save the Power Brown Tang.

I suffer anguish when I see snails dying.

Right now I have Serious Higher Priorities.
I got a call from my Sister. She didn't tell me that my mom was sick TILL few hours ago.
She is 82, and she went to doctor today after being really sick over last few days. Really bad.
Doctor said she has pneumonia, and her left lung is filled with water.
He won't prescribe her an antibiotic since she MUST go to hospital for better in-hospital treatment.
Mom doesn't want to go tonight since she hates the night shift awful waits, and limited staff, labs.
I pushed really hard to go, but she won't go tonight.
We are going first thing in the morning.
I am terribly worried sick and distracting myself with my tank and stuff, since I won't be able to sleep at all till I get her to hospital.

[Wally.B]

I had time to think things thru, waiting for morning...

The other reason for delaying the Tang and all fish extract is, even with fish trap it will won't be easy and will take time to catch them all (Thus more than 12 days for TTM, possibly much more).

At this point the Tang isn't acting weird at all. Swimming peacefully in current. Not scratching, eating everything. Yes he may get worse, but I have to give the Meds a chance.

That Alage Blenny is a rare sight, since he spends most of the time keeping the tank Algae Free.
He is my Algae Scrubber. Without him, Hair Algae could come back, take over and ruin things.
He is fat but doesn't eat fish food. So I can't starve him to catch him in fish trap. Maybe with the Nori he likes.

If even one fish is left, the tank isn't Fallow and Ich will not be effectively eliminated 100%. That is your point Sensei, which I hear loud and clear.

The Kitchen Tank corals are more important to me.
Fish are kind of 2nd priority. Important but 2nd.
I can go Fallow when the time comes (only IF I HAVE TO DO THAT, or they start dying which hasn't happened). Actually none of the other fish show any sign of Ick (yet).

Removing Fish for a long period of time changes keeping this tank healthy drastically. I don't feed the corals anything. Zero Coral Foods (Cap of Sachem Fuel maybe once a week if that).
That would have to change with no fish. Could be longer than 72 days for proper Last Fish Fallow, if takes time to catch the last one. And QT/TTM would be extended, needing repeats.

Old photo below (months ago).
Tank is actually nicer now:

A whole bunch of Zoa's showed up that I thought I lost.
MUTIPLE: Rastas, Blue/Purple Hornets, Pinwheels, and some LA lakers to name my favorites. A garden is starting, and I can't wait till they overlap..

The Acans have increased in size. Took me a while to learn placement.

The big Trumpet Candy Cane got so big, I sold it.

The Pine Apple Express Palys have spread. They are stunning as a patch under Actinic.
The Sunburst Paly is now a pair. Can't imagine what a patch of those will look like.

I will have to prune the Frogspans, even the expensive Gold Frogspawn & Gold Aussie Hammer, since they are too big and overlapping too much.

And I have expanded my Richordia collection with blues, and multi color Blue/Orange/Green.
And they are all doubling which took me ages to achieve since they grow slow. Progressive doubling/doubling means they will speed up more.

The only coral that really testing my Patience is the Aussie Torch. Wish it grew more since it's like no other LPS coral.



Things can wait with this tank. Ich won't hurt the Corals at all.

SUMMARY: The risk of ALL Removing Fish is High. For Tank & Coral Health. Choice is, One Tang possibly Dies, or big problem with all my Corals. I choose Corals!

I have been holding off on a picture update for this tank, till things mature a bit more and fill in. And some ornamental trimming.

Yes, I do have patience. Just not with my SPS tank, but I will try my best till Decemeber, knowing I have this tank in my Back Pocket to Cheer me up. (My SPS tank Depresses me, but a great challenge)

[sensei]

Wally,

I hope your mom gets better.

inded, you have a beautifull kitchen tank.

[reefmutt]

Wally, I sincerely hope your mom gets better. Very best wishes for you guys!!

Here is why I feel that doing this fallow method is practically useless:
Eradicating ich is a practical impossibility. You do all of the steps to remove fish and set up a qt and go fallow in the tank but the next fish OR coral could theoretically reintroduce ich.
Setting up a properly filtered qt system isn't easy and the stress of moving fish into it, with all the stress to the system the fish are coming from plus having to adjust to a new system, only to back again... I don't know.. on very small systems and small amounts of fish, maybe but otherwise, it just isn't worth the potential (not 100%) short lived benefits...
Like the common cold, ich and various other illnesses are everywhere. Pretty much guaranteed that ich cysts have made it into every holding tank in every salt water tank for every type of fish AND coral, everywhere. Based on the theory that ich cysts are so resistant.
I have had a couple pretty bad outbreaks of ich or oodinium that have knocked off a portion of my fish population. The rest of the fish recover, become a bit more resistant and then the disease goes dormant. I have even had a spontaneous reoccurrence that killed my mitratus butterfly and Achilles tang last year, so yes it may come back.. but you know what? I also added some snails from a supplier the week before so maybe the ich came from there.. not sure..
I just don't see the merits of this method when dealing with reef tanks. Fish only or fowler maybe...
Ttm is not 100% effective the minute you factor in every day life of a reef keeper. And ich is not a 100% death sentence either.... although, Wally, I have to say powder tangs have a really hard time beating it- BUT, I find the powder browns the most resistant, relatively speaking...
I know this opinion is not very politically correct but for me, it's more about practicality and weighing the overall odds..