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Old 02/28/2017, 05:05 PM   #9301
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamc1303 View Post
Does it only have to be underwater to create a full siphon if the primary fails? I am not too worried about that because I still have the dry line too.
Don't be lured in by improper implementations of this system. They do not work as this system is supposed to, and you should always have a concerns about ANY of the three lines failing. Bean and I both have had two lines fail at the same time. Run enough of these system and it WILL happen to you, or the odds could fall against you, and it will happen with just the single system you are running.

Whether or not the outlets are submerged is up to you; however, if both the siphon and open channel do not terminate in the same body of water, the system cannot be expected to function properly. This has been made very clear many many times.

Running any of the drain lines over roller mats, reactors. through a skimmer, or any other type of equipment, is NOT "lines terminating in the same body of water." This will cause the system to not function properly. There is an intimate interaction between the siphon and open channel, and doing the above alters the physics of the system, and alters the interaction between the two drain lines. Also, when properly adjusted, there is not enough flow in the open channel to feed any auxiliary equipment in an efficient and effective manner. The dry emergency outlet location is not a concern, so long as it drains the overflow box in siphon mode, when needed. It makes no sense to run the dry emergency through another piece of equipment, as in normal operation, there will be no flow in it.

It is a poor practice to feed any type of equipment (other than a sump,) including a skimmer, with any type of drain line, as drain lines are mission critical components of the system. If you have a piece of equipment that is just too tempting to run off a drain line, but you just don't want to run another pump, consider running it on a branch from the main return line (up sizing the return pump accordingly,) or just eliminate that piece of equipment--you probably don't need it anyway.

I understand that BRS is running one of the drain lines over a roller mat. This is an improper implementation of the system, and it cannot be expected to function properly. There are only two reliable sources of information on this drain system: The main BA thread (a long read), and Bean's website. These are the only places you will be certain to find someone that actually knows how this system is supposed to work, and how to get it to do so.


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Old 03/16/2017, 12:59 PM   #9302
Ted_C
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I'd like to see if I could get some advice / validation on a design idea I have and some issues I'm currently having.

My build is a 310 gallon display with a beananimal design. I am currently running two Waveline DC 12000 as my returns. I have a coast to coast low profile internal overflow plumbed through the tank to an external overflow box which I'm draining back into the sump.

I've tried the straight beananimal setup and I'm getting too much flow going through my open channel - which is causing some noise that's aggravating. Part of this is I can't put any more flow through the siphon because of the height of the overflow box.

Here are my ideas on how to rectify:
Full Siphon - replace the plumbing to get it lower in the overflow box.
Open Channel - increase the height in the box and cut some holes in the external overflow box lid to make it fit.
4th channel: install a gate valve in an additional drain pipe that allows a controlled "trickle" so I can adjust the flow entering the open channel.

this is really the only pic I can provide of what I'm working with:



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Old 03/16/2017, 04:02 PM   #9303
Rybren
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Are you saying that with the valve on the siphon wide open, there is too much flow for it to handle so a lot of it is going through the open channel?

If this is the case, then the only 2 options that I can thing of are:

a. Change the siphon pipe to something larger (would be hard to do as the smaller bulkhead will still limit flow), or

b. Reduce the flow from the returns.

Why are you running two return pumps?


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Old 03/16/2017, 04:38 PM   #9304
Ted_C
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opening the siphon lets air into the siphon. The height of the siphon and the height of the open channel are near identical (the open channel is 1/4" higher in the box).


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Old 03/17/2017, 05:16 AM   #9305
Rybren
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The height of the open channel and siphon seem fine.

To tune the BA, you first start with the valve on the Siphon wide open. Then you slowly start closing it until the water level in the overflow box rises until it is approximately at the middle of the Siphon elbow. Let the system settle down.

If the Siphon can't purge the air, then close the valve a bit more then observe.

If the open channel has too many bubbles coming out of it in the sump, then open the valve a bit and observe.

It will take some tweaking of the valve to find the sweet spot. But once you find it, then you likely won't have to adjust it again.


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Old 03/20/2017, 08:42 AM   #9306
pweissma
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Seeking advice ...

I have a beananimal overflow running beautifully on my 60g via an external box, similar to the ghost overflow, except mine was made by Exotic Marine Systems. My drain is 3/4" and my open channel and emergency are 1". Sump is about 7' below the tank water surface on a shelf in my basement. Flow is ~500 gph.

My question: I would like to T-off the return line for a carbon/gfo reactor I'm concerned that changes in the back pressure from the reactor would destabilize the system requiring occasional adjustment of the return pump (Vectra M1) or gate valve. I really want the system to remain set and forget. I don't want to need to tweak after a media change and at some point between media changes. If this is the case than I would prefer to keep running the reactor with it's own pump.

Is this a real concern? I greatly the appreciate your help.


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