Pacific Sun Pandora hyperion hybrid Fanclub

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Somehow my 4 ATI fixtures have never needed a fan replaced. I better go knock on some wood though!

+1

I have a 24 inch 4 year old ATI over my daughter's 38 which I ran downstairs above a section of my 180. It even fell partially underwater once, and it hasn't lost a fan yet.

On the other hand it turns out my Pac Sun fan did not fail. The issue was the fan blades bending overtime. The blades are made of soft plastic and they moved just enough so as to rub on the grating. Ultimately they got stuck on the grate. I was able to bend the fan blades down and the fan began working again, and after talking to Yorgos I will open the fixture up next week and make a minor adjustment on the fans so as to give them a tiny bit more clearance from the grate. Not the end of the world, but when I buy a Mercedes Benz I don't expect to have quality issues that I must service myself in the first month, and really I think I should have gotten a "Turn Key" fixture and not one where I had to struggle to load software and a lighting schedule.


Also I want to add to my list of recommendations. I think the fixture should come with a basic sunset/sunrise input mechanism built into the LED display and leave all the "gee wiz" computer control as an option.


The more I contemplate this fixture the more I feel it just wasn't ready for market yet. The whole idea is awesome and it's really close, but the problematic details are truly annoying and should not exist on a $2000 light.



And just to be sure everyone knows here is the link to the software that is supposed to correct the channel control problems.

Originally Posted by Pacific Sun RD

http://www.pacific-sun.eu/download/smr1.1a.rar

[Pacific Sun RD]

Joe,
I understand your concern, but using lamp in "basic" mode is really very easy.
You need to set only four parameres:
1) lamp power
2) sunrise/sunset time
3) duration
4) color settings in dedicated tab.
That's all.

You dont need to set all this "gee wez" if you dont need them.
Please understand, that something not needed for you is "must have" for some other.
Its not good idea from marketing point of view to offer fixtures in few different models - with computer/without or with only basic options.
Based on our experiences (since we started production 5 years ago) that MANY customers which firstly used only basic settings - after some months wanted to adjust them using PAR table etc, Custom Lighting scenarios etc
So its better include it in "basic" fixture - and Customer can decide which want to use / which not.
A specially, that most of them dont know already what kind of options they will want to use in the future.. :-)


Regards

Przemek Cybulski

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by Pacific Sun RD

Joe,
I understand your concern, but using lamp in "basic" mode is really very easy.
You need to set only four parameres:
1) lamp power
2) sunrise/sunset time
3) duration
4) color settings in dedicated tab.
That's all.

You dont need to set all this "gee wez" if you dont need them.
Please understand, that something not needed for you is "must have" for some other.
Its not good idea from marketing point of view to offer fixtures in few different models - with computer/without or with only basic options.
Based on our experiences (since we started production 5 years ago) that MANY customers which firstly used only basic settings - after some months wanted to adjust them using PAR table etc, Custom Lighting scenarios etc
So its better include it in "basic" fixture - and Customer can decide which want to use / which not.
A specially, that most of them dont know already what kind of options they will want to use in the future.. :-)


Regards

Przemek Cybulski

Przemek,

I agree, but the problem is you can only set the basic settings with the program on a computer. You must establish a Bluetooth Connection to make the basic settings, and the Bluetooth Connection is terrible and the program crashes a lot and the program is difficult to load.

You need to build a fixture that does not need a computer but can run all by itself. The computer should be a nice addition not the main control.

That is just one persons opinion, and I understand you have been selling fixtures for many years so it is more than possible that I am wrong, but again it is just my opinion that your fixtures could improve a lot.

The ideas you have are fantastic, but the execution is not so perfect. Yet.

I believe you will make the best there is. It takes time.

Sincerely,

Joe

[zachts]

Joe, I totally agree with you. They really should come with pre loaded software and settings at least a basic configuration and adjustability. Heck even DIY setups are plug and play these days with most of the controller kits offered now. Plug in, set time, set max intensity, set ramp time, all using the light fixture interface not a computer at the very minimum! From reading the descriptions I thought they allowed this already on the control screen, but looking again at the pics of the units I guess there are no input buttons?

Your fan issue is very suprising now that you describe it in more detail. They are aparently using a basic case fan in reverse without a gasket or stand offs to give it the needed clearence for the blades and motor. A no, no, if you've ever built anything using these fans, they are ment to blow air out of the the hole they are mounted to from the inside of the case and the intended mounting side gives this clearance. A very simple manufacturing fix would have been just to stamp the grill to punch it out a few millimeters using a basic press and it would have worked fine from the start.

A simple fan gasket from the computer store or a few washers will fix it assuming enough clearance inside for that to fit, very much a PITA to have to fix such a basic design flaw yourself though for sure.

[Rudimenta]

Re Bluetooth, I have to totally disagree, first of all I change my setting not even being in the same room. I have never had any connection issues at all. I do not use any adaptor, just use my wife's 4 years old sony laptop. Wish I could use Mac, but that software is supposed to be updated shortly.

The setup.exe file has also never worked for me, even so Prezmek swears by it! I have to unpack and run the app directly, I get the same errors if I use the setup.exe file as posted in the PS forum many times. But then since you can run the app from any folder it seems, it's not a big hassle to create a shortcut.

Re functions of the software, yes we need a simple graphical editor to go with the par tables, this should be a breeze to program for any developer. Other then that I have a hard time thinking of anything I would want from the software.

Fan issues are indeed disturbing to read about, cross my fingers here.

I also don't agree with too blue, at first I ran blue special (white looking TL's) because I thought it was too blue, but now 2 months down I recently removed them and added blue plus instead.

Par level complaints, I have the 145w model, from my primitive par tests compared to JP results it seems that my lamp at 80% vs his at 100% gives about a 100 par extra. So I think the 75w model even it might be enough in most cases would not leave much or any headroom.

I have horrible camera skills, but here is mine last week. And I can report growth of SPS.

ImageUploadedByTapatalkHD1394265459.659064.jpg

[ssdawood]

I dont use a bluetooth adapter to adjust settings. Only time I use adapter is to upgrade firmware. I ordered my lights in October and recieved it in three weeks. The lights came with upgraded firmware. Archit and Yorgos made sure to upgrade it. Fan is still running strong. And I have peace of mind of three year warranty.

Even if it fails I am covered for three years. And believe me electronics fail. I am not white knighting pacific sun. They are big boys and can defend themself. I am stating my experience so far.

Nothing to complain so far. Now I have a spectra sitting here ready to setup. I want to see first hand if it is worth the extra electricity and heat to even run it.

[ssdawood]

Even if these light break a component every month I am still covered under warranty. What company other than Pacific Sun provides three years of support. Only other one I can remember is Reefbreeders with two year warranty. I owned them to and they are amazing. Now of a company like everyone is insisting is using inferior parts and engineering will not stand behind its product. They will go broke providing parts.

[Pacific Sun RD]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

Przemek,

I agree, but the problem is you can only set the basic settings with the program on a computer. You must establish a Bluetooth Connection to make the basic settings, and the Bluetooth Connection is terrible and the program crashes a lot and the program is difficult to load.

You need to build a fixture that does not need a computer but can run all by itself. The computer should be a nice addition not the main control.

That is just one persons opinion, and I understand you have been selling fixtures for many years so it is more than possible that I am wrong, but again it is just my opinion that your fixtures could improve a lot.

The ideas you have are fantastic, but the execution is not so perfect. Yet.

I believe you will make the best there is. It takes time.

Sincerely,

Joe

Hi Joe,
I really like discuss with you :-)
Can you tell me how you imagine control all settings without computer?
We are talkign about simple on/off lamp?(like connected to external time switches?)
Im not sure what you mean "run all by itself".. From my personal experience I know that as many users use our lamps - there is so many different lighting setups.
One person will use lamp aove his FO tank - and only in the morning - so he dont need usig lamp on 100%.
Other person work as cook and want to have lamp turned on up to midningt because he finish work very late.
Another one - have non photo tank and extend his photoperiod to 14 hours on very low power...
How we can built "universal" lamp witch will meet requirments of all this Customers?
Really, we was thinking about that but finding "golen point" in this situation is very, very difficult - if not possible.
All lamps come with predefined settings - and after power on - lamp start working without needed to settng anything.

Regards

Przemek

[Pacific Sun RD]

Originally Posted by zachts

Joe, I totally agree with you. They really should come with pre loaded software and settings at least a basic configuration and adjustability. Heck even DIY setups are plug and play these days with most of the controller kits offered now. Plug in, set time, set max intensity, set ramp time, all using the light fixture interface not a computer at the very minimum! From reading the descriptions I thought they allowed this already on the control screen, but looking again at the pics of the units I guess there are no input buttons?

Your fan issue is very suprising now that you describe it in more detail. They are aparently using a basic case fan in reverse without a gasket or stand offs to give it the needed clearence for the blades and motor. A no, no, if you've ever built anything using these fans, they are ment to blow air out of the the hole they are mounted to from the inside of the case and the intended mounting side gives this clearance. A very simple manufacturing fix would have been just to stamp the grill to punch it out a few millimeters using a basic press and it would have worked fine from the start.

A simple fan gasket from the computer store or a few washers will fix it assuming enough clearance inside for that to fit, very much a PITA to have to fix such a basic design flaw yourself though for sure.

Sometimes, during shipment that metal area close to fans are "pushed" in (they are not so strong due laser/plasma cutting) and fans start touching that metal when they rotate.
Its very rare issue. Of course - every electronic part can broke(even fans which are wokring only when they are needed) - but we stand behind our products - and I think that there is no any other manufacturer which offer you 3 years of warranty. We know how are lamps ae built, we know about "weak points" of our products - but also our competitors products which usually offer 1 year warranty(which should speak for itself).
If I'm wrong please correct me
Even when warranty expire we never left Customers without support, because we know how much important is after sale service - not only before Customer will decide to spend his money for our new lamp.
Regards

Przemek

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by Pacific Sun RD

Hi Joe,
I really like discuss with you :-)


Can you tell me how you imagine control all settings without computer?

Regards

Przemek

Thank you! That's why I think you will succceed because you are very patient and willing to listen.


As to how . . . you are the owner of a business and you make LED fixtures so I think you know much more than I do about what is possible, but I have an ATI fixture, a Profilux Lightbar controller, and a Reef Lite Controller all of which have a menu driven display with 4 buttons <> and ^v AND they can be connected to a computer IF you want easier control BUT they do not have to be connected to control them. It is possible to take them out of the box, turn them on, and set just the basics and it will work.

For the Pandora I would like to turn it on and set the following:

First startup - set language/time/date

then using the LED as a menu.

1) sunrise - start
2) sunset - start
3) sunset/sunrise - duration
4) LED maximum intensity - 0 to 100%
5) T5 - on/T5 - off
6) moonlight on YES/NO
7) moonlight intensity - Low/Med/High.

The rest of the color control and PAR table possibilities are fun, but they should be extra through a direct computer link.

Before making any such changes though I personally think you need a "Start Here" brochure. Something with a picture with all the plugs and switches labeled and explained and something that explains setup in as simple a fashion as possible. If you can't make a brochure like that in 1 or 2 pages then the basic fixture is too complex.


Anyways, as I said Pacific Sun makes great lights and these are just some ideas from a crazy reefer

Joe

[goreef170]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

Thank you! That's why I think you will succceed because you are very patient and willing to listen.


As to how . . . you are the owner of a business and you make LED fixtures so I think you know much more than I do about what is possible, but I have an ATI fixture, a Profilux Lightbar controller, and a Reef Lite Controller all of which have a menu driven display with 4 buttons <> and ^v AND they can be connected to a computer IF you want easier control BUT they do not have to be connected to control them. It is possible to take them out of the box, turn them on, and set just the basics and it will work.

For the Pandora I would like to turn it on and set the following:

First startup - set language/time/date

then using the LED as a menu.

1) sunrise - start
2) sunset - start
3) sunset/sunrise - duration
4) LED maximum intensity - 0 to 100%
5) T5 - on/T5 - off
6) moonlight on YES/NO
7) moonlight intensity - Low/Med/High.

The rest of the color control and PAR table possibilities are fun, but they should be extra through a direct computer link.

Before making any such changes though I personally think you need a "Start Here" brochure. Something with a picture with all the plugs and switches labeled and explained and something that explains setup in as simple a fashion as possible. If you can't make a brochure like that in 1 or 2 pages then the basic fixture is too complex.


Anyways, as I said Pacific Sun makes great lights and these are just some ideas from a crazy reefer

Joe

Well said Joe....

I agree with Joe,

I am no way a computer nerd.... and I am really considering buying a pac sun fixture. The one thing that makes me a little nervous is the complex set up with having to download and use a computer. If it was plug and play, I probably would have already bought it. I know you have instruction videos on your web site, which is really a GOOD thing. Just wish you could set them up both ways...

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by Rudimenta

Re Bluetooth, I have to totally disagree, first of all I change my setting not even being in the same room. I have never had any connection issues at all. I do not use any adaptor, just use my wife's 4 years old sony laptop.

I believe the issue is "noise". Different homes will have different levels of noise. I have 3 different computers all of which have built in bluetooth. Not one of them will connect if I am more than 2 meters from the lights, but I know this is not the same experience as everyone else. However, other people apparently have had the same experience as I have had.

[Pacific Sun RD]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

I believe the issue is "noise". Different homes will have different levels of noise. I have 3 different computers all of which have built in bluetooth. Not one of them will connect if I am more than 2 meters from the lights, but I know this is not the same experience as everyone else. However, other people apparently have had the same experience as I have had.

Hi,
Effective range depend from your bluetooth module.
There are two most popular devices - Class 1 and Class 2.
lass 1 devices operate with 100mW power, Class 2(most popular) - only 2.5mW. Second important factor is how many other devices work (in local environment) on the same frequency(2.4gHz) - like Wifi, phones with wifi/bluetooht enabled etc.
We did many experiences with Class 1 devices - and without any problem it possible to connect with lamp installed even on second floor - or via few walls.
If you noticed problems with connection in distance bigger than 2m - please use Class 1 USB bluetooth and your problem will be solved withotu any doubt.
Almost all notebooks/laptops have built-in bluetooths Class 2(energy saving is important a specially in mobile computers) - which perfect work with mouse placed on your desktop(or wireless headphones) but not with other devices using profesional communication protocols for data transmission.
Bluetooth Class 1 is proven and perfectly working device - available in all computers/electronic stores(if your laptop dont have it built).

Regards

Przemek

[JPMagyar]

It really doesn't matter, but the fact is I AM using a Class 1 device. I just have a lot of noise in my environment, but I have other devices like an Apple TV, iPhone, Sony Camcorder, and several Bluetooth speakers which can make amazing connections with no trouble. I actually think the shrouding on the fixture and the ballasts create a large amount of interference as well, but I have no proof of this so it is just a guess.

Targus USB Bluetooth Adapter

[ghostman]

I find many of these points in this thread to be misguided. What high end led light is plug and play wirelessly right out of the box? Hydra52? No. You need the new controller or director. Radion Pro? No. You need to buy $200 Reeflink and deal with that garbage ESL. I agree with Przemek, that there is simply too much data to control to have an out of the box light. All you need to run PacSun is a $15 Bluetooth adapter. No other nonsense to buy. I've never had a problem with connecting or firmware updates. It's too easy to be complaining about.

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by ghostman

I find many of these points in this thread to be misguided. What high end led light is plug and play wirelessly right out of the box? Hydra52? No. You need the new controller or director. Radion Pro? No. You need to buy $200 Reeflink and deal with that garbage ESL. I agree with Przemek, that there is simply too much data to control to have an out of the box light. All you need to run PacSun is a $15 Bluetooth adapter. No other nonsense to buy. I've never had a problem with connecting or firmware updates. It's too easy to be complaining about.

Having owned well over 3 dozen light fixtures in the last 14 years I can assure you I have only owned 2 that needed external programming: Sfiligoi and Pacific Sun. Giesemann and ATI make amazing fixtures with dawn/dusk built in and no need for a controller and both are "high end". I agree it's too easy to complain, but that's why I tried to emphasize that I am not a business owner or a maker of light fixtures and my comments are just the opinions of one individual, but I like to think I have been thorough and open minded enough that other folks thinking about buying Pacific Sun fixtures now have a better overall understanding of potential pros and cons for such an expensive fixture. If you happen to like Pacific Sun fixtures and own one that is awesome, I would encourage you to write about what you like to balance the negative comments I made above.

[echoreef]

I have never used Metal Halide but did come from the ATI Power Module T5 fixture. It's understandable that if you are using MH or T5 that the programming and setup would be super easy. Light comes on and off at certain times during the day. Maybe some dimming and not much else. For LED fixtures, unless you are doing a simple DIY model, I do not see a one size fit all program that could please the masses. All of the big name LED manufacturers have software to control the lights. The ability to fully control these light is part of the reason why they are so expensive. Coming from the Radions, I can tell you that the programming on the Pac Sun is much simpler than Ecotech. I had to play with so many configurations and trade with other users before I settled on one. With Pac Sun, I loaded Bali and never looked back.

The other concern with the bluetooth is not much of a concern to probably 90% of the users. Everyone owns a computer nowaday. More than likely, there is already a build in bluetooth. If there is not one it's doesn't cost much to buy one. I was able to do my software and firmware upgrade with no external bluetooth. One of the concern was why did the fixture come without the latest firmware and software updates. I think the answer is simple. The latest one most of us are using is in Beta. Manufacturer do not want to take the risk with shipping a product that can potentially fail with beta programming.

One more thing. I can't agree with the statement that Pac Sun Pandora can't grow SPS. Most of us that have the fixture are using the light for our full SPS tank. Maybe it's not TOTM worthy, but it still pretty dang good. Someday when my corals grow out, I will post pictures...could be a while.

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by echoreef

I have never used Metal Halide but did come from the ATI Power Module T5 fixture.

. . . Coming from the Radions, I can tell you that the programming on the Pac Sun is much simpler than Ecotech. . . .

The other concern with the bluetooth is not much of a concern to probably 90% of the users.

One more thing. I can't agree with the statement that Pac Sun Pandora can't grow SPS. Most of us that have the fixture are using the light for our full SPS tank. Maybe it's not TOTM worthy, but it still pretty dang good. Someday when my corals grow out, I will post pictures...could be a while.

Dude you set up your tank how many weeks ago?

Originally Posted by echoreef

Background:

I got started in the hobby about 3 years ago and jumped on a 120 gallon SPS. It was a long learning process with many disasters along the way. Now that I have gained the experience and knowledge, I am ready for my dream aquarium.

Originally Posted by echoreef

If you guys are getting frustrated with the firmware upgrade, just call Yorgos or email him. I seriously wasted so much time trying to upgrade the firmware to the latest beta version to take advantage of the new features. There's nothing wrong with the update or software, you just have to troubleshoot with Yorgos for a few minutes and it's done. Like what has been repeated multiple times, the key is to have a strong blue tooth connection. You need an external blue tooth device or in my case I just put the laptop directly on top of the lamp and firmware upgrade completed in a few minutes. Now it's time to sit back and enjoy with the new software.

Originally Posted by Blenny Powers

Mine is not a firmware issue. It's software. Firmware uploaded fine. Software will not on my laptop.

[echoreef]

Although it's only been a month since I have setup the new 250 gallon tank, it looks promising. Keep in mind that prior to moving from the 120 to 250 that these corals were moved 3 times in the span of 6 months. During that transition period, most of the corals browned out due to neglect and instability. The Pac Sun Pandora S2 has a lot to do with revitalizing the corals. Most of the frags are still small but I expect good things once they grow out.

When I mentioned that I wasted time not being able to do the firmware and software upgrades, that was because I was going to the beta version instead of the stable version that was shipped. Wasting time was one day, not weeks like I did with programming the Radions during the early stage of ecosmart live. Yorgos revolved the problems for me right away the next day.

Some shots of my corals with LED at 100% and T5 bulbs on.

[ssdawood]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

Dude you set up your tank how many weeks ago?

All his problems were because of beta version. I had similar problems for beta. Bali never had a problem. Of course beta version will have flaws.

[ssdawood]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

Having owned well over 3 dozen light fixtures in the last 14 years I can assure you I have only owned 2 that needed external programming: Sfiligoi and Pacific Sun. Giesemann and ATI make amazing fixtures with dawn/dusk built in and no need for a controller and both are "high end". I agree it's too easy to complain, but that's why I tried to emphasize that I am not a business owner or a maker of light fixtures and my comments are just the opinions of one individual, but I like to think I have been thorough and open minded enough that other folks thinking about buying Pacific Sun fixtures now have a better overall understanding of potential pros and cons for such an expensive fixture. If you happen to like Pacific Sun fixtures and own one that is awesome, I would encourage you to write about what you like to balance the negative comments I made above.

Out of the three dozen light fixtures you have owned. How many were high end led fixtures. Ecotech, Mitras, led powermodule etc.

Can you name some ? I would like to know.

[ghostman]

Originally Posted by ssdawood

Out of the three dozen light fixtures you have owned. How many were high end led fixtures. Ecotech, Mitras, led powermodule etc.

Can you name some ? I would like to know.

+1. Dusk/dawn on a T5 fixture can be accomplished with simple timers. Programmable LEDs can have hundreds of lighting changes during the day. This isn't comparable to simple T5 or MH combos.

[goreef170]

Originally Posted by echoreef

Although it's only been a month since I have setup the new 250 gallon tank, it looks promising. Keep in mind that prior to moving from the 120 to 250 that these corals were moved 3 times in the span of 6 months. During that transition period, most of the corals browned out due to neglect and instability. The Pac Sun Pandora S2 has a lot to do with revitalizing the corals. Most of the frags are still small but I expect good things once they grow out.

When I mentioned that I wasted time not being able to do the firmware and software upgrades, that was because I was going to the beta version instead of the stable version that was shipped. Wasting time was one day, not weeks like I did with programming the Radions during the early stage of ecosmart live. Yorgos revolved the problems for me right away the next day.

Some shots of my corals with LED at 100% and T5 bulbs on.

Eric, Your corals look Great ! I hope mine will look as promising once I switch to Pacific Sun. I think I will be going with their Pandora S3. I may send you a PM in a little bit.
Keith

[Rudimenta]

S3 is great I have it, make sure you got some t5 options to play with

[ssdawood]

I have to admit, for the above corals colors are great. Echo reef what are your settings bud.