Reef Central Online Community
Marine Depot

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 05/17/2008, 09:59 PM   #1
iceman0032935
Registered Member
 
iceman0032935's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: melbourne,fl
Posts: 313
i have a questions about fresh salt water?

i have heard that's its good to add natural salt water to your aquarium because of the natural elements. if i were to go out about 15 miles and got some fresh sea water how long could i store it for? would i have to use it right away? would it even be worth doing?


iceman0032935 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2008, 10:02 PM   #2
matt880305
Registered Member
 
matt880305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: montgomery, il
Posts: 844
one you would have to store it for about a week so all the bad would settle to the bottom. not really sure on how long you could store it and i really dont think it is worth imo.


matt880305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2008, 10:40 PM   #3
Capt_Cully
Registered Member
 
Capt_Cully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 13,574
I think you'd pick up alot of contaminants.


__________________
People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks.

Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2
Capt_Cully is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2008, 10:42 PM   #4
Playa-1
Moved On
 
Playa-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
Posts: 7,497
I wouldn't bother.
I'm sure it would last a long time especially if you heat and aerate it.
Sometimes the LFS sells fresh seawater. They do around here anyways for about 50 cents per gallon.

http://www.catalinawater.com/


Playa-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2008, 12:16 AM   #5
SkyPapa
Premium Member
 
SkyPapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 994
IIRC, PaulB, the guy with the 30 year old reef, uses NSW and collects it all from Long Island Sound and doses it with a little bleach to kill all the nasties.
I don't remember how long he keeps it stored.


SkyPapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2008, 04:43 AM   #6
papagimp
COMAS Rocks!
 
papagimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,185
Blog Entries: 2
Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.


__________________
58g Softie & 75g Stoney


Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society

Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011
papagimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2008, 04:48 AM   #7
adamsaranluke
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally posted by SkyPapa
IIRC, PaulB, the guy with the 30 year old reef, uses NSW and collects it all from Long Island Sound and doses it with a little bleach to kill all the nasties.
I don't remember how long he keeps it stored.
30 year old reef?!?! Do you have a link to some pictures? Thats amazing


adamsaranluke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2008, 09:47 AM   #8
iceman0032935
Registered Member
 
iceman0032935's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: melbourne,fl
Posts: 313
if i'm already out there deep sea fishing should i get some natural sea water?


iceman0032935 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2008, 11:42 AM   #9
SkyPapa
Premium Member
 
SkyPapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally posted by adamsaranluke
30 year old reef?!?! Do you have a link to some pictures? Thats amazing
No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time. Look around.
Last I saw a pic, IIRC, was on capt hylinur's thread about fuges.


SkyPapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 07:41 PM   #10
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,549
Quote:
No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time.
I am on here almost every day.
I was in California this week so I may have been off for a few days. You don't have to go miles off shore to collect water. If you go to the ocean beaches you can collect it from shore. You don't have to store it either, you can adjust the temp and salt level and dump it in your tank. Is it worth it? I would use just NSW if it were not so heavy. ASW is OK but natural is better. All of your animals came from NSW, none of them came from fake salt water, it's a no brainer .
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40. There are pictures in my gallery, Have a great night
Paul


Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 10:08 PM   #11
SkyPapa
Premium Member
 
SkyPapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B
I am on here almost every day......
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40.
Paul
Yea, I know you're here, I just didn't have a link.

Boy, time flies, huh?
I actually registered here in July 2003 but had to reregister when my email changed and I forgot my password, so I've seen most of your posts.

Didn't I read once that you added bleach to NSW?
Maybe not, I'm old and confused, but not as old as you
I just passed the old speed limit.


SkyPapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 10:30 PM   #12
fattyratrat
Registered Member
 
fattyratrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 278
with gas prices now you're gonna have to get a ton of water for the 15 mile trip to be better than buying it.


fattyratrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 10:36 PM   #13
Flipper62
Premium Member
 
Flipper62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO
Posts: 3,045
Quote:
Originally posted by papagimp
Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
AMEN ON THIS


__________________
If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside."

Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay.
Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW
Flipper62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 10:43 PM   #14
jamest0o0
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,325
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B
I am on here almost every day.
I was in California this week so I may have been off for a few days. You don't have to go miles off shore to collect water. If you go to the ocean beaches you can collect it from shore. You don't have to store it either, you can adjust the temp and salt level and dump it in your tank. Is it worth it? I would use just NSW if it were not so heavy. ASW is OK but natural is better. All of your animals came from NSW, none of them came from fake salt water, it's a no brainer .
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40. There are pictures in my gallery, Have a great night
Paul
Honestly I will have to disagree that NSW from beaches is better. I know you know more than I do and have tons of experience and I respect you, I just don't think it is worth it. Many beaches have a lot of chemicals and junk in them that you do not want in your tank. You may have experience in doing this, but that does not mean everyone will. Creatures in the oceans survive because the bodies of water are too huge for the chemicals to spread and kill everything, while in a tank they will be concentrated in one spot and could cause a tank crash.

Once again not trying to start a flame war or anything just posting my opinion on this. Maybe I am jsut paranoid because I come from a polluted city?


jamest0o0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/26/2008, 10:49 PM   #15
gatorsfan
Registered Member
 
gatorsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 105
Yes I would agree, I think that it is not worth the hassle nor the chances of introducing contaminates to a much smaller body of water.


gatorsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/27/2008, 06:58 AM   #16
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,549
Quote:
Honestly I will have to disagree that NSW from beaches is better. I know you know more than I do and have tons of experience and I respect you, I just don't think it is worth it. Many beaches have a lot of chemicals and junk in them that you do not want in your tank. You may have experience in doing this, but that does not mean everyone will. Creatures in the oceans survive because the bodies of water are too huge for the chemicals to spread and kill everything, while in a tank they will be concentrated in one spot and could cause a tank crash.
James I don't think you are flaming and you are correct, my experience does not mean I am correct. The truth is of course that not all beaches are created equal. Would you consider using sea water from the sea where the animals were collected?
I have been to many of those places and that water is not as pristine as many believe. We in the US are spoiled because we have water treatment plants all over the place which are moslty lacking in much of the tropics where our animals are from.
The Atlantic beaches where I collect are clean. I do also collect in the Long Island Sound which is water that just passed NYC through the East River, not the best choice I am sure but I have never had a problem. ASW works just as well but for some people with access to clean sea water it is free, you don't have to go out miles or even yards, it has all the nutrients the animals need including all of the obscure chemicals that are not added to ASW. NSW has every element on earth disolved in it. No one really knows if these substances are beneficial for our needs but the fish eveoved in it. Collecting for me is part of the hobby as is making rocks and aquascaping. Is NSW needed? Of course not.
As for adding Bleach, yes I do that sometimes with questionable water which I believe is infested with Red Tide or too much bacteria. I did not invent that but I have been doing it for many years. Don't do it unless You know the exact procedure or you will lose all of your animals in a few minutes. (don't ask)


Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/27/2008, 08:23 AM   #17
IslandCrow
Reef Monkey
 
IslandCrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 5,759
I use NSW as often as I can. I think you'll find more people who take the conservative approach and avoid it. Their answer is always that it could have contaminates. Well, technically if you expose your artificial seawater to the air it has contaminates, but their point may very well be valid. The beach I collect from is off of government land, so there isn't any industrial buildup in the immediate area. I used to store it in a dark room for a week per a couple suggestions I read in books, but I don't bother with that anymore. I just check the red tide report before I collect, run it through some filter floss and dump it in. My corals haven't doubled in size, but it certainly doesn't seem to hurt them either.

Oh, and here's a link to a thread on Paul B's tank. Someone's really got to tell him that one of his friends must have thrown a couple beer bottles in there during his 1975 New Year's party. . .

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=727454


__________________
All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt.

-Mike C.

Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?
IslandCrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/27/2008, 09:00 AM   #18
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by IslandCrow
Someone's really got to tell him that one of his friends must have thrown a couple beer bottles in there during his 1975 New Year's party. . .



__________________
"Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover
Tswifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/02/2008, 07:25 PM   #19
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by papagimp
Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
PG
can you empty your mail box so I can email you
Thanks
Scott


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/02/2008, 07:30 PM   #20
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by SkyPapa
No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time. Look around.
Last I saw a pic, IIRC, was on capt hylinur's thread about fuges.
As far as I am concerned Paul is the most experienced and respected reefer on here
He is also very modest and I hope he doesn't mind me posting his thread
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2008, 05:48 AM   #21
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,549
Quote:
Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
This is true and ASW works fine. Here is a shot taken off Bora Bora, NSW works just as well.
Thats my wife in the picture, you could ask her






Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2008, 02:16 PM   #22
tommyblaze420
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Sorry to to go off topic but with some of the best and most experienced reefers in this thread, I wanted to know what you think about this water and what they claim
http://www.naturesocean.com/nutri_sea_water2.htm


tommyblaze420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2008, 02:56 PM   #23
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,549
Sounds like a lot of hype and I would imagine it is expensive.
Having said that, I do recommend NSW occasionally and I would imagine if you don't live by the sea, you could only buy it.
I believe we have to add bacteria from the sea regularly because otherwise after a while you will only have a couple of types af bacteria as the hardy types occupy all of the available space and these bacteria may not be the best for our needs. I personally add bacteria every few weeks along with amphipods and copepods. I also add NSW whenever I feel energetic enough to collect it.
As for your skimmer and ozone killing all of your bacteria, that is just bunk. Most of the bacteria are not in the water, they are on the rocks and substrait and even in the skimmer.


__________________
I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead.

Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2008, 03:50 PM   #24
prime311
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 227
Hey Paul you're tank is really amazing, I can't believe its been established so long before all the 'advances' in fish and coral reef care have come around. I know you probably hear that all the time, but its worth repeating!


prime311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2008, 06:17 PM   #25
Bruno3047
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,013
If you want to store the nsw for any extended period of time, it must be continually aerated so as not to have the indigenous nitrogenous matter go into sulfate reduction and form hydrogen sulfide.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php


Bruno3047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:13 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.