~450G Display (~1000G system) documentary starting

[merlock116]

setup of that first plumbing design with all the bypasses would be a hassle but great if you had the room.

if i were you, i'd go with the second pic you posted, but with a bypass from the drain directly to the sump, so you can work on the dsb, fuge, and skimmer while they're offline.

[kwl1763]

Well I did a combo of both. I did more along the lines of the first. I don't think I'll build in all the bypass stuff though. The more I think about the more I think even If i did need to take one offline with the unions and some flexpipe premade it would literally be like a 2 minute job to bypass if I ever need to.

Got a ton done today. I'll post pictures in a bit.

[kwl1763]

OK here is the promised pics. I finally got about 8 hours in yesterday of good "tank time" so here was the result.

After debating with myself about the bulkhead to bulkhead connections I just didn't like it for a couple reasons.

1) the drains would have more "back pressure" due to them being connected so that could be an issue

2) The more bulkheads the more chances of one leaking

3) With them level I would have to put them at least 1 ft apart in order to get the union/valve in place

I didn't like any of those. The sacrifice was I had to do a little more difficult "stand" building and my skimmer will basically be touching the ceiling. I can live with both of those.

So without further ado here are the stands. The need a couple more coats of polyurethane and they'll be good to go. The middle height one is still waiting on it's casters in it's picture.







The last one looks like I spotlit it for the shot. pretty funny!

The next thing was to drill the bulkheads. With these heavy duty bulkheads they need a 2 7/8" hole. Well after going to home depot and looking at the prices of hole saws that big I decided to pick this up for my Dremel for $12.



Fortunately bulkheads are pretty forgiving so the hole doesn't have to be perfect (or even good as long as it's not to big) If you need a perfect circle I can't recommend it but it worked for what I had to do.

Here was the result.



With that result good thing it didn't need to be perfect!

[kwl1763]

I drilled 2 bulkhead holes in 2 of the sumps and sealed the bottom bulkheads that come already in the troughs. I have heard many stories of them leaking so I went ahead and siliconed them up. If I need a bulkhead on the bottom I'll just drill my own.

Here is a shot of the bulkheads installed with strainers already screwed in.



Now a couple overall picks. This is basically how they will be setup when running.





That's about it for now. I'm satisfied with the progress I made this weekend. I'll have water in the sump by next weekend.

I have yet to decide if I'm going to order live rock before the holidays or wait until after because I'll be gone for a week and a half.

[law086]

Nice work and thanks for the pics!

[SERVO]

Originally posted by melev
Keith, if you followed my thread last week, we had a decent discussion about humidity. Armed with that knowledge I went to Home Depot to see what kind of vent fans they had. You basically want to know how many CFM and Sones you want. The lower the number of sones, the quieter it is. There was a nice $20 vent fan that would have woke the dead, and the one I liked was $118 of course. I had an A/C guy here last week, and he told me I needed 50CFM in my fish room. I'm going to go with 100CFM because I plan to pipe that moist air out some PVC and out of my home and figure the additional resistance will reduce the rating the mfg gave it.

I may post the model # of the one I like, and then wait for you to find me a better deal. You always score in that department.

Leave it to this hobby to turn us into total nerds! I'm learning things that I never in a million years thought that I would know. BTW Marc, you people down here need to take winter driving lessons. Everyone needs to take their Chevy and Ford pick ups up to Minn, MI, OH, PA and NY for some lake effect snow driving lessons and some classes on the laws of physics and how your car becomes a projectile when you slam on your breaks over ice. Gheesh. They're just as bad in Atlanta from what I hear.

So Keith, when you mentioned that you discovered a cheap solution for your top off, you do know that water is cheaper in GA than in TX .

Things are comming along. When I drilled out my Rubbermaids, the power died on my drill so I had to hand cut the rest. PITA!!! My forearm still aches! Keep up the updates. BTW, I think that you will like your tort again .

[McGinnis]

Nice work Keith! How sturdy are your brackets? And what was the height of the upper one? I thought you were concerned about them being too high for the skimmer at one poine. Keep us posted.

[melev]

Originally posted by SERVO
Leave it to this hobby to turn us into total nerds! I'm learning things that I never in a million years thought that I would know. BTW Marc, you people down here need to take winter driving lessons. Everyone needs to take their Chevy and Ford pick ups up to Minn, MI, OH, PA and NY for some lake effect snow driving lessons and some classes on the laws of physics and how your car becomes a projectile when you slam on your breaks over ice. Gheesh. They're just as bad in Atlanta from what I hear.

That post just made my day.

Keith - your new sumps look great. Those racks are rugged!

For now, put your camera in Auto mode and use the flash. You'll get crisp shots every time.

[jnarowe]

Hey there! Melev (Marc) sent me to find you. I am in a similar stage as you and having a terrible time with the pre-installed bulkheads on my Rubbermaid bins. I cannot find a FPT fitting that will match the outside. I can use a MPT fitting, but that reduces the flow. Marc said you are just drilling your own and sealed the original ones, which I see in your thread. Seems like a waste but maybe that's the way to go. Comments?

And BTW, where did you find 100g tubs for $50???

I have a couple of points to make regarding your project: First, I originally was planning to use the FRP sheets but they were very expensive and actually not "waterproof" in the sense that water can seep through the seams. I decided on using yacht bilge paint and although the application process was brutal, the finished product is sweet. With foamed electrical boxes and an exterior steel door with rubber seales, my fish room can hold water.

I am putting my tub-to-tub connections down low rather than near the rim to create a large baffle system out of the tubs themselves. You can also have your overflow land in a bucket, which will force the bubbles to the surface before the water moves to the next section.

As far as overflow goes, I have two 2" and one 1-1/2" that goes directly into the skimmer. I am using one Sequence for a return with a 1-1/2" main line so there is plenty of excess drainage on the display.

The hole drilling thing is a nightmare. I saw online an attachment for a router to make holes but many of the holes are smaller than that attachment can make. I have had a combo hole saw for years that has 6 or 7 different sizes to choose from, and you should try to find one. It is a main drill head with circle grooves and the hole blades press and turn to lock in. It is not stout enough to drill thick acrylic, but it works well on things like the Rubbermaid tubs, wood, etc.

I am routing the slots for my overflow right now, and it is murder. The slots look so bad I won't even post photos of them. I am not happy with them but as a friend who visited last night said, "no one is going to know". (EXCEPT FOR ME!) Maybe I should have used a jig saw.

PM any time for project discussion!

[jnarowe]

BTW, I meant to mention that I have received those Savko boxes too, and that is a lot of fun but, some of those items are cheaper at Lowes. In particular unions and union ball valves as well as check valves. Lowes does also have the flexible PVC, but it does cost more than Savko.

[jnarowe]

If you haven't already built your overflow, here is an interesting overflow comb that I am using. I bought it from this ebay auction also. price is really good, and these things are cool because you can remove them for cleaning rather than the yoga position required to get under the euro-bracing.

I think you could re-think the refugium/frag grow out tank along the lines that a refugium requires light in the 5000K to 6500K range and a frag grow-out tank would require light in the 10000K to 20000K range. These two items thrive in slightly different environments, and with all the tubs you are using, you can easily separate the two. Generally refugium/DSB combos are common because the DSB doesn't require a great amount of light and it combines 2 messy items into 1 tub to make clean up a bit easier. IMO a frag grow-out tank really should be able to take advantage of food in suspension but not have to deal with coral eating critters and coral-to-coral competition.

After reading your thread, I am guessing that you are still out-of-town so i look forward to your next project update!

[tangreef68]

cool tank

[kwl1763]

Well I'm back from a tropical week in Dallas. Played golf in shorts twice as it was 80 degrees!!! Not so nice back here as it is in the 40s and raining. We actually had a pretty bad ice storm a couple weeks back. It was crazt driving to Texas. We left real early in the mornign and when we crossed the Georgia/Alabama border it was 16 degrees. By the time we hit Texas ~10 hours after that it was in the 70s so pretty extreme considering we were going straight west (not South or North)

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply but let me address everyone's points first then a non-eventful update.

Mcginnis, the upper one right now is roughly 18" high. I am still concerned with the skimmer height. I think i will buy one of the shorter 50G rubbermaids for the DSB part and put the high stand in the middle and the middle height stand on the top skimmer section. I went ahead and build the skimmer stand 28" tall. This makes the whole thing ~7' 9" so I can still fit in an 8' ceiling with a little bit to spare. I'll have to play with it a bit but I think it's OK. The stands are pretty darn sturdy. I have no worries about them at all. I already filled one tub up for water testing and there were no issues on the tall stand. I even rolled it around and it was solid as a rock.

jnarowe, I had talked to several people who told me not to even waste my time with those so I just siliconed mine. I agree that it is a little crazy but it's pretty cheap and easy to silicone them and create your own and not have to worry about it!

Those tubs were at Tractor Supply Company here and $53. The price varies throughout the country but should be under $70 anywhere!

Very interested in the bildge paint idea. Anymore details on brand application, etc. would be great. Did you put it over regular sheetrock? I have also pretty much ruled out the FRP due to the cost and seam issue. Some type of paint seems to be the best solution for both cost and effectiviness. I'm also interested in the foamed electrical box idea even though I will most likely mount the box outside the room and just run a few plugs into the room.


I will most likely have the overflow fall into a bucket to help with the microbubbles but I figure by the time it runs through all the sumps it should be a non issue.

I plan on using 6500 VHOs (already have everything I need from previous stuff) over the refuge/growout. The corals will grow perfectly fine in 6500. They may not look as good but they love the light. The cheato will do fine also. I think of it a little in the opposite way as far as the corals go. Pods and critters grow and multiply in the DSB and refugium areas which feed the corals. Actually the growout will have a pass at the water after the DSB and fuge before the main tank does so it should have the most available. I could also easily target feed that area if need so I'm not to worried. It's SPS anyway so the chances of not having enough food are far outweighted by the chance of having to many nutrients available.

The overflow comb is a good idea. I'll keep that in mind.

Quick update. I've done a little more work. The skimmer is all plumbed up now. I have to get one more part for the collection cup drain. I hope to actually run it with one of the sumps tommorow. I hope to have some people out to hang all the drywall, create the wall, etc, etc by the end of this month.

[jnarowe]

The 50g tubs are $80 here. Could be shipping cross country though.

I used Interlux BilgeKote and mixed 1:1 Gray & White. I applied it over green board without a primer, but I would highly recommend that you use a good grade primer/sealer. Possibly Kilz would work. The Interlux primer is very expensive but the green board soaks up the BilgeKote like a sponge. My first 1-1/2g were essentially primer. you can buy it at West Marine or virtually any marine store. You can PM for a quote as I sell marine stuff at cost+ 10%. It would probably be easier for you to get it locally though. Believe me, the surface is completely sealed for longer than you will be alive and it is much cheaper and effective than FRP.

I think you might be able to use regular sheet rock, but I chose not to take the chance. As far as foaming plugs go, all tank specific plugs in my tank room will be weather-proof surface mount, but since I already had existing house plugs I just foamed around all of them including the ones for the opposite side of the wall. That is an important part of sound control.

[kwl1763]

Well I setup everything with the skimmer. Here are the pics.

[melev]

SO?! Does it leak? Does it work? WHERE'S THE WATER?! Come on, you need to christen that thing. Slam a bottle of copepods against the side of it already.

[kwl1763]

Unfortunatly when water testing tonight there was a very small leak in one of the beckett tubes on the connection near the bottom. I sealed it with some weld on 16 so that should take care of it but I have to wait until tommorow to see.

So impatient Marc!! Ya I'm anxious also. Once this is done it will be my biggest plumbing hurdle completed and checked off! The rest of the stuff is easy. I thought you leak checked this thing by the way!

[melev]

No, I had to get my huge sump built first. I finally got it done, but the skimmer had been picked up. Since it probably holds 30g of water in it when running, I had to have a sump large enough to hold all the exiting water (which is pretty much everything above the ballvalve exit).

[kwl1763]

Ya as you can see I insterted the ball valve unions so I could close them both, fill up the skimmer check for leaks, etc. Then I'l open them as I turn the pump on so I won't have any massive suck down in the tank or any issues from having just air in the skimmer when I fire it up. Unfortunatly I didn't make it to that point

[jnarowe]

Holy Cow batman, that's a monster!

Question: I noticed your bulkheads are installed with the nut on the inside. Is there any particular reason why you did it that way?

[kwl1763]

Simple actually, I ordered female threaded on one side and slip on the other and threaded strainers. That is simply the way stuff fits! So now I have a slip connection to the outside. I just made sure the washer was on the inside!

So no particular reason and I really don't think it matters one way or the other!

[jnarowe]

OK, I understand. I just thought it was strange looking and might be more difficult to snug one up once the tank is full.

I have heard rumblings from other reefers to only use slip fittings but I can't figure out why. Maybe they have a higher probability of leaking? When I bought my tank, to move it I had to saw out all the fittings which is a bummer because most of them can't be re-used. It seems to me that if I use all threaded fittings and I need to change something, I can still use the same bulkhead. of course that requires using an adapter for pipe which adds another connection, but lets say I need to clean a line out, I could close the valve, remove the line, and re-install it. Any comments?

[melev]

Threaded fittings have smaller internal diameter.

[jnarowe]

Yeah, I realized that after the post, as I was having problems with that and was unable to get fittings to thread over the Rubbermaid BHs. It turns out that is some proprietary thread that can't be matched locally. Good point.

[kwl1763]

Originally posted by jnarowe
It turns out that is some proprietary thread that can't be matched locally.

That's very odd. I wonder what their reasoning is for that? Basically it can only be used for a plug and that is it. Maybe they don't want you hooking it up to plumbing and then something happen and you sue them. After all it is designed to be a static livestock water trough!