Will busting up old established live rock cause a spike in organics?

Bent · 03/04/2018, 08:15 AM

My LfS says they can get me a nice size peacock mantis for 50 bucks. I’m tempted to do it, but the problem is in my fuge I have only like 5 big chunks of live rock that have been in there for 5 or so years.

In order to do this right I was going to build some pvc pipe tunnel systems and bust up those large pieces so I can work with them.

What kind of issues, if any will this cause?

billdogg · 03/04/2018, 08:27 AM

I assume you won't be breaking them while still in the sump?

I'd look at this as a great opportunity to clean that area of your sump. Remove all the rocks to another container with old tank water in it to keep them wet. Clean out the sump area and then break them up however you like. Rinse them off in another bucket of tank water and place them back into the sump however you like. It will not hurt a thing. If anything, you'll be exposing more surface area for the denitrifying bacteria to colonize so you will have a net gain.

Bent · 03/04/2018, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

I assume you won't be breaking them while still in the sump?

I'd look at this as a great opportunity to clean that area of your sump. Remove all the rocks to another container with old tank water in it to keep them wet. Clean out the sump area and then break them up however you like. Rinse them off in another bucket of tank water and place them back into the sump however you like. It will not hurt a thing. If anything, you'll be exposing more surface area for the denitrifying bacteria to colonize so you will have a net gain.

Ok cool, thanks. I will do just that.

It’s all in a 30g tank that’s plumbed in-line with everything in the fish room. Should I vacuum the sand bed too or is that asking for trouble? It’s about 4-5” of sand.

Taking your advice in mind here’s what I’ll do.

1: Cut off the water supply to keep the detritus and gunk from spilling over into the rest of the system.

2: take the rock out, put in bucket of tank water.

3: fill another bucket with tank water.

4: put together my PVC tunnels.

5: take the rock out one by one, beat the crap out of it with a hammer, place smaller pieces in other bucket of water.

6: rebuild everything with the tunnels in the tank.

7: wait a little while for gunk to settle.

8: turn back online.

I’m a step by step kind of guy.

billdogg · 03/04/2018, 10:02 AM

Is the sand in the refugium as well? If so, when you disturb it you will almost certainly release hydrogen Sulfide into the water (black, stinky stuff, that is toxic). Because of this, isolating it from the rest of your system before doing anything is the proper 1st step. I would go ahead and clean the sand as well as possible at that time. It will probably require the addition of more water to get it done. Just siphon from the DT into the sump area for that. Keep going until no more black stuff comes out. A Python Siphon is the perfect tool for this job, btw. Once the sand is clean, continue with the rest of your plan and I foresee no problems at all. As an added bonus, you will end up giving the DT a nice sized water change at the same time (due to the amount of water you will need to get the sand clean), so have plenty of water ready to go.

Doing it this way will have the benefit of both losing minimal denitrifying bacteria and ridding your system of whatever gunk is built up in the sand bed. WIN WIN!

Have fun!!!

and pics of the mantis please!!!!

Bent · 03/04/2018, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

Is the sand in the refugium as well? If so, when you disturb it you will almost certainly release hydrogen Sulfide into the water (black, stinky stuff, that is toxic). Because of this, isolating it from the rest of your system before doing anything is the proper 1st step. I would go ahead and clean the sand as well as possible at that time. It will probably require the addition of more water to get it done. Just siphon from the DT into the sump area for that. Keep going until no more black stuff comes out. A Python Siphon is the perfect tool for this job, btw. Once the sand is clean, continue with the rest of your plan and I foresee no problems at all. As an added bonus, you will end up giving the DT a nice sized water change at the same time (due to the amount of water you will need to get the sand clean), so have plenty of water ready to go.

Doing it this way will have the benefit of both losing minimal denitrifying bacteria and ridding your system of whatever gunk is built up in the sand bed. WIN WIN!

Have fun!!!

and pics of the mantis please!!!!

Yeah sand is in the fuge, pic of the fuge is attached.

Anytime I do anything in that nasty thing I always isolate it. It’s gross.

Will siphoning it decimate my pods that are in there?

billdogg · 03/04/2018, 06:06 PM

Sure you'll lose some, but they'll bounce back quickly enough.

ReefkeeperZ · 03/04/2018, 06:19 PM

I've be chopping rocks up for years, because of fragging etc, unless the rock is big enough to be anaerobic inside you have no worries. you may lose some iner growing sponges tear a worm or two but it will be minor. If its anaerobic you may get a minuscule spike because of die of from oxygenating the previously unexposed area. but again that will be definitely a minority of rocks your smashing up. (i've literally split rocks in my DT with a cold chisel and hammer after lowering the water enough to get at them)

Bent · 03/08/2018, 07:52 AM

I’ve been thinking and I guess with all the digging the mantis will be doing I probably should vacuum the sanfbed.

I’d say if I don’t I’m going to get a lot of nutrient spiking when he starts throwing sand around.

Is that a good assumption?

billdogg · 03/08/2018, 04:05 PM

Yes. You will be disturbing it anyway when you pull rocks to redo things. Take the opportunity to freshen it up a bit!

hth!

Bent · 03/08/2018, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

Yes. You will be disturbing it anyway when you pull rocks to redo things. Take the opportunity to freshen it up a bit!

hth!

Thanks for the help bill.

He will be here Tuesday so I’ve got some work to do this weekend.

billdogg · 03/08/2018, 04:39 PM

Never a problem!!!!

Bent · 03/09/2018, 09:31 PM

Well she’s done!

Pic is attached. Dust is still settling. I busted up the rock, put the pvc pipe in and covered it up. What do you think?

I also found a nasty hitchhiker.

03/04/2018, 08:15 AM	#1
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	Will busting up old established live rock cause a spike in organics? My LfS says they can get me a nice size peacock mantis for 50 bucks. I’m tempted to do it, but the problem is in my fuge I have only like 5 big chunks of live rock that have been in there for 5 or so years. In order to do this right I was going to build some pvc pipe tunnel systems and bust up those large pieces so I can work with them. What kind of issues, if any will this cause? __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/04/2018, 08:27 AM	#2
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I assume you won't be breaking them while still in the sump? I'd look at this as a great opportunity to clean that area of your sump. Remove all the rocks to another container with old tank water in it to keep them wet. Clean out the sump area and then break them up however you like. Rinse them off in another bucket of tank water and place them back into the sump however you like. It will not hurt a thing. If anything, you'll be exposing more surface area for the denitrifying bacteria to colonize so you will have a net gain. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/04/2018, 10:02 AM	#4
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Is the sand in the refugium as well? If so, when you disturb it you will almost certainly release hydrogen Sulfide into the water (black, stinky stuff, that is toxic). Because of this, isolating it from the rest of your system before doing anything is the proper 1st step. I would go ahead and clean the sand as well as possible at that time. It will probably require the addition of more water to get it done. Just siphon from the DT into the sump area for that. Keep going until no more black stuff comes out. A Python Siphon is the perfect tool for this job, btw. Once the sand is clean, continue with the rest of your plan and I foresee no problems at all. As an added bonus, you will end up giving the DT a nice sized water change at the same time (due to the amount of water you will need to get the sand clean), so have plenty of water ready to go. Doing it this way will have the benefit of both losing minimal denitrifying bacteria and ridding your system of whatever gunk is built up in the sand bed. WIN WIN! Have fun!!! and pics of the mantis please!!!! __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/04/2018, 06:06 PM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Sure you'll lose some, but they'll bounce back quickly enough. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/04/2018, 06:19 PM	#7
ReefkeeperZ Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 392	I've be chopping rocks up for years, because of fragging etc, unless the rock is big enough to be anaerobic inside you have no worries. you may lose some iner growing sponges tear a worm or two but it will be minor. If its anaerobic you may get a minuscule spike because of die of from oxygenating the previously unexposed area. but again that will be definitely a minority of rocks your smashing up. (i've literally split rocks in my DT with a cold chisel and hammer after lowering the water enough to get at them) __________________ insert witty catchphrase here

03/08/2018, 07:52 AM	#8
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I’ve been thinking and I guess with all the digging the mantis will be doing I probably should vacuum the sanfbed. I’d say if I don’t I’m going to get a lot of nutrient spiking when he starts throwing sand around. Is that a good assumption? __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/08/2018, 04:05 PM	#9
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Yes. You will be disturbing it anyway when you pull rocks to redo things. Take the opportunity to freshen it up a bit! hth! __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/08/2018, 04:39 PM	#11
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Never a problem!!!! __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer