Red Sea Owners - I have questions

[KTwo]

I really like the style of the Red Sea systems and the almost turn-key approach. I have a couple of hesitations though and wanted to get the collective's thoughts on them

1. Wood stand. I'm a firm believer that wood and water mix in only the rarest of cases. This isn't one where I believe they should meet. With a sump in the bottom the moisture concerns me, even with the marine grade paint that is used. Anyone have any problems or thoughts on that?

2. Filter socks. I've read the filter sock size used in the Red Sea sump can only be purchased from Red Sea. True? I hate single point failures/suppliers and would prefer a size that is widely available.

3. ATO size. Other owners have complained about the relatively small size of the ATO reservoir. Has this become problematic for anyone?

I don't think any of these three, individually, would sour me too much on purchasing one (if/when I finally purchase) but all three together, if all meet my already predisposed low opinion of them, might be enough to sway me from purchasing.

But I wanted the first hand experience/opinions of owners.

Thx
-K2

[ktownhero]

1) The wood stand is not just painted, it has a veneer on it that is completely waterproof. Red Sea didn't "forget" about the issues related to tanks and sumps, they handled it appropriately. You won't have to worry about issues here.

2) The filter socks are available via Red Sea, BRS and probably your LFS. And everywhere else that sells reef supplies. They are like $10/pair. Alternatively, you can use any other brand filter sock with some slight modification. To be honest though, most people end up removing the socks and only using them situationally. They are super easy to clean which is nice.

3) The size of the ATO in my 425XL meant I had to top it off every 3 days. It wasn't the size that bothered me as much as it was the gravity feed which could get clogged with salt sometimes. I, like most owners, moved on from the stock ATO and put a 10G container on the other side. Now I don't have to bother with the top off but once every 10 days or so

I have written up a detailed review before, so I will just paste it here:

I had been researching a 120 gallon standard set up that I intended to DIY almost entirely from the stand to the sump. After months of planning (I had some home construction involved), I happened upon this Red Sea Reefer 425XL. Now, if you simply look at the volume, you may be mislead by this tank. The volume is only 88 gallons, but the actual footprint of the tank is much closer to a standard 120 than a 90. It is 47"x22.6"x22". So, despite "sounding" like a 90 gallon, I would really rank this more along the lines of a 120 in terms of one's ability to aquascape and stock the tank.

With all of that realized, I found myself conflicted. I spent all of this time planning, but now there's this tank that is not only in the dimensions I want, but also includes a beautiful rimless tank and matching stand along with a glass sump. My choice was made: I ordered the Red Sea Reefer.

... and boy am I glad I did. This is just an unbelievable package for the money spent. You absolutely cannot find anything in this class for this price. The tank is perfect with 1/2" front and back panels and 3/8" side panels. The front glass is Starphire and is crystal clear. The glass edges are beveled and the seams are perfect. There is no sloppy silicone work here... You are getting the best of the best in terms of construction quality.

The stand is equally nice. You do need to build it yourself, so be forewarned. I did it alone over the course of a couple hours but I'd recommend having a friend help if you can. The stand is excellent quality and the top, as well as the sump chamber, is lined with a black heavy foam to allow the tanks to "settle" and absorb vibrations. It is all well-thought out. NOTE: the design of the stand is such that the front 1/2" of the tank, or so, hangs over the edge. Do not be alarmed! This is by design. This allows for the entire front of the tank and stand to be flush when the doors are closed.

The doors are soft-closing and easy to use. I put some magnetic child locks on mine to avoid children from getting in! It was easy, no problem there. The sump chamber is ample and fits a 24 gallon sump along with a 3.2 gallon ATO container. To the right of the sump there is a dividing wall and then a "dry" section for your storage and electronic equipment. Also, in this area, there is a large opening in the back large enough to really get in there and see/reach behind the tank if your tank is close to the wall or closed off from the sides (like mine). Unfortunately, this section does not include any shelving -- you are expected to DIY whatever it is that you want in there. It would have been nice if they had included some stock shelving options, but it's a small gripe.

The overflow system is ample. It is a "herbie" style with a primary and emergency drain. It has a few little Red Sea touches that help keep it more silent. It has a sort of diffuser that goes around the primary pipe so that the siphon always gets even flow. There is a gate valve below to adjust the siphon which works great. When making adjustments, be sure to make small moves at a time and give the system a few minutes to settle. What you are aiming for is a water level in your overflow that *just* touches the top of the emergency drain with no more than a slight trickle going down it. If you tune it right, it's completely silent. The return nozzle outlet leaves a bit to be desired though. It is a straight pipe that has a small radius of movement but you really can't avoid ending up with a powerful stream hitting your front glass. I purchased a 3/4" set of LocLine and replaced the stock return nozzle with a LocLine Y -- it is now perfect. All you need is a 3/4" LocLine male threaded adapter -- wrap it in 10 or so wraps of teflon tape and slip fit it where the old fitting was. Works beautifully.

The sump includes an overflow section which flows into two filter socks which then flows into a large middle section with ample room for a skimmer, refugium or both! I sectioned mine off with egg crate and put both a skimmer and fuge section in! There is a glass ATO container that fits on top of the return section and gravity feeds the return chamber via an adjustable float valve. This float valve, however, is not great. When it works, it works, but after a couple months I find that it gets clogged with salt creep every few days and I need to disconnect the tubing and blow into it to clear a path. If you are using a modern DC return pump that allows you to do a feed mode that dials down the power but doesn't back siphon into the sump, then this would be less of an issue. I am using a tried-and-true AC pump so during feed modes my sump fills up a bit and hence why my float valve experiences occasional clogging. I'll be replacing it with a Tunze Osmolator anyway and will convert the current ATO container section into a place for reactors or pumps.

All in all, I really couldn't have asked for more here. It gives you just enough to get you started, but not so much that you feel like you aren't building the tank that you want. I still picked all of my own equipment: lights, powerheads, skimmer, return pump, heaters, etc. But I was saved the hassle of building my own stand and drilling my own tank. And my DIY stuff would have never even come close to matching the quality of this set up anyway. It was well worth the money.

[Cheapreef]

Stand is Marine Epoxy coated, no issues at all there.

Filter socks are a odd size. But I found if you remove the holder a standard sock slides in without the holder. Personally I took the filter sock out as well as the sponge and ran neither.

ATO I used my own holding tank/ container, the stock ATO is laughable and would need refilling every 2 days depending on flow and surface agitation.

[smatter]

No problems with the stand whatsoever, it's solid. Use a filter cup instead of socks, they never need replacing. The ATO works great. I don't mind filling it every three days and like the failsafe of the small volume of water that can't flood my sump. At one point I added a high end ATO which I have since removed and went back to the simplicity of the stock one.

[KTwo]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

1) The wood stand is not just painted, it has a veneer on it that is completely waterproof. Red Sea didn't "forget" about the issues related to tanks and sumps, they handled it appropriately. You won't have to worry about issues here.

2) The filter socks are available via Red Sea, BRS and probably your LFS. And everywhere else that sells reef supplies. They are like $10/pair. Alternatively, you can use any other brand filter sock with some slight modification. To be honest though, most people end up removing the socks and only using them situationally. They are super easy to clean which is nice.

3) The size of the ATO in my 425XL meant I had to top it off every 3 days. It wasn't the size that bothered me as much as it was the gravity feed which could get clogged with salt sometimes. I, like most owners, moved on from the stock ATO and put a 10G container on the other side. Now I don't have to bother with the top off but once every 10 days or so

I have written up a detailed review before, so I will just paste it here:

Awesome information - thanks. The review is incredibly helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write that up (whenever you did it).

-K2

[KTwo]

Originally Posted by Cheapreef

ATO I used my own holding tank/ container, the stock ATO is laughable and would need refilling every 2 days depending on flow and surface agitation.

What's the general temp and humidity where you keep your tank? I will after reading some other feedback that this isn't quite the show stopper I thought it might be - for two reasons. One - less water to worry about flooding (as pointed out in some feedback in the thread below your post). Two - it seems that if I find that it's too small that it's not difficult to replace/augment to get more capacity.

Thanks for your input.
-K2

[KTwo]

Originally Posted by smatter

No problems with the stand whatsoever, it's solid. Use a filter cup instead of socks, they never need replacing. The ATO works great. I don't mind filling it every three days and like the failsafe of the small volume of water that can't flood my sump. At one point I added a high end ATO which I have since removed and went back to the simplicity of the stock one.

Good point about the smaller ATO. I think you're input has helped alleviate my concern about this.

-K2

[2000se]

Same here - agree with all above. No stand issues, don't run filter socks anymore, have a stand alone ATO system.

[Xandernfs]

Originally Posted by 2000se

Same here - agree with all above. No stand issues, don't run filter socks anymore, have a stand alone ATO system.

This^

I have a stand alone ATO with a 10g reservoir and refill once a week on my RSR250. I also ditched the socks and went to cups with matrix and filter pads. I love my RSR250!

[mako61]

stand is great.

I dont use the ATO. I thought was too small and in the way. I got a bigger external.

I use red sea filter socks. I tried others i havent found any that fit perfect. I just bought 20 on amazon which wasnt cheap. When they are all dirty I wash them in a machine with bleach and Sodium Percarbonate. Rinse/Soak them in RO water and hang dry. They last 2 or so months between washings.

The plumbing is a little non standard also. I never found a way to not have the barb on the return line input. I also use the 25mm to 3/4 loc line converter for the return nozzle.

[KTwo]

Originally Posted by Xandernfs

This^

I have a stand alone ATO with a 10g reservoir and refill once a week on my RSR250. I also ditched the socks and went to cups with matrix and filter pads. I love my RSR250!

So for the rest of you who are using a stand alone ATO... Is there some way to repurpose the integrated ATO? Besides just using it for some storage? I imagine there's no way to physically remove it so can I put it to good use to serve the greater good of my tank? Locate a skimmer or reactor or some other piece of gear I know nothing about?

K2

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[mako61]

Originally Posted by KTwo

So for the rest of you who are using a stand alone ATO... Is there some way to repurpose the integrated ATO? Besides just using it for some storage? I imagine there's no way to physically remove it so can I put it to good use to serve the greater good of my tank? Locate a skimmer or reactor or some other piece of gear I know nothing about?

K2

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i like having the space it frees up. I drilled mime to make a small refug, but i didnt like it. Its sitting on a shelf.

[KTwo]

Originally Posted by mako61

i like having the space it frees up. I drilled mime to make a small refug, but i didnt like it. Its sitting on a shelf.

So it can be removed?

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[smatter]

It's just a small glass tank that can be lifted out.

[solitude127]

Some people make the ATO the container a refugium

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[KTwo]

Originally Posted by solitude127

Some people make the ATO the container a refugium

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I'd been wondering about that. But the ATO is on top of the sump. Should the water from the tank hit the mechanical filtration before the refugium? Or do you just pump to the ATO/refugium?

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[SonoranReefer]

Originally Posted by KTwo

I really like the style of the Red Sea systems and the almost turn-key approach. I have a couple of hesitations though and wanted to get the collective's thoughts on them

1. Wood stand. I'm a firm believer that wood and water mix in only the rarest of cases. This isn't one where I believe they should meet. With a sump in the bottom the moisture concerns me, even with the marine grade paint that is used. Anyone have any problems or thoughts on that?

2. Filter socks. I've read the filter sock size used in the Red Sea sump can only be purchased from Red Sea. True? I hate single point failures/suppliers and would prefer a size that is widely available.

3. ATO size. Other owners have complained about the relatively small size of the ATO reservoir. Has this become problematic for anyone?

I don't think any of these three, individually, would sour me too much on purchasing one (if/when I finally purchase) but all three together, if all meet my already predisposed low opinion of them, might be enough to sway me from purchasing.

But I wanted the first hand experience/opinions of owners.

Thx
-K2

I know a few people who have had custom sumps/atos made for their Red Sea tanks and sold off the Red Sea supplied ones. So there is that option... BUt IMO thats a lot of hassle/cost for something that could have just been made custom to start with.

IMHO I love the quality of the actual RS tanks. They really are a nice product with some nice details. What I don't really like is the stand. It seems cheap to me personally. But I also am used to my solid maple Planet Aquariums stand which I do love. I'm sure the Red Sea stands are fine, as so many people own them and don't report problems. I just personally like the wood look vs the gloss black/white look.

[solitude127]

Originally Posted by KTwo

I'd been wondering about that. But the ATO is on top of the sump. Should the water from the tank hit the mechanical filtration before the refugium? Or do you just pump to the ATO/refugium?

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most people drill 2 bulkheads to the ATO container. 1 for a feed and 1 for a drain.

[chelskisw6]

Originally Posted by solitude127

most people drill 2 bulkheads to the ATO container. 1 for a feed and 1 for a drain.

Is there a DIY thread for the refugium?

[solitude127]

Originally Posted by chelskisw6

Is there a DIY thread for the refugium?

There used to be a huge thread in the forum section when Red Sea was a sponsor but unfortunately they are no longer a sponsor and that thread went bye bye.