Algae Scrubber Basics

[Horace]

Perhaps this has been covered in this almost 400 page thread, but im just curious why these ATS havent been designed as more of a "reactor", ie water tight and full of water, rather than these drip/spray designs that Ive been seeing. Is it a matter of cost/complexity? Would it have any benefit or drawback compared to these commonly seen drip/spray designs?

[jerseypete]

Originally Posted by Horace

Perhaps this has been covered in this almost 400 page thread, but im just curious why these ATS havent been designed as more of a "reactor", ie water tight and full of water, rather than these drip/spray designs that Ive been seeing. Is it a matter of cost/complexity? Would it have any benefit or drawback compared to these commonly seen drip/spray designs?

Well I just built a box that is watertight to put my ats in. But originally I just had it open. Was super cheap to try out without the box. Few pieces of pvc, plastic mesh. Maybe 8 dollars. 60 bucks for lights. So it worked great. So I decided to build a box for it. Cost me about 115 to build. uploadfromtaptalk1465913259206.jpg

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[Horace]

Originally Posted by jerseypete

Well I just built a box that is watertight to put my ats in. But originally I just had it open. Was super cheap to try out without the box. Few pieces of pvc, plastic mesh. Maybe 8 dollars. 60 bucks for lights. So it worked great. So I decided to build a box for it. Cost me about 115 to build. Attachment 352335

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Did the box help in any way? Was it more aesthetics or is it working better?

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[jerseypete]

Originally Posted by Horace

Did the box help in any way? Was it more aesthetics or is it working better?

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I don't worry about the splashing anymore. Always had a little salt spray on the lenses of the lights. Any without the box the light would shine on everything in the sump area. I was growing algea in some of my return, reactor lines. This way the light is more contained. But still works the same. But I am much happier with this.

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[Horace]

Originally Posted by jerseypete

I don't worry about the splashing anymore. Always had a little salt spray on the lenses of the lights. Any without the box the light would shine on everything in the sump area. I was growing algea in some of my return, reactor lines. This way the light is more contained. But still works the same. But I am much happier with this.

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That's kinda what I figured and I think by having the box full, it wouldn't get dirty salt buildup blocking the light. You probably still need to clean it like the tank glass, but seems like a more refined/clean solution to me

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[jerseypete]

Originally Posted by Horace

That's kinda what I figured and I think by having the box full, it wouldn't get dirty salt buildup blocking the light. You probably still need to clean it like the tank glass, but seems like a more refined/clean solution to me

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It's a nicer look. I had it the other way for 6 months. Just finally had time to do it this way. I think it looks better this way

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[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by Horace

Perhaps this has been covered in this almost 400 page thread, but im just curious why these ATS havent been designed as more of a "reactor", ie water tight and full of water, rather than these drip/spray designs that Ive been seeing. Is it a matter of cost/complexity? Would it have any benefit or drawback compared to these commonly seen drip/spray designs?

Generally, submerged substrates do not grow well without some kind of agitation, hence the UAS (bubbles).

There is a chaeto reactor called ARID that does what you are describing though.

[SantaMonica]

Just google upflow algae scrubber, that's what you are describing. It was invented 3 years after the waterfall, so the waterfall had more years to be read about.

Soon however I'll be posting the first improvements to the waterfall since 2008, completely eliminating most of the current problems with them.

[karimwassef]

My $0.02

The best ATS IMO is:

Light source
V
Air
V
Water/air boundary
V
Flowing water (reversing, varying is best)
V
Mesh

If you add a layer of glass/acrylic between the light and water, you get salt buildup and lose light

If you have water immediately behind the glass, you get cyano or algae buildup on the glass

Each tank is different, but the traditional waterfall works best for me. I've achieved varying flow. I still don't have reversed flow - and I think it's a big deal, but that's TBD.

[Horace]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

Just google upflow algae scrubber, that's what you are describing. It was invented 3 years after the waterfall, so the waterfall had more years to be read about.

Soon however I'll be posting the first improvements to the waterfall since 2008, completely eliminating most of the current problems with them.

How soon?

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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

Just google upflow algae scrubber, that's what you are describing. It was invented 3 years after the waterfall, so the waterfall had more years to be read about.

Soon however I'll be posting the first improvements to the waterfall since 2008, completely eliminating most of the current problems with them.

How soon is that soon? I'm interested in what you've done.

[SantaMonica]

Should be not too long... maybe a few weeks. The first one is focused on just plain simplicity and easy DIY, and is totally different from all styles ever made. Can't say much more about it yet though.

The one after that has direct improvements to the current waterfall styles. And the ones after that focus on improving other things, and are also different than anything ever made.

The first one though is probably the most use to the most people, because it's so easy. It actually came about accidentally while fine-tuning the other ones.

[karimwassef]

I took the lights down to add the blues... definitely some salt creep on the bottom (right of the image)

[karimwassef]

Ok. Here is the addition of blues:













reds are still on the way.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'll be interested if these work. They violate my "must have punch" rule of thumb.

[karimwassef]

Which? The blues? The total is over 50W now.

[karimwassef]

Here's the PAR reading. I think my mounting design at the top moved the light an inch or so back because the PAR reading dropped for the baseline case of cool white only LEDs to 280.

The blue LEDs added another 80 for a combined PAR of 360.

Still waiting on the adapter for the 200W CFL

[karimwassef]

it was in my mailbox... ok. here are the results of all the light comparisons

I decided to use a consistent test setup to minimize error:



120W CFL



200W CFL



45W CW LED



35W BLUE LED



80W combined CW LED and BLUE LED



That should be pretty consistent in terms of comparing light.. they're all 12" from light source to detector

[karimwassef]

120W CFL 105 PAR = 0.9 PAR/W
200W CFL 175 PAR = 0.9 PAR/W (really didn't expect them to be so close. The 200W is brand new)

45W (3.7A) CW 7020 LED 200 PAR = 4.5 PAR/W
35W (2.9A) BL 5630 LED 73 PAR = 2.1 PAR/W

80W (6.6A) BL + CW LED 276 PAR = 3.5 PAR/W

So the 7020s are really boss! Too bad they only come in CW and WW

Also... The light output and current both went down when I changed up my wiring. The longer the wire (more resistance), the lower the PAR and power...

[salty joe]

Have you seen Saran Wrap placed directly on the screen to block salt spray/creep?

[MaccaPopEye]

Just did cleaning #11 today so figured I'd do a quick growth pic like I did for cleaning #6 (can't be bothered waiting another 2 weeks to make it an even 12 haha).

Growth took off fast and was going ok until I stopped cleaning weekly and went to fortnightly and then the next couple of cleans were massive!

The amount of growth slowed down a bit but my tank is really well on the way to algae free now. Any algae left is in small clumps and still reducing. Compared to the whole tank being an algae carpet haha.

The last 4 cleanings have had very consistent growth (approx 35g after most of the water is squeezed out) and although the algae is really looking quite dark, thin and spread out the growth is consistent which is awesome.

I think it's really on the way to being properly mature. Now I'd really like to try and get the growth to be more green and longer. Any suggestions? Lights are the grey multichip ebay flood lights, 18on 6off flow is about the recommended goal (maybe a tiny bit under or over). Only thing I can think of its it is a 2 cube/day screen but I only feed half to 1 cube/day as I'm still coming back from the massive algae bloom.

(dates are day/month as they should be )


Bottom photo was a day or two after the scrubber went online and the top photo is about 2 weeks ago (I'm slowly moving most of the rocks down to the sump for a re-scape in new rock). In case anyone is interested the tank is approx 430L inc the sump. Was running algae free for about 8 months (I think around Aug 2015) then gha took over very fast. Added heaps of snails, increased gfo, upped water changes, new skimmer, manual removal nothing seemed to help over the next few months. I used to do a 15% water change every week but after putting the scrubber on in Feb 2016 I got busy and now do one every 3-4 weeks. I also have a skimmer (sc1350) and now run seachem seagel (changed way less often than I should )


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[karimwassef]

Yes. I've actually done that (Saran wrap).

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2467324
Post #11

And
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...php?p=23064722
Post #369

It does degrade with long term heat exposure. It also acts as a blanket stopping the metal plate from cooling down (unless the back is planned to be open, etc...)

I did find a source for shape able clear semi-rigid plastic sheet but I really don't want a salty crust mess to constantly clean. I'm actually reconsidering taking the screen down and redoing it all with the stretchy elastic string to avoid the splashing effects of the zip ties.

If I can just convince my 9yr old that it would be a kickass summer arts and crafts project... She can stitch as well as I can....

[karimwassef]

hmm.. after a couple of days, my screen is turning brown in the roughest areas



And more towards the bottom that is occasionally more submerged





It doesn't look like algae... more like dirt... thoughts?

I don't have mechanical filtration in the tank, unless you count my skimmer... so only water changes and export can remove relatively large and non-organic particles in the tank (like sand or dirt).

I recently ran a cycle of chemiclean to remove some messy cyano due to my insect problem overloading on top of my heavy feeding. It worked great and removed the cyano, but I think the dirty brown sandy stuff is a bi-product? The theory is that the dying cyano coalesces into this dirty brown sandy stuff and now it's coating the roughest parts of the screens.

should I remove and clean the screen or just let it go?

[Hal]

Just curious, those of you with scrubbers, how did that affect your cleanup crew, especially snails?

[karimwassef]

the snails and crabs always trying to break into the scrubbers... but I have blockades to keep them back. They're fine though. I have 12 large tangs and they're fine too.