Let's Talk About Water Movement in an SPS Tank.

[Xx_de_xX]

Originally posted by Valab
I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

My fish didn't like it and ended up trying to hang out in the "sump", which they didn't like either.

[Julio]

i have one stream in my tank and is in the top of the tank, the anthias love the current and my clowns do as well as they hang out in it all the time, all the other fish swim all over.

[David P]

reefnroll: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg...dloopsmall.jpg
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

I have about 30x turn over in my tank, I have a flameback angel, pair of ocelleris clowns, bi colored blenny, rabbit fish, and a lawnmower blenny. All fish seem to enjoy the jets of water coming out of the 1.5 ports at almost 3000 gph. They turn it into a game, all of the smaller fish (not the angel or rabbit) take turns hiding in the ports when the water is off then geting shot across the tank like a human cannonball when the blast of water comes. The angel doesnt seem to care at all about the current, but I dont think the rabbit likes it too much. Hes too tall and flat, if he swims by when the curent changes, you see him swim sideways for a second then swims really fast to get out of the jet.

[reefnroll]

Hey David -

Oh yeah... I remember seeing that set-up on the OM thread (I think). Nice plumbing job; and It's great that the fish enjoy the ride but how are the corals looking and handling that 30x turnover flow?

bec

[JB NY]

Sorry, been on vacation this week, so I was on and off line a lot.

When talking about 10X, 20x and 50x turnover. I think it is much easier to achieve those really high (30x and higher) rates when the tank is relatively new. As the corals grow large they end up closer to the powerhead outputs. Making them either cut off flow to other or they run the possibility of self destructing due to being too close to the powerhead output. Turnover rates of around 15X to 20X seem to be more common in more mature tanks. That's why I first posted on what the flow around the corals should look like. regardless of what kind of turnover you have the main thing to keep in mind is the coral needs to have good flow all around it.

FWIW I have 21X turnover in my tank.

RGibson. I don't know what I would do with a new tank. I would definitely look into those Ocean Motion units that Bec was writing about.Also those new wave boxes that Tunze is coming out with. I also find the tunze stream moves water completely to the other side of my tank (6 feet).

[herbert4]

I have a plumbing question for the best flow.

First of all here is what I have:
1) 135gal tank 72"L x 18"W x 24"T
2) sump/refug under stand
3) CL with a 4way Oceansmotions powered by a Sequence Dart
4) The tank will be viewed on 3 sides
5) On the blind side I have 3 holes drilled for the overflow to Sump (brown)
6) Each corner of bottom is drilled for returns from CL (blue) it will be plumbed to have 2 returns on right flow then the 2 on left, creating an alternating side to side flow with the 4way.
7) I want a mixed reef with a few fish.



My question(s) are:
1) would it be best for sump return to go where the red circles are?
2) Would a spraybar (green) be a good idea here, thinking it would be under rock / corals.
3) Would the CL supply work where the pink circles are?


any suggestions / comments would be very helpful. Remember the brown and blue holes are already drilled.

Thanks in advance.

[F8LPONY]

I wonder if in setting up a new tank where you can't watch polyp movement and such if it would be helpful to add a tiny bit of air to your main outlet line so that small bubbles are created and pushed into the tank where they will swirl around and you can kinda map out the flow and help you to direct your outlet tubes.

Or maybe a simple air pump with an airstone on it in the tank?

[massman]

F8LPONY dropping flake food in will give you a good idea of the water movement.

[JB NY]

Injecting some air will work. But the main problem IMO is flow throughout the tank. You just need to spend some time watching the corners and any corals in places to make sure they are all getting good flow. The air can help, but I think you can do it well without using air.

[mikefish]

Well, I just got the closed loop completed - the last phase of my flow upgrade project for my 135. I now have 2 Tunze 6100's, a Sequence Stingray on the closed loop going through an Oceans Motion HD 4-way, and a Little Giant 5MD returning water from the sump. I think that's a theoretical turnover of 82x! Of course, the Tunzes are set up on tide simulation so only 1 are on at any one time, and then alternate between 30 and 80% flow. And the Sequence is throttled back a bit as well. The LG is working against about a 10ft head as my sump is in the basement. In practice I'm probably looking at about 40-50x turnover.

The fish are 2 Zebrasomas tangs and an Idol, and they don't seem to mind. They fight it and get knocked around a bit, but they don't make any effort to hide from it. Sometimes they seem to fight it for fun. The corals (all sps) aren't complaining yet. So much flow seemed strange at first, because I'd never seen it in an aquarium like that. But when I started looking at it as a real reef and not an aquarium, it suddenly fit.
Mike

[Zigzag Man]

Wow, what a great idea for a thread... water movement is probably one of the most important aspects of having a healthy reef next to lighting.

It'll probably be easiest to explain my setup by showing a picture of it first.



I have 4 MJ-1200s, 2 Seio 820s, and a split return that pushes about 1000gph or so off a Mag 18.
Like was mentioned by other members, everything banks off the glass except for one of my powerheads which points at a downward angle to break up the flow and keep my frogspawn and hammer from getting blasted.
I also run everything up high, and have my rockwork relatively low, so that there's hardly any obstruction of the water flow (at least at the moment). I get nice eddies and currents throughout the tank running it this way, and all polyps on my SPS are moving from top to bottom.
The fish love it... don't have any problems with them trying to hide or avoid the currents.

Someone was asking how to temper the flow of a MJ-1200 in a previous post (not sure who ATM), but if you look at the furthest right MJ-1200, I have a homemade eductor on one.
Here's a side view shot:



Now it doesn't get near the flow gain of a mixing eductor (a 5:1 ratio), but it does get 'some' extra movement. It was relatively simple to build as well, and only has 3 main parts. a 3/4" coupling, a 1/2" coupling, and a small section of 1/2" pipe. None of it is glued, and the small piece of pipe is fit to the volute of the MJ-1200 with a piece of 1/2" ID tubing (press fit inside the 1/2" pipe). It sucks microbbles in from approximately 1" to 1-1/2" away, so that leads me to believe that it's actually working, just not as efficiently as a mixing eductor on a high-pressure pump would. To get to the point, rather than a high-velocity blast coming out of the eductor, it's more of a gentle narrowly focused beam of water, which doesn't fan out as much as a powerhead without the eductor.
I'm still in the observation stages, but am about to construct another for the MJ-1200 that doesn't have the flow director on it... at least it was cheap to build, about 50 cents for the two couplings, and figure in some extra for 1/2" pipe and tubing if you don't have any laying around.

So far I've been very happy with the flow in my tank, detritus stays in the water column for the most part, and the SPS are all growing like crazy. Plus, the SPS are getting thicker branches and plates, which leads me to believe that I'm getting the adequate amount of flow.

OK... the novel's done...

[herbert4]

nice idea zigzag,

Sorry I have been away for a few days, thanks for the above posts about flow. My concern is really where to drill the last few holes to give the best possible chances of good flow. After all that is done then I can actually put water in and try your suggestions.

SO do the spots I indicated in my origional post seem like good spots for the remaining holes to be drilled?

Thanks

[yellowtruck75]

The next big project for my 125 is a nice closed loop. So far I have 3, 802's in my tank spread out across the back and a closed loop which is run from a Mag 7 into a SCWD which I am not happy with at all. I am saving my money for my Ocean Motion 4 way with a Sequence Dart to power it. How does that sound for my SPS dominated tank? I might keep the SCWD closed loop to run behind the rock.

[yellowtruck75]

Would this be too much flow with 3 clams and a few LPS in my tank?

[AlgaeMan]

I just added a Tunze 6200 and was very impressed with the results. My tank is 6' and I had to turn the thing down to 30% and set on/off every 10 seconds. I was using two 6000's, but the corals have grown a good bit and there were more and more dead spots. So now I'm using a 6000 on one side and 6200 on the other.

[TurboRook]

Originally posted by yellowtruck75
Would this be too much flow with 3 clams and a few LPS in my tank?

I think this would be great. With the Dart and Oceans Motion, I would set it up so that flow was coming through at least 2 outlets at all times, though. It would probably be too much flow having all 2000gph+ coming out of just 1 outlet, even for a few seconds at a time.

[birdman204]

Originally posted by Valab
I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

My fish love it. I am running 2 tunze streams on a multi controller (1850 GPH each), and my mag 12 return from the sump on a scwd in a 90 G tank. I've been able to keep 4 squamapinnis in the tank with 7 other fisg... They rarely fight, I believe part of that is due to the heavy constantly switching flow. My female perc body surfs in them.... she swims as hard as she can into the stream, and then darts out and coasts another 14 - 20 inches with out paddling. She does this quite often, as though she is enjoying it. The yellow tang, fine (providing a good diet) , 3 chromis , a four line wrasse, and a black cap basslet all really seem to APPRECIATE the heavy flow.

[RGibson]

How much time do each of the tunze streams run?

[mathman]

Is there some neat trick to "spread" the flow out of 3/4" elbow? I have strong movement from my closed loop, but I would like it to be a wider projection of water. I tried a 1" elbow, but it is still a narrow jet of water, just a 1/4" wider.

[reef10]

I have heard the boiling the fitting will make it soft enough to shape. People have used pliers to open it up and form into a nozzle. I have made a u tube for an over flow using this method but never a nozzle. I was using white pvc.

[birdman204]

Originally posted by RGibson
How much time do each of the tunze streams run?

All day and all night. they switch about every 90 seconds, and run at 50% power at night, and pulse back and forth between 50% and 100% when the halides are on.

[RGibson]

Thank you-birdman 204

[birdman204]

I have a question.
I need help planning the water movement in a 600 gallon tank, Tank - 7x4x3
Most likely all the bells and whistles... It needs to be somewhat automated. I will be running a geosapper device on the tank for main feeding with occasional supplemental feeding. Most likely 2 skimmers. A CA reactor. A chiller. for the most part , I believe I will be running a bare sump, and if room permits, a spare holding vessel of 20-80G or so for LR.
But I am stumped as far as water movement, I will use tunze streams, but I'd like to get away with 2 instead of 4 or 8 for asthetic purposes.... What are my options here for a high flow environment. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[herbert4]

birdman,
Have you seen the OceansMotions they have an excellent wave maker with either 4 outlets (4way) or 8 outlets (8way)?

Thier web address is oceansmotions.com
These offer great amounts of flow depending on your pumps.
They also have excellent customer service!

there is a thread on here, wavemaker

Good luck

[birdman204]

Thanks Herbert, I'm sold