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Unread 05/24/2018, 02:36 PM   #1
Daddi0
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I want polyp extension!!

I have approx. 200 corals and while some get polyp extension at night when I feed, most of my acros have very little to none.
I run 2 - 60 gallon reefs that are plumbed together with a 30g sump (skimmer and chaeto) and 30g cryptic refugium. I dose Red Sea energy A/B every morning with some Coral Frenzy. I have approx. 20 fish (a cube of Marine delight daily) and none bother the corals. I dose kalk with vinegar and I run MarsAqua 300w over each reef.
I was thinking flat worms was an issue but a friend that dipped one of my corals found no pests.
I have low nitrates/phosphate
Alk is 10.5 and 480 calcium and high mag.
Any input on steps I could do to get more polyps would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 05/24/2018, 05:29 PM   #2
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So just to be sure that the issue is not pest related, I pulled out a Miami Orchid Acro colony about the size of my hand and washed it in Revive. I let it soak for 8 minutes while using the turkey baster on it, and there were no pests.


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Unread 05/24/2018, 06:27 PM   #3
Sam2832
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Hi, how is your coloration?, growth rate?
Some sps species dont have great polyp extension to begin with.
Also i read that when your alk and ca are very high you should try to keep n and p higher, like n 5-10 and p 0.02-0.04 to achieve a more balanced system. Good luck
https://reefs.com/magazine/skeptical...eeping-ix-130/


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Unread 05/24/2018, 06:45 PM   #4
Daddi0
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Coloration is fair and could have a little more pop. but I am focusing right now on polyp extension. The polyp issue is with a lot of my acros ( Miyagi, Cali Tort, Paletta Pink tip, Purple rain, Walt Disney, Copps CalaCali, Red Table, Aussie Gold Acro, Tri-color Valida.......) I do feed the corals to make up for low N&P. I feed 15ml Red Sea Energy A&B and 5/8 tsp. Coral Frenzy daily.
Perhaps a lighting issue?
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 05/25/2018, 10:03 AM   #5
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I have started to dose N03 to see if it will help my growth and coloration. Too soon to tell. My goal is to keep the nitrates at about 2 and the phosphates .2 per the BRS adjusted Redfield ratio. Currently my PO4 is only .04 which means my NO3 should only be .4. Anyone else following this ration of 10:1, nitrates to phosphates?


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Unread 05/25/2018, 10:28 AM   #6
Tripod1404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTL View Post
I have started to dose N03 to see if it will help my growth and coloration. Too soon to tell. My goal is to keep the nitrates at about 2 and the phosphates .2 per the BRS adjusted Redfield ratio. Currently my PO4 is only .04 which means my NO3 should only be .4. Anyone else following this ration of 10:1, nitrates to phosphates?
Where that 10:1 is coming from? I have heard people keeping it within Redfield ratio 16:1, but even that is not something proven to provide anything postive for a reef tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddi0 View Post
I have approx. 200 corals and while some get polyp extension at night when I feed, most of my acros have very little to none.
I run 2 - 60 gallon reefs that are plumbed together with a 30g sump (skimmer and chaeto) and 30g cryptic refugium. I dose Red Sea energy A/B every morning with some Coral Frenzy. I have approx. 20 fish (a cube of Marine delight daily) and none bother the corals. I dose kalk with vinegar and I run MarsAqua 300w over each reef.
I was thinking flat worms was an issue but a friend that dipped one of my corals found no pests.
I have low nitrates/phosphate
Alk is 10.5 and 480 calcium and high mag.
Any input on steps I could do to get more polyps would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers! Mark

About PE, no one is really sure why acros show or dont show PE. PE increases their surface area and aid photosynthesis, it allows them to catch prey and improves gas exchange. But even than its hard to predict why or why not they show PE. Some might show high PE in high flow and no PE in low flow, other will do the opposite. Same way some will have high PE in high light, other will not show PE in high light, or only the shaded parts of the colony will have PE. Another theory is that they will have more PE in high nutrient water so that zoox have more surface to grow on and since they have more energy to spare. But other say the opposite by indicating they have more PE in low nutrient conditions to catch prey and supplement their algae. Its fair to say PE is not something essential, and I doubt it really indicates anything about the health (unless an acro that had PE loses it overnight or something). I assume PE is a combination of all these, and since it is not essential, some acros do not show it unless they must need to. Some species like bushy acropora millepora are more likely to show PE, if you like PE, get those species.


I dived a lot around coral reefs, and no acro will show PE during the day in nature. Same way, if you have maricultures or wild collected acros, they tend to not show PE or just show it during the night. Acros that show best PE are mostly aqua cultured corals. I think people artificially selected this by fraging branches that have the best PE and propagating those. Even then, if some fish nips at them even few times, they might lose PE for months.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 10:42 AM   #7
JTL
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[QUOTE=Tripod1404;25443605]Where that 10:1 is coming from? I have heard people keeping it within Redfield ratio 16:1, but even that is not something proven to provide anything postive for a reef tank.


https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...k-trials-ep20/

Info is somewhere around the 14:40 mark.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 01:14 PM   #8
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Yea, my corals look healthy otherwise. Just seems some reefs have insane extension which I think looks better. I guess I will not worry too much about it. While I was researching lighting I came upon a scientific study that looked at the motility of algae in a coral. I had my lights at blue for 3 hours, then whites on also for 6 hours, with another 2 hours of blue only. And after reading the data, I changed to 30 minutes blue, whites on also for another 5 1/2 hours, then just blue for another hour and a half. According to the research, I had my blues on too long before whites and I was missing giving them enough light as the motility was peaking.
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 05/25/2018, 01:23 PM   #9
JTL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddi0 View Post
Yea, my corals look healthy otherwise. Just seems some reefs have insane extension which I think looks better. I guess I will not worry too much about it. While I was researching lighting I came upon a scientific study that looked at the motility of algae in a coral. I had my lights at blue for 3 hours, then whites on also for 6 hours, with another 2 hours of blue only. And after reading the data, I changed to 30 minutes blue, whites on also for another 5 1/2 hours, then just blue for another hour and a half. According to the research, I had my blues on too long before whites and I was missing giving them enough light as the motility was peaking.
Cheers! Mark
I have messing with my lights too much lately in an attempt to find the "right" setting. I have very little blue only and then only at 5% intensity, almost moon lighting. Mostly my white is only 17% of blues. I am not sure what the graph you posted means.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 01:47 PM   #10
Daddi0
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I have messing with my lights too much lately in an attempt to find the "right" setting. I have very little blue only and then only at 5% intensity, almost moon lighting. Mostly my white is only 17% of blues. I am not sure what the graph you posted means.
The graph is time from lights turning on and motility of zooxanthelle on the left side. I am running my MarsAqua 300watt fixtures at 70% and 70% blue


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Unread 05/25/2018, 02:54 PM   #11
JTL
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The graph is time from lights turning on and motility of zooxanthelle on the left side. I am running my MarsAqua 300watt fixtures at 70% and 70% blue
Too much white for my eyes but it shouldn't hurt anything.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 04:20 PM   #12
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What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?


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Unread 05/25/2018, 04:33 PM   #13
Daddi0
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Too much white for my eyes but it shouldn't hurt anything.
I rarely get to see the reefs in "daylight" They are in the garage and I dont often make it home before the whites turn off.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 04:34 PM   #14
Daddi0
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What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?
I am dosing vinegar so they are very low. This is why I feed often.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 05:14 PM   #15
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I am dosing vinegar so they are very low. This is why I feed often.
Ok, but what are they?


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Unread 05/25/2018, 05:30 PM   #16
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200 corals? Did you quarantine all 200? I would not rule out pests from dipping 1/200 corals, unless you quarantined all of them...


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Unread 05/25/2018, 05:49 PM   #17
JTL
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200 corals? Did you quarantine all 200? I would not rule out pests from dipping 1/200 corals, unless you quarantined all of them...
Very few quarantine corals. Dip and go.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 05:51 PM   #18
Daddi0
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Ok, but what are they?
Nitrates are less than 5 and Phos. is .25ppm


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Unread 05/25/2018, 05:59 PM   #19
Daddi0
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200 corals? Did you quarantine all 200? I would not rule out pests from dipping 1/200 corals, unless you quarantined all of them...
No quarantine (or dip). When we started reefing we didnt know about dipping or quarantine. I really dont think we have pests. Just to be sure, I repeated the process on 2 more corals and nothing washed off. Then I pulled another acro out and carefully inspected every nook and cranny under good magnification and no pests. We do have an acro crab, wrasses, and Springer Damsels.
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 05/25/2018, 06:16 PM   #20
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Very few quarantine corals. Dip and go.
parasites will impact polyp extension, and dipping once will not kill eggs, with 200 corals its hard to rule that out unless you quarantined, you could always combine all your acros, montis etc in separate tanks and dip for 6-8 weeks, then you can rule out parasites causing your issue. The livestock you have will help keep them in check but not totally eliminate them.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 06:19 PM   #21
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Nitrates are less than 5 and Phos. is .25ppm
That's not what I would consider to be low phosphate and I would look at getting that down quite a bit.

If you have low nutrient levels, which I don't particularly think yours are, then I would want lower alkalinity.

If I were you I would be gradually letting alkalinity drop while getting phosphate levels down.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 06:33 PM   #22
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On my small tanks aggressive 50% water changes weekly tends to get all the corals hot and bothered. The tank parameters match my fresh salt water so it's not a big deal to swap out alot.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 07:13 PM   #23
Daddi0
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Quote:
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parasites will impact polyp extension, and dipping once will not kill eggs, with 200 corals its hard to rule that out unless you quarantined, you could always combine all your acros, montis etc in separate tanks and dip for 6-8 weeks, then you can rule out parasites causing your issue. The livestock you have will help keep them in check but not totally eliminate them.
You're right, I will continue to check for parasites. The corals are all healthy and look good, just no polyp extension.


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Unread 05/25/2018, 07:18 PM   #24
Daddi0
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That's not what I would consider to be low phosphate and I would look at getting that down quite a bit.

If you have low nutrient levels, which I don't particularly think yours are, then I would want lower alkalinity.

If I were you I would be gradually letting alkalinity drop while getting phosphate levels down.
I think you are right on the phosphate reduction. I am going to stop feeding the daily Coral Frenzy and continue with just the Red Sea Energy A&B. As for Alk. , my target is 10 -11dkh
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 05/25/2018, 07:20 PM   #25
Daddi0
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On my small tanks aggressive 50% water changes weekly tends to get all the corals hot and bothered. The tank parameters match my fresh salt water so it's not a big deal to swap out alot.
I can't do 90 gallons a week


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