|
03/14/2018, 04:35 PM | #26 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,821
|
Quote:
IMO another factor that makes ich more dangerous in closed systems is higher amount of nutrients within the water. I dont know if there are any studies that show much nitrate and phosphate ich can absorb from the water, or how much it changes the growth rate, but every single celled organisms (and most marine multicellular organisms) can absorb nutrients from the water. There are also some evidence from the hobby suggesting ich is more prolific in aquariums with high nitrate (a common advise for living with ich; "keep nitrate levels low"). Higher nutrients is also a bigger problem for younger tanks and less of a problem for mature tanks. So younger tanks have more nutrients for ich to grow on and less micro-fauna and filter feeders to keep its population in check . If you add fish to that mix (as a dded bonus for ich, these conditions will also stress fish), ich can reach plague levels very fast before fish have time to develop immunity. In mature tanks, nutrients are low and there is predator pressure on ich population. So population cannot reach plague levels. Fish have the chance to develop acquired immunity against ich. So the ich infection levels drop to the basal rate found in the wild. |
|
03/14/2018, 10:34 PM | #27 |
Registered Member.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 2,789
|
Yes I never believed the theory of it living in its gills Yes we know Fish carry ich in there gills in the wild, but if this disease is so deadly and dangerous how on earth are my fish still living after 3 years living with it. You would think their gills would be devastated by now. Yes I argee in the op case that looks like a bad case. My tangs usually have s few spots on them and are still swimming and eating like pigs
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
03/15/2018, 12:14 PM | #28 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 100
|
Quote:
A heater to keep it warm. A filter for water quality No substrate needed No live rocks needed A piece or two of PVC pipe, elbow or something washable for a shelter A canister filter or hang on is fine. |
|
03/17/2018, 05:48 PM | #29 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 38
|
Hey gang...love all the participation on the thread...thank you...update, 1 of the cardinals perished. His fins seemed to melt away..i tried to catch him and take him to the lfs for treatment but was unable to catch him. So went to the shop, came home, did a major water change (40%) and he did not do well with that...started having buoyancy problems and just didn't make it...That said, the other cardinal who had ich seems to be doing just fine. I guess this whole episode has taught me a few things. A - it seems that fish can live with ich. It's a roll of the dice, but true nonetheless. B - i think I way overreacted to the presence of ich in the tank. In attempting to solve this with Ruby Reef Kick Ich, I was told to raise the temp of my tank to 86 degrees, turn off my skimmer and remove the carbon from my canister filter. All of this resulted in my royal gramma dying (most likely from the heat), killing a decent amount of the coraline algae on my live rock and jacking my water chemistry up in the process. I actually spoke to the Ruby Reef people about their product and told them I was advised to raise tempt to 86 degrees. To be fair to them, they disavowed this and suggested i got bad advice from the lfs that suggested I do that. Still, if I had to do this over, I probably would have just not done anything and let the ich take its course since in the end the lfs advised against sacrificing water chemistry for ich treatment. Mind the corals which I've spent more money on than fish...
Anyway, I could spend about $300 - 400 to set up a decent QT and then let my DT go fallow for 3 months. I could also just take my fish to the lfs and let my DT go fallow for 3 months. If I wanted to eradicate ich, I'd do one of those, and 3 months seems to be what most agree upon for a good fallow period. However, my wife thinks that we shouldn't be trading in our "pets." Now, I'm inclined to save the $300 -400 for a QT setup and just buy new fish when and if the current inhabitants die from ich. Maybe they won't...? |
03/17/2018, 06:36 PM | #30 |
Crab Free Zone
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,906
|
Sometimes when you do less, you actually do more.
It is always preferable to not use meds on our fish, fighting it on their own can bring better results and a more immune fish. My QT was $50 bucks, $25 for a glass 20g, $15 for a small heater, $10 for sponge filter. Used a desk lamp for light. 72 days is the very safe standard for DT fallow, some do it in less. |
03/17/2018, 07:21 PM | #31 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 38
|
Uncle...I would intend to keep my fish in the QT for 3 months as well - hence the need for something larger than a 20g...do you agree?
|
03/17/2018, 07:25 PM | #32 |
Registered Member.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 2,789
|
You don’t need to qt your fish 90 days. That’s is excessive
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
03/17/2018, 07:31 PM | #33 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 38
|
So if I’m letting my DT go fallow for 3 months...where would I put the fish during that time?
|
03/17/2018, 09:00 PM | #34 |
Registered Member.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kings Park, NY
Posts: 2,789
|
I would just leave those fish alone. I am not a fan of leaving your tab fallow for 72 days. Every coral or frag you put into your tank also would have to be in a fish less system for 72 days or all your work would be for not. Keep your water clean. Feed your fish well and try to only buy fish that been at lfs a couple week or qt new arrivals
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
03/18/2018, 02:07 PM | #35 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 38
|
I'm guessing the other cardinal is about to succumb?
So one of the cardinals died the other day. I thought the second might make it but then I notice this lesion developing today. Bizarre. Never seen a lesion like this on a fish. Spots, yes. Lesion, no. Anything special or what you might expect from ich?
card.jpg |
03/19/2018, 12:13 PM | #36 |
Crab Free Zone
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,906
|
I have not seen that in ich, actually, I had not seen a strain of Ick that looked so big on a fish, but pictures can be deceiving...learn something new everyday
|
03/19/2018, 12:26 PM | #37 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,313
|
Think I spent like 100$ total on my 40 breeder QT. Plenty big enough for all 10 of my fish for the 72 days.
A QT doesn't have to be an elaborate setup. A tank of some sort that will hold water, heater, and air stone is all thats needed. When I first started I kept my clowns in a 5 gallon bucket for 72 days, changing water every couple days with 0 problems. FWIW, I just lost all my fish due to ich. It came in on a snail shell from a CUC replenishment. Wiped out my entire livestock in 4 days.
__________________
80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work" |
03/19/2018, 12:39 PM | #38 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,821
|
Quote:
When ich parasites leave the host fish, they puncture the skin. This makes them susceptible to pathogens that attack open wounds (such as uronema or certain bacteria). |
|
03/20/2018, 12:28 PM | #39 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 38
|
Thanks all...I lost one of my clowns...went from 8 fish down to 4 in like a week. I think I'm going to set up a QT though will try to do as cheap as possible....buy a 40-50g tank off craigslist then filter and heater new.
I was thinking about trying a 20-30 g QT set up by my LFS said that for more than 4 fish (where I will be in the future), that would be too small for an extended isolation period... Many thanks again to all for the feedback! |
03/20/2018, 02:12 PM | #40 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,821
|
Quote:
|
|
Tags |
cardinal fish, ich advice, kick ich |
|
|