Soft or Hard Plumbing?

Bryan3536 · 02/08/2018, 07:06 PM

I am plumbing a 180g tank to a 75g sump. I am going to have two S1 vectra pumps for my returns, located outside sump (putting bulkheads in). I don’t want noise by I do want longevity/reliability. Where would you hard plumb with pvc versus using softer tubes? Was thinking pvc for drain, and tube on the return side to try to minimize pump noise etc. right move?

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AlSimmons · 02/08/2018, 07:11 PM

Can't they both work? Then again they both can break/fail too though... Definitely do the research and see what people have to say before the water starts running. (odds) It's kind of like Roulette... You just have to pick a number. GL.

Reef noob_ · 02/08/2018, 07:33 PM

I’ve always done pvc on drains and soft tube into pvc on return.

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Bryan3536 · 02/08/2018, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reef noob_

I’ve always done pvc on drains and soft tube into pvc on return.

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Thanks that’s what I was thinking.

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AlSimmons · 02/08/2018, 08:18 PM

Sounds like you've already picked a number...

mako61 · 02/08/2018, 08:29 PM

I did silicone tubing from return to manifold. Its works very nice, its not cheap but you dont need much.

Shamous113 · 02/09/2018, 06:48 AM

Use the spa flex hose, when you connect it to the rigid pvc always use primer before the glue.

homer1475 · 02/09/2018, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reef noob_

i’ve always done pvc on drains and soft tube into pvc on return.

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+1

billdogg · 02/09/2018, 08:09 AM

I use regular PVC for everything except a couple of ~12" pieces of vinyl (or silicone) tubing between the pump(s) and the pvc or bulkheads to minimize vibrations. IME, soft tubing has the potential to kink, reducing flow. It will also grow algae on the inside if it is exposed to any lighting, further reducing flow. Another big plus to PVC is that you minimize (or eliminate) the need for barbed fittings which greatly reduce flow. That can be overcome by using oversized fittings but that can become rather cumbersome.

allendehl · 02/09/2018, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

I use regular PVC for everything except a couple of ~12" pieces of vinyl (or silicone) tubing between the pump(s) and the pvc or bulkheads to minimize vibrations. IME, soft tubing has the potential to kink, reducing flow. It will also grow algae on the inside if it is exposed to any lighting, further reducing flow. Another big plus to PVC is that you minimize (or eliminate) the need for barbed fittings which greatly reduce flow. That can be overcome by using oversized fittings but that can become rather cumbersome.

+1 in the vibrations.

I tried to go fancy and used red PVC for everything I could in my Red See 350 to shortly after remove the return and go back to the flexible tubing that comes with the set. Noise was not laud but steady and incredibly annoying. No big deal, 9/10 people enjoy more looking at my tank that at its underwear.

mitch91175 · 02/09/2018, 08:37 AM

I personally use PVC for everything except feeding reactors. Figure those are the only things that will potentially change due to proper planning of the PVC plumbing. The key is that I plumbed a manifold for system expansion so no need to mess with the PVC again.

ca1ore · 02/09/2018, 09:15 AM

Vectra is a very quiet pump. I'd be surprised if you have any vibrations problems. I've switched completely over to ultra flex PVC for both drains and returns. Avoids the inconvenience of elbows and barb fittings. Vectra is pressure-impaired, so anything you can do to reduce friction losses would be helpful.

Bryan3536 · 02/12/2018, 06:33 PM

I went with all hard plumbing, partly out of necessity - I tried to drill the sump, which the manufacturers website said was not tempered, and guess what? Removed my baffles and went right out and redid the sump, but I wasn’t about to risk it again. Pumps went inside the sump and I hard plumbed the returns with lots of unions. Noise is negligible and cannot be heard at all from viewing room. Very happy with pumps. Tank manufacturer, not so much.

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Reef noob_ · 02/12/2018, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan3536

I went with all hard plumbing, partly out of necessity - I tried to drill the sump, which the manufacturers website said was not tempered, and guess what? Removed my baffles and went right out and redid the sump, but I wasn’t about to risk it again. Pumps went inside the sump and I hard plumbed the returns with lots of unions. Noise is negligible and cannot be heard at all from viewing room. Very happy with pumps. Tank manufacturer, not so much.

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This is exactly why I am nervous about drilling a tank.

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Deefish714 · 02/13/2018, 04:03 AM

Soft tubing and flex hose for drain. Keep it simple

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Bryan3536 · 02/20/2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reef noob_

This is exactly why I am nervous about drilling a tank.

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I blame myself a bit. For my 180g DT (which I also drilled) I did the polarized sunglasses test and called the manufacturer before drilling. For the sump, I looked at the tank manufacturer’s table and drilled away. Shame on them, but I should have confirmed with sunglasses.

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davocean · 02/20/2018, 11:19 AM

Hard plumbing always looks better, but I prefer spaflex and or braided hose myself, usually less unions/elbows needed and the sweeping lines are usually quieter.

Thornbreaker · 02/20/2018, 03:33 PM

Can you put a gate valve on the spaflex pvc?

mitch91175 · 02/20/2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornbreaker

Can you put a gate valve on the spaflex pvc?

You can put a gate value on anything really. You just have to plan the plumbing.

Thornbreaker · 02/20/2018, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch91175

You can put a gate value on anything really. You just have to plan the plumbing.

Thanks, didn't know if that would compromise the softer pvc or the valve.

mitch91175 · 02/20/2018, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornbreaker

Thanks, didn't know if that would compromise the softer pvc or the valve.

When you connect them together, just use something to tighten the PVC coming from the value to the tube and you should be set. You can search Amazon for "tube fastening clip" and you will see what I am referring to.

HBtank · 02/20/2018, 04:09 PM

With a larger tank I would go with mostly hard plumbing and lots of unions. Spaflex in certain spots to make final leads to pumps etc..

Pet Detective · 02/21/2018, 06:35 PM

I always use soft, easier to maintain, clean, replace, less chance of leaks [no joints, unions etc.], versatility ie. running my return wherever I want very easily, not mention waaaaay cheaper and less noisy, never ever had an issue since nineteen and ninety two. I do also use swing check valves on my 250g even though my 2 wet drys could handle the siphon and then some if the power goes out.

02/08/2018, 07:06 PM	#1
Bryan3536 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 50	Soft or Hard Plumbing? I am plumbing a 180g tank to a 75g sump. I am going to have two S1 vectra pumps for my returns, located outside sump (putting bulkheads in). I don’t want noise by I do want longevity/reliability. Where would you hard plumb with pvc versus using softer tubes? Was thinking pvc for drain, and tube on the return side to try to minimize pump noise etc. right move? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

02/08/2018, 07:11 PM	#2
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	Can't they both work? Then again they both can break/fail too though... Definitely do the research and see what people have to say before the water starts running. (odds) It's kind of like Roulette... You just have to pick a number. GL. Last edited by AlSimmons; 02/08/2018 at 08:17 PM.

02/08/2018, 07:33 PM	#3
Reef noob_ Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: holmdel, NJ Posts: 555	I’ve always done pvc on drains and soft tube into pvc on return. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ ________________________ New Build in progress http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2528685 90 gallon DT, 65 Gallon Fuge, Chinese LEDs, LPS and Soft coral reef

02/08/2018, 08:29 PM	#6
mako61 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Dallas Posts: 359	I did silicone tubing from return to manifold. Its works very nice, its not cheap but you dont need much. __________________ Thanks, Mako Current Tank Info: Returning Reefer - Red Sea 525XL, Mitras LX7s, Apex, check homepage for vids of tank

02/09/2018, 06:48 AM	#7
Shamous113 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 81	Use the spa flex hose, when you connect it to the rigid pvc always use primer before the glue. __________________ Current tank: 150gal mixed reef display w/120gal basement sump

02/08/2018, 08:18 PM	#5
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	Sounds like you've already picked a number...

02/09/2018, 08:09 AM	#9
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I use regular PVC for everything except a couple of ~12" pieces of vinyl (or silicone) tubing between the pump(s) and the pvc or bulkheads to minimize vibrations. IME, soft tubing has the potential to kink, reducing flow. It will also grow algae on the inside if it is exposed to any lighting, further reducing flow. Another big plus to PVC is that you minimize (or eliminate) the need for barbed fittings which greatly reduce flow. That can be overcome by using oversized fittings but that can become rather cumbersome. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

02/09/2018, 08:37 AM	#11
mitch91175 Premium Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 303	I personally use PVC for everything except feeding reactors. Figure those are the only things that will potentially change due to proper planning of the PVC plumbing. The key is that I plumbed a manifold for system expansion so no need to mess with the PVC again.

02/09/2018, 09:15 AM	#12
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Vectra is a very quiet pump. I'd be surprised if you have any vibrations problems. I've switched completely over to ultra flex PVC for both drains and returns. Avoids the inconvenience of elbows and barb fittings. Vectra is pressure-impaired, so anything you can do to reduce friction losses would be helpful. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/12/2018, 06:33 PM	#13
Bryan3536 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 50	I went with all hard plumbing, partly out of necessity - I tried to drill the sump, which the manufacturers website said was not tempered, and guess what? Removed my baffles and went right out and redid the sump, but I wasn’t about to risk it again. Pumps went inside the sump and I hard plumbed the returns with lots of unions. Noise is negligible and cannot be heard at all from viewing room. Very happy with pumps. Tank manufacturer, not so much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

02/13/2018, 04:03 AM	#15
Deefish714 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 215	Soft tubing and flex hose for drain. Keep it simple Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Deefish714

02/20/2018, 11:19 AM	#17
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Hard plumbing always looks better, but I prefer spaflex and or braided hose myself, usually less unions/elbows needed and the sweeping lines are usually quieter. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

02/20/2018, 03:33 PM	#18
Thornbreaker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 334	Can you put a gate valve on the spaflex pvc?

02/20/2018, 04:09 PM	#22
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	With a larger tank I would go with mostly hard plumbing and lots of unions. Spaflex in certain spots to make final leads to pumps etc.. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

02/21/2018, 06:35 PM	#23
Pet Detective Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 328	I always use soft, easier to maintain, clean, replace, less chance of leaks [no joints, unions etc.], versatility ie. running my return wherever I want very easily, not mention waaaaay cheaper and less noisy, never ever had an issue since nineteen and ninety two. I do also use swing check valves on my 250g even though my 2 wet drys could handle the siphon and then some if the power goes out.