Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[zachts]

Originally Posted by hkgar

You could probably get the same effect with the head mounted correctly and using a large flat head screw driver.

No doubt. But how to get that effect all the time is the question

[zachts]

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

I am about to order a Stenner SVP series pump. It has been noted several places on reefcentral that Stenner pumps are loud. The SVP series pumps are a 12v gear motor and have no cooling fan. I think it's a safe bet they are WAY quieter than the Classic series with shaded pole motors and cooling fans, and they draw less power. The SVP are way more expensive, but they are also variable speed in 1% increments via a button pad (i.e. digital). The Classic series have a mechanical speed control that cycles the pump on and off. In my opinion this will be less desirable for adjusting effluent flow rate. I'm pretty sure that every reference to noise here refers to the Classic series. The new quickhead pro pump head design for tube replacement looks pretty sweet as well. They are clearly innovating. I checked for local sources (pool supply, etc) but nobody can touch uswatersystems prices. It so happened they had the pump I want "open box new" for a sizable discount.

Not familiar with those but Stenner should be able to tell you a Decibel rating for them. Variable speed DC though generally run near silent at low RPM from my experience with other motors.

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by zachts

Not familiar with those but Stenner should be able to tell you a Decibel rating for them. Variable speed DC though generally run near silent at low RPM from my experience with other motors.

I was never able to find a noise rating, and uswater couldn't tell me a thing.

[CW from the OC]

Interesting find on those Stenner SVP's! please post your thoughts when you have it installed. US Water Systems has a sale on now, and they are 30-40% off retail.

[Dapg8gt]

The stenner pumps seem pretty affordable . Especially the dual head classic. But the question I have is are they as good as the Masterflex? Reliability wise? I've been on the eBay hunt for a Masterflex and came close to winning a few but haven't scored yet =(..

On another note tkeracer619 have you used or heard of anyone using a industrial diaphragm pump for a calcium reactor feed? I have a brand new adjustable prominent brand diaphragm pump for dosing chemicals like ammonia and fluoride in treatment plants in my garage.. It's fully adjustable and really accurate it's just noisy on the pump strokes.. But since it will be remote it may just work in my situation.. Do you think that would be feasible to use? Or should I sell it to fund a Masterflex =) retail on it is 2k+ fwiw. If this derails the thread too much I apologize..

[zachts]

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

I was never able to find a noise rating, and uswater couldn't tell me a thing.

email or call stener directly, shouldn't be hard to get the answer.

[EvMiBo]

Well, before I took my 7520-25 offline to be replaced with the new pump it started squeaking again. Since I'm intending to sell it here on RC I want to make sure the person receiving it will have it ready to go, without squeaking! Also, this is good hand-on experience for me since I plan on refurbing these pumps as time goes on.

I contacted coleparmer again (Product Applications Specialist Jose Morales) and since I already replaced the brushes and caps our last option is a service kit, which includes gear assembly (nylon gear/ shaft), gear case cover gasket, replacement fuse, and instructions.

What I find strange is that it ran flawlessly for about a month before starting to squeak again. I feel like the brushes are far too new to be the problem, right??

Before going ahead with the order I just want to pick your brains here again, thanks for all the help.

[tkeracer619]

What happens if you pull the gearset out and just let the motor run by itself?

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by CW from the OC

Interesting find on those Stenner SVP's! please post your thoughts when you have it installed. US Water Systems has a sale on now, and they are 30-40% off retail.

To be honest, I think they always have 30 to 40% off. I got lucky to find an open box special. The pump arrived this morning and will be installed tonight. Observations so far:

• The pump is huge by aquarium accessory standard. Probably about twice the size of a BRS dosing pump.
• The SVP does have a fan after all and it's louder that your average PC video card fan. You can probably cut the noise a LOT by clever location.
• The bottom of the adjustment range is pulsed, which might disappoint some (0 to 10% I think).
• The SVP does NOT come with a mounting bracket. It's a separate item to order. Without the bracket there is really no good way to solid mount the pump.WITH the bracket there really isn't a good way to rubber mount the pump without some fabrication. It's only 2 screws.

So far I do not regret my purchase despite these disappointments. If you want a new pump I don't know of a better option.

[mntnbighker]

Correction, the Stenner SVP is pulsed below 30% volume. Which in my case is about 2 drops per second. I may be forced to drop into the pulsed range. Or keep the Ph slightly higher.

[tkeracer619]

I wouldn't worry about the pulsing. It shouldn't effect your setup at all. I am definitely interested in your results!

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

If you want a new pump I don't know of a better option.

I've been working on something in my super secret laboratory. In due time my friends but for now off the shelf units will have to do.

[mntnbighker]

An observation I made today is that despite the apparent accuracy of the Aq Plants electronic C02 regulator, it has limitations. If the ambient temp raises the Co2 tank pressure, even though the second stage of the regulator may remain fixed, my bubble rate went nuts. The bubble rate is also highly dependent on reactor pressure (or vacuum). So despite having a dosing pump keeping my effluent feed rate constant, the reactor Ph is not as stable as you might hope. My Apex and Ph probe keep it in range, but the dream of a stable Co2 flow and reactor Ph level remain out of reach. The Aquarium Plants setup is pretty nice, but I find the actual Co2 regulator they sell a bit cheap. The electronic part does add a level of control, but since the bubble size cannot be maintained at a stable condition you still have an uncontrolled variable. I think actually a better quality regulator would do you more good than the electronic valve. Possibly the ultimate is the Aq Plants electronic valve with a different, and better quality regulator.

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

An observation I made today is that despite the apparent accuracy of the Aq Plants electronic C02 regulator, it has limitations. If the ambient temp raises the Co2 tank pressure, even though the second stage of the regulator may remain fixed, my bubble rate went nuts. The bubble rate is also highly dependent on reactor pressure (or vacuum). So despite having a dosing pump keeping my effluent feed rate constant, the reactor Ph is not as stable as you might hope. My Apex and Ph probe keep it in range, but the dream of a stable Co2 flow and reactor Ph level remain out of reach. The Aquarium Plants setup is pretty nice, but I find the actual Co2 regulator they sell a bit cheap. The electronic part does add a level of control, but since the bubble size cannot be maintained at a stable condition you still have an uncontrolled variable. I think actually a better quality regulator would do you more good than the electronic valve. Possibly the ultimate is the Aq Plants electronic valve with a different, and better quality regulator.

Bubble rate should have nothing to do with bottle pressure. I think you have a defective regulator. All single stage regulators will be effected by bottle pressures but after a few days with the regulator on they tend to level out but will need adjustment from time to time.

Again, I think you have a defective regulator because the bubble rate is absolutely not tied to pressure.

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Bubble rate should have nothing to do with bottle pressure. I think you have a defective regulator. All single stage regulators will be effected by bottle pressures but after a few days with the regulator on they tend to level out but will need adjustment from time to time.

Again, I think you have a defective regulator because the bubble rate is absolutely not tied to pressure.

Thanks, I will contact Aq Plants then. :-(

[mntnbighker]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Bubble rate should have nothing to do with bottle pressure. I think you have a defective regulator. All single stage regulators will be effected by bottle pressures but after a few days with the regulator on they tend to level out but will need adjustment from time to time.

Again, I think you have a defective regulator because the bubble rate is absolutely not tied to pressure.

It seems that bubble rate is as you say, NOT tied to bottle pressure. But what has a major influence on bubble size is chamber pressure. And if you allow even just a tiny amount of vacuum to develop because of the dosing pump, the bubble size is greatly affected. So it becomes a balancing act between reactor chamber pressure and regulator pressure.

[Theokie]

Has anyone ran a Masterflex 77410, series pump? its a brushless model that just doesn't have the digital control of the L/S series, actually it is an I/P series and is much larger then the L/S.

I'm asking this as I am totally hooked on my 7523-60 for my calcium reactor and was looking for something that would be similarly silent, but would give me a greater flow in order to power a Lanthanum Chloride reactor.

[tkeracer619]

I haven't used one like that but I see no reason to believe it is any different other than a 1/3hp vs 1/10hp.

You might want to give CP a call but the drive looks awesome. Keep in mind you can stack multiple heads on these pumps and while not ideal you can easily add flow by doing so.

Glad you like the 7523-60. Great pumps!

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by mntnbighker

But what has a major influence on bubble size is chamber pressure. And if you allow even just a tiny amount of vacuum to develop because of the dosing pump, the bubble size is greatly affected. So it becomes a balancing act between reactor chamber pressure and regulator pressure.

Calcium reactors with this config will always have one side open to atmospheric pressure. They don't really generate excessive pressure differences unless the feed and effluent lines are improperly sized for the length of run and flow rate. If you get a couple lbs or inches vacuum in the chamber there is likely a problem somewhere (ex: mistakenly using a John Guest check valve elbow instead of a normal elbow (was fun to diagnose!)). I haven't investigated the vacuum aspect as when I first started promoting this system I was recommending a push not pull configuration. I will however test your theory of the vacuum effecting it but I have my doubts that it effects it much. Physics says it effects it but by how much? Definitely worth checking out.

I am pretty sure I discuss in the very first post on this thread the variances with single stage regulators however if this is setup properly you should have no reason to actively control the regulator with a controller and doing so can effect the overall stability of the system. There is nothing wrong with letting the controller do the ph control. The reactor will still be more stable than without the peristaltic but will not be as stable as one setup as this thread intended. I've been running this setup for years and have set it up on many peoples tanks as well as converted many people here on rc. I wanted to make sure I wasn't just throwing this out there given the costs associated with the setup.

Part of the reason I made this thread was to divert some of my 1on1 assistance to the community so that everyone could become more informed. This is mostly what happened. More and more people are switching to this setup and afaik nobody who has gone through with it and taken the time to troubleshoot have had issues. Many have gone from complete non working systems to fully stable systems in less than a handful of adjustments.

I probably get double the PMs now and keep them coming! I don't mind but please be patient and if I don't respond immediately it isn't personal, I am likely just trying to keep your pm marked as unread so that when I do have the time to help I will easily be able to find it (I get a lot of PMs). Also, if you have slipped through the cracks and you think I forgot about you, send me another PM! You cannot aggravate me by trying to remind me I am supposed to be helping you!!

[Uncle Luke]

Just bought this pump off eBay. Now the question is, what exact tubing and from where should I buy it from? It does not take the LS17. Should I run it with LS15 tubing or return it and buy a pump head that accepts LS17 tubing. Running a geo reactor with AP reg.

http://

[tkeracer619]

Anything with a 3/32" wall thickness will work in your pump head. The trick is finding one that will last and that is affordable.

Pharmed BPT, A-60-F*, and E-LFL are the long lasting Tygon tubing I would recommend for our application. They are rated for 800-1000 hrs at 600rpm and will not leach anything.

AFAIK E-LFL is the only extended life tubing from Tygon that comes with a 3/32 wall thickness and is good for our tanks. If someone knows another source please chime in.

The reason I usually recommend the Pharmed BPT first...

Independent tests show it’s safe for use in sensitive cell culture applications. Very good general chemical resistance and excellent acid, alkali and oxidation resistance.

*I do not think using A-60-G is a good idea. It has a slight odor, is industrial grade, and is not food grade. It meets California prop 65 but I cannot confirm if it is safe to use on fish tanks.

[tkeracer619]

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Anything with a 3/32" wall thickness will work in your pump head. The trick is finding one that will last and that is affordable.

Pharmed BPT, A-60-F*, and E-LFL are the long lasting Tygon tubing I would recommend for our application. They are rated for 800-1000 hrs at 600rpm and will not leach anything.

AFAIK E-LFL is the only extended life tubing from Tygon that comes with a 3/32 wall thickness and is good for our tanks. If someone knows another source please chime in.

The reason I usually recommend the Pharmed BPT first...


*I do not think using A-60-G is a good idea. It has a slight odor, is industrial grade, and is not food grade. It meets California prop 65 but I cannot confirm if it is safe to use on fish tanks.

The most these tubing seem to be rated for is 1000+ hours. Of course who knows how much the + is. At 24/7 1000 is about 41 days.

How often do you change your tubing? I am using Pharmed BPT NSF-51, L 17.

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by hkgar

At 24/7 1000 is about 41 days.

How often do you change your tubing? I am using Pharmed BPT NSF-51, L 17.

The chart shows testing done at 600rpm. Most of us are at about 50rpm +-20. If all things are equal and wear is per revolution that would be something like 492 days at 50rpm. I change mine every 3 or so months and have never had a tube rupture.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

The chart shows testing done at 600rpm. Most of us are at about 50rpm +-20. If all things are equal and wear is per revolution that would be something like 492 days at 50rpm. I change mine every 3 or so months and have never had a tube rupture.

Masterflex branded tubing is tested at 600 rpm and puts the norprene at 4000+ hours, that would be over 5 months continuous operation at those speeds........

they state over 5000 hours for 50 rpm and I think that is where they stopped running the test.

http://www.masterflex.com/TechLibraryArticle/773

[tkeracer619]

Awesome link! Thanks for posting. Premium tubing at a premium price