Bleaching old rock strictly to kill possible spores?

musicsmaker · 03/07/2019, 10:55 PM

I have some old, dry rock that I purchased used. It looks really clean, but I'm worried about it possibly having dormant, pest algae or things of the like.

Would there be any benefit to bleaching it for a day in 20/80 bleach/water?

tkeracer619 · 03/08/2019, 12:58 AM

Won't hurt, I always do it. 1/2 cup regular bleach per 5 gallons is sufficient. Just make sure it is regular bleach.

ReefWreak · 03/08/2019, 09:56 AM

I would sooner recommend doing an acid bath and then a solid rinsing out.

Check out google Live Rock Cooking (which does NOT involve heat, only acid).

The reason I recommend this vs. simple bleaching is that it will burn off the outermost layer of the rock, which will remove phosphates, copper, spores, algae, etc. Then you just rinse rinse rinse with water and neutralize the acid with baking soda (same as you would use for alkalinity supplementation anyway).

I did this in home depot tubs for dry rock that I bought, and it was a very simple process. As the tank was established, the only green algae that grew was on the sand, and coraline populated the rock very quickly.

musicsmaker · 03/09/2019, 01:52 PM

tkeracer619, that's quite a low concentration compared to the 20% I've seen repeated so often. Are you sure that would be enough for a 24 hour soak? When you do it, do you use tap water, or ro?

ReefWreak, this rock is remarkably clean looking. My only concern is dormant algal spores, or any other nondesirable dormant life. After the bleach and subsequent rinsing, it will get dried back out, then used in a brand new system. Im starting this one out sterile.

on the spot · 03/09/2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicsmaker

ReefWreak, this rock is remarkably clean looking...

I second the acid wash. Looks and is are miles apart.

Otherwise, with next to no visible organics, a little bleach will go a long way. More won't hurt anything though.

GL

musicsmaker · 03/09/2019, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the spot

I second the acid wash. Looks and is are miles apart.

Otherwise, with next to no visible organics, a little bleach will go a long way. More won't hurt anything though.

GL

Most of the rock looks completely void of any organic matter at all, but some of it is stained by either green surface-algae, or from having been under sand. It's all currently in an old Rubbermaid Trashcan with RO water and bleach. I'll let it soak for at least 48 hours, then rinse and dry it.

Once it's thoroughly dry, my plan is to dry-scape it in the new tank, using JB's "water-weld" putty to stabilize it in key spots, so there won't be any shifting down the road. I'll let that cure, then fill the tank with saltwater and use ammonium chloride to cycle it. Once the nitrogen cycle is finished, the first inhabitants will be clownish and a nem. If it takes another 6 weeks for phosphates to drop low enough for sticks and stonies, then so be it.

Hopefully tkeracer was right about the dosage.

laverda · 03/10/2019, 01:53 AM

I think you will have trouble adding an anemone so soon.
Anemones do much better in an established tank, not one that is freshly cycled. I sell anemones and will not sell one to a new tank in most cases, especially one started from dry rock.

musicsmaker · 03/10/2019, 10:27 AM

With a properly cycled tank, and and an experienced reefer taking care of things, what exactly is it that happens to a tank over time that makes it more suitable for a nem?

bigfoot610 · 03/11/2019, 01:40 AM

When you start a tank your starting every aspect of your tanks ecology from scratch you have no bacteria no pod life no established stratified sandbed your tank will hit the nuisance algae phase anemones need water qualities that don’t fluctuate at all water quality will make a bubble tip split if it changes too much or too fast.

musicsmaker · 03/11/2019, 06:05 PM

bigfoot610, true there will be no bacteria at first, but after I cycle it with ammonium chloride there will plenty. I won't have a sandbed at all. This tank is going to be bare bottom with a piece of black starboard on bottom. I'm going to have minimal rockwork in the display, and run a 8x8x4 marine pure block in the sump. I'll seed the fuge with pods and chaeto the moment algae starts to show up, and maybe add some snails and hemits around that time, depending on what's happening with my ammonia, 'trates 'trites, phosphates, etc.

Once the tank can clear a dose of ammonia in under 24 hours, it is ready for fish. Is it not? I'm thinking this should take 6 weeks or more. The pod life should be established and reproducing in the fuge pretty well by then, also.

musicsmaker · 03/11/2019, 06:10 PM

As a side note: the rock looks super clean and white right now. I can now see some places that had corals encrusted over them, and tell that underneath it, the rock is more porous. I might try to chip some of that off. It definitely looks cleaner now than when I put it in there. Some of it is a little orange looking?

sfsuphysics · 03/11/2019, 07:05 PM

White I'm usually an all in guy with muriatic acid baths, I have noticed that aiptasia isn't actually killed with a soak, I mean it looks upset and shriveled up but knowing the regenerative qualities of aiptasia I wouldn't leave it as actually dead.

Bleach on the other hand...

musicsmaker · 03/11/2019, 09:44 PM

sfsuphysics, there is no chance of any aiptasia being on this rock. It can't survive being totally dried out for weeks on end. IDK about acid, but bleach will kill everything for sure. I've opted to let it go one more night. Can't hurt.

musicsmaker · 03/13/2019, 08:20 PM

I just finished taking the rock out of the bleach water, and setting it out so it can dry. I've read that people use dechlorinator when rinsing bleached rock.

Does anyone have any input on that? What EXACTLY is in dechlorinator?

Vinny Kreyling · 03/14/2019, 10:04 AM

Bleach works because it has chlorine in it which oxides nasties.
Dechlorinator neutralizes the bleach.

Millwright · 03/20/2019, 05:33 PM

After a 2 year break do too a house fire I just started a 50 cube. I acid washed all my new to me rock with 5 gallons acic in a 20 gallon brute for 1 hour. Rinsed thoroughly. 2nd day 4 gallons bleach for 24 hours. Rinsed throughly and let dry 5 days. After the 5 days I gave it a soak with two three gallons 20% clear activator in the brute can for 2 hours. Drained and air dried for 24 hours. Rinsed it in rodi water and put in the main display.
Sixweeks later I just compleated my cycle. And added my first two fish.
Phosphates not detected. All parameters normal. The only odd thing I am observing is even with the lights on for the past six weeks I have no algae and or dino.

NanoReefWanabe · 03/21/2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefWreak

I would sooner recommend doing an acid bath and then a solid rinsing out.

Check out google Live Rock Cooking (which does NOT involve heat, only acid).

The reason I recommend this vs. simple bleaching is that it will burn off the outermost layer of the rock, which will remove phosphates, copper, spores, algae, etc. Then you just rinse rinse rinse with water and neutralize the acid with baking soda (same as you would use for alkalinity supplementation anyway).

I did this in home depot tubs for dry rock that I bought, and it was a very simple process. As the tank was established, the only green algae that grew was on the sand, and coraline populated the rock very quickly.

Acid wash and cooking are not the same thing...acid wash is exactly as you describe...cooking is the term given when the rocks are placed in a closed container with saltwater, heat and circulation and left to "cook" for about 2-3 months... doing this will allow the natural bacteria to completely remove any spores and residual algae dead snails clams etc... leaving you with perfectly clean white and fully cycled rocks.

ReefWreak · 03/21/2019, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NanoReefWanabe

Acid wash and cooking are not the same thing...acid wash is exactly as you describe...cooking is the term given when the rocks are placed in a closed container with saltwater, heat and circulation and left to "cook" for about 2-3 months... doing this will allow the natural bacteria to completely remove any spores and residual algae dead snails clams etc... leaving you with perfectly clean white and fully cycled rocks.

Good point, I forgot about that.

Remember that if there is excessive phosphate, or sponges or aiptasia, those will not be helped by "cooking". It's been a while since I've thought about cooking LR. I can't recommend acid washing enough though.

ChristopherPere · 03/23/2019, 08:37 PM

Any situation where you don't want to risk bleach, you can use a pressure washer.

musicsmaker · 03/23/2019, 09:45 PM

Many thanks for the input, everyone.

I let the rock get thoroughly dried out, then I soaked it in RO water for a few days with a pump running intermittently. I just took it out today, and have a fan blowing on it to help it dry out faster.

I can't wait to get this thing up and running. I'll start a build thread and link this one to it for anyone interested.

musicsmaker · 03/23/2019, 09:50 PM

In regards to acid soaking:

I opted not to with this rock, based on these factors:

1) This rock is going into a fresh new system that can cycle however long it needs to, and I don't want to dissolve 20% of it after I've already had it aquascaped just how I want it.

2) The rock was really clean to start with. The only sign of former life on it was a ton of tube worm/featherduster/vermited snail skeletons, and the skeletal remains of a few encrusting stony corals. There was practically nothing there to dissolve, other than the rock itself.

NanoReefWanabe · 03/24/2019, 06:40 AM

Sitting it in ro will do virtually nothing... to properly dry and kill stuff on it you should dry it in the sun...

I aqua scaped my rock after it was bleached and acid washed and left to dry. .

Since you opted not to acid wash it, I would cover the sides of your tank with black towels or something to make sure no light gets in while cycling... and don't run any of your lighting either... then select you will be cooking and cycling in your tank and after a couple months it will be perfect...

03/07/2019, 10:55 PM	#1
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	Bleaching old rock strictly to kill possible spores? I have some old, dry rock that I purchased used. It looks really clean, but I'm worried about it possibly having dormant, pest algae or things of the like. Would there be any benefit to bleaching it for a day in 20/80 bleach/water? __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/08/2019, 12:58 AM	#2
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Won't hurt, I always do it. 1/2 cup regular bleach per 5 gallons is sufficient. Just make sure it is regular bleach. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

03/09/2019, 01:52 PM	#4
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	tkeracer619, that's quite a low concentration compared to the 20% I've seen repeated so often. Are you sure that would be enough for a 24 hour soak? When you do it, do you use tap water, or ro? ReefWreak, this rock is remarkably clean looking. My only concern is dormant algal spores, or any other nondesirable dormant life. After the bleach and subsequent rinsing, it will get dried back out, then used in a brand new system. Im starting this one out sterile. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/10/2019, 01:53 AM	#7
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	I think you will have trouble adding an anemone so soon. Anemones do much better in an established tank, not one that is freshly cycled. I sell anemones and will not sell one to a new tank in most cases, especially one started from dry rock. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

03/10/2019, 10:27 AM	#8
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	With a properly cycled tank, and and an experienced reefer taking care of things, what exactly is it that happens to a tank over time that makes it more suitable for a nem? __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/08/2019, 09:56 AM	#3
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	I would sooner recommend doing an acid bath and then a solid rinsing out. Check out google Live Rock Cooking (which does NOT involve heat, only acid). The reason I recommend this vs. simple bleaching is that it will burn off the outermost layer of the rock, which will remove phosphates, copper, spores, algae, etc. Then you just rinse rinse rinse with water and neutralize the acid with baking soda (same as you would use for alkalinity supplementation anyway). I did this in home depot tubs for dry rock that I bought, and it was a very simple process. As the tank was established, the only green algae that grew was on the sand, and coraline populated the rock very quickly.

03/11/2019, 01:40 AM	#9
bigfoot610 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: coloradosprings , CO Posts: 449	When you start a tank your starting every aspect of your tanks ecology from scratch you have no bacteria no pod life no established stratified sandbed your tank will hit the nuisance algae phase anemones need water qualities that don’t fluctuate at all water quality will make a bubble tip split if it changes too much or too fast. __________________ Luke Yarrr internet space ships is serious bussiness Br1cksquad best squad Current Tank Info: i had 9 tanks but now i am startin up a 29 :) \o/ im back in the hobby

03/11/2019, 06:05 PM	#10
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	bigfoot610, true there will be no bacteria at first, but after I cycle it with ammonium chloride there will plenty. I won't have a sandbed at all. This tank is going to be bare bottom with a piece of black starboard on bottom. I'm going to have minimal rockwork in the display, and run a 8x8x4 marine pure block in the sump. I'll seed the fuge with pods and chaeto the moment algae starts to show up, and maybe add some snails and hemits around that time, depending on what's happening with my ammonia, 'trates 'trites, phosphates, etc. Once the tank can clear a dose of ammonia in under 24 hours, it is ready for fish. Is it not? I'm thinking this should take 6 weeks or more. The pod life should be established and reproducing in the fuge pretty well by then, also. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/11/2019, 06:10 PM	#11
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	As a side note: the rock looks super clean and white right now. I can now see some places that had corals encrusted over them, and tell that underneath it, the rock is more porous. I might try to chip some of that off. It definitely looks cleaner now than when I put it in there. Some of it is a little orange looking? __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/11/2019, 07:05 PM	#12
sfsuphysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9,103	White I'm usually an all in guy with muriatic acid baths, I have noticed that aiptasia isn't actually killed with a soak, I mean it looks upset and shriveled up but knowing the regenerative qualities of aiptasia I wouldn't leave it as actually dead. Bleach on the other hand... __________________ Mike

03/11/2019, 09:44 PM	#13
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	sfsuphysics, there is no chance of any aiptasia being on this rock. It can't survive being totally dried out for weeks on end. IDK about acid, but bleach will kill everything for sure. I've opted to let it go one more night. Can't hurt. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/13/2019, 08:20 PM	#14
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	I just finished taking the rock out of the bleach water, and setting it out so it can dry. I've read that people use dechlorinator when rinsing bleached rock. Does anyone have any input on that? What EXACTLY is in dechlorinator? __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/14/2019, 10:04 AM	#15
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Bleach works because it has chlorine in it which oxides nasties. Dechlorinator neutralizes the bleach. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

03/20/2019, 05:33 PM	#16
Millwright Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Brunswick, Ohio Posts: 27	After a 2 year break do too a house fire I just started a 50 cube. I acid washed all my new to me rock with 5 gallons acic in a 20 gallon brute for 1 hour. Rinsed thoroughly. 2nd day 4 gallons bleach for 24 hours. Rinsed throughly and let dry 5 days. After the 5 days I gave it a soak with two three gallons 20% clear activator in the brute can for 2 hours. Drained and air dried for 24 hours. Rinsed it in rodi water and put in the main display. Sixweeks later I just compleated my cycle. And added my first two fish. Phosphates not detected. All parameters normal. The only odd thing I am observing is even with the lights on for the past six weeks I have no algae and or dino. __________________ 3rd times the charm. Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL

03/23/2019, 08:37 PM	#19
ChristopherPere Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 5	Any situation where you don't want to risk bleach, you can use a pressure washer.

03/23/2019, 09:45 PM	#20
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	Many thanks for the input, everyone. I let the rock get thoroughly dried out, then I soaked it in RO water for a few days with a pump running intermittently. I just took it out today, and have a fan blowing on it to help it dry out faster. I can't wait to get this thing up and running. I'll start a build thread and link this one to it for anyone interested. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/23/2019, 09:50 PM	#21
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	In regards to acid soaking: I opted not to with this rock, based on these factors: 1) This rock is going into a fresh new system that can cycle however long it needs to, and I don't want to dissolve 20% of it after I've already had it aquascaped just how I want it. 2) The rock was really clean to start with. The only sign of former life on it was a ton of tube worm/featherduster/vermited snail skeletons, and the skeletal remains of a few encrusting stony corals. There was practically nothing there to dissolve, other than the rock itself. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

03/24/2019, 06:40 AM	#22
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	Sitting it in ro will do virtually nothing... to properly dry and kill stuff on it you should dry it in the sun... I aqua scaped my rock after it was bleached and acid washed and left to dry. . Since you opted not to acid wash it, I would cover the sides of your tank with black towels or something to make sure no light gets in while cycling... and don't run any of your lighting either... then select you will be cooking and cycling in your tank and after a couple months it will be perfect...