I'm returning to Reefing. Would you care to join me?

[lebowski]

Hello all,

My goodness, it's been so long since I have posted on this site. More than a dozen years ago I left my 10 gal seahorse tank and 29 gal reef.

Anyhoo, I am considering setting up another tank. This time, I am 32. I will be living on my own, I have a buttload of cash. You know... as opposed to when I was 16, living in my room and selling scrap metal for money to purchase corals. Times have changed.


1. Since I have been in the hobby, there has been change. Obviously. The biggest change is in the lighting. I am used to probe/pulse start ballasts with a 250w 14k-20k Halide bulb. Oh the days. Shimmer effects, DIY canopies and an electric bill.

Is anyone still running halides? I see a growth in the LED. Obviously there are benefits environmentally and perhaps even in coral growth, but please enlighten me or try to deter me from my old ways... otherwise, perhaps LED ISN'T necessarily the way to go. Like I said, money isn't an issue here. However, I am still very active in reducing costs and energy consumption.

2. Automation. Is anyone running any really effective gear (software) for maintaining temp, salinity, alk, ca, mg, top offs, water pumps? I would like to set up the most automated system imaginable. I like tech. I would like to feel safer knowing I can leave my tank alone for a few days if necessary.

I am basically interested in this topic for now. I have read countless opinions and can also do the math and plug in some scientific variables with PAR and all that, but I am looking for actual experience and some anecdotal evidence and backup for claims.

Thanks for any interest. Please feel free to post pictures and detailed information.

[humphreyhh]

I’m still a young-newbie in reefing hobby (only 4 years with one tank). But I highly recommend LED. The coloration of corals and anemones is so good under the proper LED lights. And they last super long with lower electricity cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jakerupe]

The Dude abides!

I am in the same boat as you. Took my tanks down over 10 years ago and set one back up in March. You are right things have changed.

I still have the halides set up and powering through. So far I don't regret that in fact it is one less thing that I can play with....that is good!

8 months after setting up a lot of independent automation (smart sensor, smart power strips etc.) I am leaning more towards the Apex and Hydros as options.

I did buy a Seneye and love what it monitors as well as the PAR sensor but its a monitor not a controller. So a monitor that can respond is very appealing to me too but others can expand on that for you. Also this will be a great back up tool.

Only advice I would give you is to jump in with one of the controllers. I probably will end up spending a few hundred more and ended up just delaying that.

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jakerupe

The Dude abides!

I am in the same boat as you. Took my tanks down over 10 years ago and set one back up in March. You are right things have changed.

I still have the halides set up and powering through. So far I don't regret that in fact it is one less thing that I can play with....that is good!

8 months after setting up a lot of independent automation (smart sensor, smart power strips etc.) I am leaning more towards the Apex and Hydros as options.

I did buy a Seneye and love what it monitors as well as the PAR sensor but its a monitor not a controller. So a monitor that can respond is very appealing to me too but others can expand on that for you. Also this will be a great back up tool.

Only advice I would give you is to jump in with one of the controllers. I probably will end up spending a few hundred more and ended up just delaying that.

Nice! Hey what kind of halides are you running?

I recall purchasing something called XM 20k, very good. At the time, the Iwasaki 6500k were around for growth or the Radeon 20k.

humphreyhh- Thanks for the input! I am getting used to the LED's. I will definitely be trying LED's... Any particular brand's you have in mind? Do you have any photos you would like to share?

[Jvak]

I have been out of the hobby for about 8 years myself and have the urge to dive back in! Subscribed!

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jvak

I have been out of the hobby for about 8 years myself and have the urge to dive back in! Subscribed!

This is great! I remember a very active community so long ago. Not sure how the boards are these days, but it's great to see others are still here.


In this case, Jvak, I will be posting updates throughout the year on this thread. Please feel free to join in with me if you decide to jump in again.

[Imaexpat2]

Im kind of a old school reefer too, I just didnt really take a break like you. Yes lots has changed...to the point its kinda hard to not imagine their being some sort of automated addition to run your tank these days.

Sadly I miss the days of Halides! But I think LED's have finally hit a point where they are infinitely controllable and truly provide the spectrum of light required for good coral growth and color. Coupled with the efficient use of energy and the lack of heat, I suspect that Halides will be going the way of the Dinosaur and PC's/VHO's for lighting. Maybe not as fast as PC's/VHO's did when T5HO's came out. LED's seem to be the future in no uncertian terms, the big question is which one. As a former Halide user(SPS Whore)...I have trended towards Kessil lights for several reasons one of which is that light shimmer I get from Halides. A little more pricey than other options but I am a simple kinda guy and like simple kinda things that WORK! Its been about 3 years since I ran a halide...

Being an old school reefer I too am looking towards doing a little automation in my future tanks. Im not sure I am ready for a 2500 dollar Apex with all the whistles and bells but I am definitely taking a hard look at some gear under the tank to make things a little more time/maintenance efficient.

I think I am gonna test the waters on this using a Seneye Controller. Its not as cool as an Apex but it does a whole lot for just a couple hundred fun dollars. Right now I just have Nano's, but I am working up to assembling a 90 gallon at which point I probably will spring for the Apex with all the whistles and bells. Might even quit dripping Kalkwasser and get a Calcium Reactor too!

At any rate, welcome back to the Dark Side!!!

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Imaexpat2

Im kind of a old school reefer too, I just didnt really take a break like you. Yes lots has changed...to the point its kinda hard to not imagine their being some sort of automated addition to run your tank these days.

Sadly I miss the days of Halides! But I think LED's have finally hit a point where they are infinitely controllable and truly provide the spectrum of light required for good coral growth and color. Coupled with the efficient use of energy and the lack of heat, I suspect that Halides will be going the way of the Dinosaur and PC's/VHO's for lighting. Maybe not as fast as PC's/VHO's did when T5HO's came out. LED's seem to be the future in no uncertian terms, the big question is which one. As a former Halide user(SPS Whore)...I have trended towards Kessil lights for several reasons one of which is that light shimmer I get from Halides. A little more pricey than other options but I am a simple kinda guy and like simple kinda things that WORK! Its been about 3 years since I ran a halide...

Being an old school reefer I too am looking towards doing a little automation in my future tanks. Im not sure I am ready for a 2500 dollar Apex with all the whistles and bells but I am definitely taking a hard look at some gear under the tank to make things a little more time/maintenance efficient.

I think I am gonna test the waters on this using a Seneye Controller. Its not as cool as an Apex but it does a whole lot for just a couple hundred fun dollars. Right now I just have Nano's, but I am working up to assembling a 90 gallon at which point I probably will spring for the Apex with all the whistles and bells. Might even quit dripping Kalkwasser and get a Calcium Reactor too!

At any rate, welcome back to the Dark Side!!!

Thank you so much for the input! And yes, glad to be back. Great to know I will allot a portion of my income to this fascination of mine.

Question- I will be doing heavy clams, SPS. I was dripping Kalkwasser but never got into SPS. The PH remained pretty decent, never tested ALK, but the coralline growth was majestic. I was looking into a reactor. Any more thoughts on methods for calcium/alk supplementation?


I am entirely old school, but willing to adapt with some old analog favs of mine still implemented. I'll try different combinations and see what works (as all of this is that whole program anyways.).

I am studying the anatomy of the reef tank further. I was never a heavy tester. I would do the ritual pH, salinity, Nitrated, etc. I am realizing that the extensive amount of testers available lead me into something so simple and almost ridiculous sounding that will make me feel much more confident about the future.

Essential elements. Has anyone actually taken the time to study an organism thoroughly such as SPS? This is something I think I will invest my money and time into as well. Actually submitting lab testing and procedures for some of these hypotheses I have. I would like to know how much Magnesium, or Strontium, or Molybdenum is absorbed from the water column from one simple organism such as an acropora.

Kind of went a little off trail there, but just some thoughts as I'm digesting this reef world again. I remember how exciting it was.... COLORS.

[reefteaser]

If your budget isn’t tight I’d recommend looking at Kessil or Radion for LED lights. There are plenty of great choices out there, but when it came time for an upgrade it came down to these two for me. I went with Kessil 360X’s, but it was a toss up.
I haven’t gone the controller route, but I did get the Hydros wave engine when it came out. I was already using Reef Octopus pumps and Maxspect gyres, so they integrated perfectly. The ability to run them all off of one power supply and one app has been terrific, and I’ve customized a daily function of them all coordinated with an automatic feeder, much like a controller.

[Jakerupe]

Originally Posted by lebowski

Nice! Hey what kind of halides are you running?

I recall purchasing something called XM 20k, very good. At the time, the Iwasaki 6500k were around for growth or the Radeon 20k.

humphreyhh- Thanks for the input! I am getting used to the LED's. I will definitely be trying LED's... Any particular brand's you have in mind? Do you have any photos you would like to share?

Hamilton 16k ones are in right now with the 4 actinic T5s seems to do the trick. Excited to move to LEDs but originally just figured it would be easier/cheaper to use everything I has since "I had everything I needed"

8 months and about $2000 later LEDs are just a matter of time.

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jakerupe

Hamilton 16k ones are in right now with the 4 actinic T5s seems to do the trick. Excited to move to LEDs but originally just figured it would be easier/cheaper to use everything I has since "I had everything I needed"

8 months and about $2000 later LEDs are just a matter of time.

So are you running halides and the VHO? Let me know how the transition to LED's work.

You know, I am still crazy about the PC's and Halides. Ridiculous, one could argue, with the heat and energy consumption and room it takes up. This is just engrained in me from the hobby so long ago.

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by reefteaser

If your budget isn’t tight I’d recommend looking at Kessil or Radion for LED lights. There are plenty of great choices out there, but when it came time for an upgrade it came down to these two for me. I went with Kessil 360X’s, but it was a toss up.
I haven’t gone the controller route, but I did get the Hydros wave engine when it came out. I was already using Reef Octopus pumps and Maxspect gyres, so they integrated perfectly. The ability to run them all off of one power supply and one app has been terrific, and I’ve customized a daily function of them all coordinated with an automatic feeder, much like a controller.

I have money to spend. Is that the same Radion (or Radeon?) that made the 20k halides? Do you remember this brand?

Also, have you tried this "Apex" controller?

[Imaexpat2]

Originally Posted by lebowski

Thank you so much for the input! And yes, glad to be back. Great to know I will allot a portion of my income to this fascination of mine.

Question- I will be doing heavy clams, SPS. I was dripping Kalkwasser but never got into SPS. The PH remained pretty decent, never tested ALK, but the coralline growth was majestic. I was looking into a reactor. Any more thoughts on methods for calcium/alk supplementation?


I am entirely old school, but willing to adapt with some old analog favs of mine still implemented. I'll try different combinations and see what works (as all of this is that whole program anyways.).

I am studying the anatomy of the reef tank further. I was never a heavy tester. I would do the ritual pH, salinity, Nitrated, etc. I am realizing that the extensive amount of testers available lead me into something so simple and almost ridiculous sounding that will make me feel much more confident about the future.

Essential elements. Has anyone actually taken the time to study an organism thoroughly such as SPS? This is something I think I will invest my money and time into as well. Actually submitting lab testing and procedures for some of these hypotheses I have. I would like to know how much Magnesium, or Strontium, or Molybdenum is absorbed from the water column from one simple organism such as an acropora.

Kind of went a little off trail there, but just some thoughts as I'm digesting this reef world again. I remember how exciting it was.... COLORS.

Im still old school and dripping Kalk+2 from a Retile Dripper like an IV drip. It has worked great even when I had a couple of larger clams (5-8 inches). My SPS did great using this technique and my clams were okay and the coraline algae was going bonkers in the tank. Alk, Calcium, Magnisium, Stronium level were good. I am considering getting a Calcium Reactor when I set up a 90 gallon future project as it will be wall to wall sticks and several clams. I like that idea due to the fact that you are actually disolving crushed coral and releasing all of those minierals in the ratios that they were used to build a reef in the first place. I wouldnt use that technique though unless you are monitoring your Ph incase there is a malfunction. This is something where a Apex Controller or even a Seneye control are worth their weight in gold. But until then I am dripping Kalk +2 on my smaller tanks and it works out just fine. ALL my make up water is Kalk +2 at night so my Ph levels stay nice and consistent and most of the more important parameters are keep in check.

I have done a few studies with Garf in the past that they have run and found it very interesting and even picked up some nice tips on coral propagation and coral pruning. It was fun and I wished I was closer so I could do that again. I learned so much from those guys even though they are pretty old school in so many ways. Several times I have donated dozens of frags that were to be placed on old coral reefs that had been damaged or died to restore them. If your able to do that sort of thing thing by all means do so, it will only teach a lot more about the hobby and the critters in it. Thats whats so awesome about this hobby as there are so many directions you can take it and enjoy it.

Folks thinking out side the box is the reason this hobby as progressed as far as it has since I got into it 20 years ago. Im mean think about the technology changes that have occurred in this hobby since 2000 to present. Back in the day corals came in two different colors ho-hum green and Doo-Doo Brown. Most corals were disposable and short term additions. We were just moving away from 6500k Iwasaki's and Actinic NO bulbs and still using under ground filters in many cases. SPS corals truly were for experts only back then! Today....no one would even think about a set up like that and expect much in the way of success!

Since your a Former Halide guy here is why I went with Kessil lights over other options. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBPlZAp1czk) Its not the cheapest option and there are more expensive options to be sure. I did find it to be comprable to a halide from a results stand point in many ways. I also liked its simplicity of operation and design too. I have also found that using multiple LED fixtures over the minimum required gave me better light dispersion and coverage and to a large extent minimizes shading the undersides of corals and creating darker areas of the tank that are subtule to detect unless you got a PAR meter. Spacing multiple LED's over a tank evenly is not always your best course of action, refer to BRS TV to see what I mean on some of their light videos. I think most manufactures are a little generous on what their lights can actually cover with even PAR and not cause hot spots in the tank and on just how deep their lights can generate those kinds of PAR numbers needed for corals.

Anyways...enough rambling!

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Imaexpat2

Im still old school and dripping Kalk+2 from a Retile Dripper like an IV drip. It has worked great even when I had a couple of larger clams (5-8 inches). My SPS did great using this technique and my clams were okay and the coraline algae was going bonkers in the tank. Alk, Calcium, Magnisium, Stronium level were good. I am considering getting a Calcium Reactor when I set up a 90 gallon future project as it will be wall to wall sticks and several clams. I like that idea due to the fact that you are actually disolving crushed coral and releasing all of those minierals in the ratios that they were used to build a reef in the first place. I wouldnt use that technique though unless you are monitoring your Ph incase there is a malfunction. This is something where a Apex Controller or even a Seneye control are worth their weight in gold. But until then I am dripping Kalk +2 on my smaller tanks and it works out just fine. ALL my make up water is Kalk +2 at night so my Ph levels stay nice and consistent and most of the more important parameters are keep in check.

I have done a few studies with Garf in the past that they have run and found it very interesting and even picked up some nice tips on coral propagation and coral pruning. It was fun and I wished I was closer so I could do that again. I learned so much from those guys even though they are pretty old school in so many ways. Several times I have donated dozens of frags that were to be placed on old coral reefs that had been damaged or died to restore them. If your able to do that sort of thing thing by all means do so, it will only teach a lot more about the hobby and the critters in it. Thats whats so awesome about this hobby as there are so many directions you can take it and enjoy it.

Folks thinking out side the box is the reason this hobby as progressed as far as it has since I got into it 20 years ago. Im mean think about the technology changes that have occurred in this hobby since 2000 to present. Back in the day corals came in two different colors ho-hum green and Doo-Doo Brown. Most corals were disposable and short term additions. We were just moving away from 6500k Iwasaki's and Actinic NO bulbs and still using under ground filters in many cases. SPS corals truly were for experts only back then! Today....no one would even think about a set up like that and expect much in the way of success!

Since your a Former Halide guy here is why I went with Kessil lights over other options. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBPlZAp1czk) Its not the cheapest option and there are more expensive options to be sure. I did find it to be comprable to a halide from a results stand point in many ways. I also liked its simplicity of operation and design too. I have also found that using multiple LED fixtures over the minimum required gave me better light dispersion and coverage and to a large extent minimizes shading the undersides of corals and creating darker areas of the tank that are subtule to detect unless you got a PAR meter. Spacing multiple LED's over a tank evenly is not always your best course of action, refer to BRS TV to see what I mean on some of their light videos. I think most manufactures are a little generous on what their lights can actually cover with even PAR and not cause hot spots in the tank and on just how deep their lights can generate those kinds of PAR numbers needed for corals.

Anyways...enough rambling!

Dude, thanks for the detailed input! Please continue to ramble! You made one of the most nostalgic and relatable comments I ever read! You are absolutely right this hobby has come a long way. It was just hum dum green and doo doo brown. The lights were very low kelvin, fluorescents... I remember when I came in, halides upgraded to like an HQI or something? I don't see these around anymore. Smaller bulbs. The LED's seem to have rocketed since then.

Good observation on LED's light spread, how certain coral could have underside shaded differently. I didn't really think about this. Come to think of it, some straight up PC's/VHO or even a powerful halide gave great color and growth.

I DID notice that corals are becoming SUPER colorful. Obviously 20k has been a fad, or something else with LED's that I am not entirely aware of.

You're right about the calcium reactor as well, the ocean itself would be eroding whatever's left in the water column in a similar manner, no?

Got any shots of your coraline growth with the tank?

[reefteaser]

Not sure about the halide brand, I never got into them. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s I had two 55 gal tanks with fish and a few soft corals, and used fluorescent lights. I left the hobby for about 10 years and then used compact fluorescent and T-5’s. When I first tried LED’s they were not great, but eventually upgraded to a Reefbreeder fixture with good success. On a second, smaller tank I got a deal on a Hydor LED and it works great. I’m selling that now and concentrating on my 115 gal reef with the Kessil upgrade. REALLY happy with that decision.
No, haven’t ever owned an Apex, or any controller. The Wave engine is the closest thing I use, and it’s really been terrific for me.
Btw, I used kalk on my smaller (30 gal) reef with a little supplementation of 2-part via a doser. It didn’t take long to get the precise dosing right for an extremely stable tank with great color and growth. Eventually though, I just grew tired of maintaining both, so I’m currently selling it (shameless plug, it’s listed in the for sale section).
Dosing 2-part, trace elements, amino acids, and just starting to dose nitrate. Already seeing a nice response, which is weird having spent so much effort reducing them not that long ago!

[Imaexpat2]

Originally Posted by lebowski

You're right about the calcium reactor as well, the ocean itself would be eroding whatever's left in the water column in a similar manner, no?

Got any shots of your coraline growth with the tank?

Kinda sorta but not quite. A Calcium reactor is like a Lambo compared to a Smart car. Both will get you there, but one gets you there in style and a lot faster!

Both my current tanks are fairly new start ups so there is minimal coralline algae at the moment. One however does have about 5 50 cent sized spots and lots of smaller specks popping up here and there. I am just now starting to drip Kalk in them and usually it explodes shortly there after. Besides the only camera I have right now is a crappy cheap cell phone camera...my cannon10d died a couple years ago and I really havent had the fun dollars to replace it as of yet. Covid 19 shut downs aint helping that situation!

[Sk8r]

I've been in and out of the hobby multiple times in my life. After a crosscountry move and the painful renunciation of the hobby in OKC, then had a change of apartments, and discovered I'd moved in down the street from a reef store. Doomed! Very happily so. My now-living room floor has two little holes in it leading to a basement sump... etc. You cannot escape this hobby. not forever.

Nothing wrong with the MH, especially for stony coral. Kalk in the topoff water is perfectly adequate for same. I'm old school, no dosers, just a test schedule. Nothing wrong with the new stuff either.

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I've been in and out of the hobby multiple times in my life. After a crosscountry move and the painful renunciation of the hobby in OKC, then had a change of apartments, and discovered I'd moved in down the street from a reef store. Doomed! Very happily so. My now-living room floor has two little holes in it leading to a basement sump... etc. You cannot escape this hobby. not forever.

Nothing wrong with the MH, especially for stony coral. Kalk in the topoff water is perfectly adequate for same. I'm old school, no dosers, just a test schedule. Nothing wrong with the new stuff either.

What are the LFS like in WA near you? Have you been near Chicago by any chance?

[discussmith]

I’m also in the planning stages of getting back after a long time away. My equipment needs are less as I have a tank and a hob sump that will operate like a aio setup. I have pumps and heaters. Just need lighting, rocks, substrate, salt and ready to go. I have everything I would need to set up a lot of automation. My biggest concern and a major hesitation is there is a potential for me having to be away for as much as a month on occasion and while automation can help for some things I can’t see how a system could operate unaided that long.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Lebowski! How the heck are you!! It's nice to see returning members. I wish you much success on your new endeavor!

[Twoteal]

I find myself returning after a number of years. I had been breeding Apistogrammas and Shell dwelling cichlids for the last 20 years as a main focus. Just spent the last month taking down my fishroom and cleaning everything up and decided to go back to a time I was happy and most at peace. My god things have changed, I always kept up with bits and pieces of reef keeping and I think a lot of the pitfalls of the 90's are much more understood today.

[lebowski]

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Lebowski! How the heck are you!! It's nice to see returning members. I wish you much success on your new endeavor!

Hey! I'm alive! I'm doing great! How are you? I'm glad to see that someone recognizes me here!

I will be posting my journey here shortly. I am considering some unique ideas..

Here is what I'm rolling in my mind. Any input is always appreciated.

1.Species tank- Heteractis Magnifica w/ Amphiprion ocellaris
2. Species tank- Stychodactyla Gigantea w/ Amphiprion latezonatus
3. Shallow reef tank paludarium.


I am really interested in option 3 for the time being. Have any of you seen theses paludariums? Take a look here if you are unfamiliar: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paludarium

This guy has a nice attempt at what I'm thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KDY4vvna9I&t=238s

I would like to become extremely creative here as I have set aside a good amount of cash for this project.

Hope to hear from you guys shortly! Happy Tuesday!

[Sugar Magnolia]

I've always been a fan of the shallow reef tanks, the one you linked is stunning! I just love how it can be viewed from so many angles and the visual impact is different from every angle. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to build!

[Sk8r]

I'm in eastern WA, and we have several small stores in Spokane, two that I frequent, but one has just been sold (again) to another operator. I understand there are a number of stores in Seattle metroplex, but I'm not sure.

[Habib]

Hi Lebowski! I remember you!