kalk in ato evaporation question

james30ct · 11/17/2015, 04:10 PM

Trying kalk instead of 2 part. Should help because ph is usually low in my tank. My tank is 180g w 40 gal sump. I have a clam and a bunch of frags mostly sps. The tank evaporates about 1.7 gallons a day.

Is that too much evap for kalk? Do I do 1tsp for every gallon of ro/di I add to the reservoir? Thanks for any help.

Heres the tank

disc1 · 11/17/2015, 04:23 PM

How much alkalinity drop do you have per day? That's where you'll get how much kalk you need per day. From that and your evaporation rate you can get how much kalk per gallon.

DrBoxedWine · 11/18/2015, 11:47 AM

I do 3 tsp per gallon for my 75g. The limit is supposed to be 2 tsp, but Randy Holmes did an article about how dosing vinegar through the ATO (which I also do) raises the capacity for how much Kalk can be dissolved into the water.

I think you're totally fine. If anything, you may find you can quite meet your tanks needs with Kalk. I'm in the Super dry Denver area, and I evaporate about a gallon a day for my 75g... Kalk can barely keep up.

DrBoxedWine · 11/18/2015, 05:52 PM

*may find you can't

james30ct · 11/19/2015, 05:09 PM

Dialed it back a bit and I'm gonna try 1/4tsp/gal and check alk and see how it stands.

DrBoxedWine · 11/19/2015, 05:59 PM

Yeah give it a shot!

DrBoxedWine · 11/19/2015, 06:01 PM

My tank doesn't have that many more corals than you, and 3 tsp barely covers it, so keep an eye on it.

DrBoxedWine · 11/19/2015, 06:02 PM

Also, I think I'm about to upgrade to a 180. How long have you had yours?

james30ct · 11/20/2015, 03:08 PM

Probably around 6 months.

outy · 11/20/2015, 06:31 PM

I use a calcium reactor and kalk because my demands are so high, and like you it helps PH

kalk by itself is not often used long term as a solution.

You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way

Syntax1325 · 11/21/2015, 08:21 AM

Kalk in ato worked for me for a while during the winter; however, when the summer came and evaporation slowed down I couldn't keep up with my alk and calc needs and started 2 part. Two part is ok besides having to keep an eye on tank salinity, I have to remove about a gallon a week of water and allow the ato to kick in and bring my salinity back to 35.

james30ct · 11/21/2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

Kalk in ato worked for me for a while during the winter; however, when the summer came and evaporation slowed down I couldn't keep up with my alk and calc needs and started 2 part. Two part is ok besides having to keep an eye on tank salinity, I have to remove about a gallon a week of water and allow the ato to kick in and bring my salinity back to 35.

2 part adds salinity?

Syntax1325 · 11/21/2015, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james30ct

2 part adds salinity?

Yes....

A Quote from Bertoni regarding the chemical reaction that turns the alk and calc solution into table salt:

"They are mostly calcium chloride and sodium carbonate (or bicarbonate), so when the corals deposit calcium carbonate, NaCl (table salt) gets left behind."

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1940206

bertoni · 11/21/2015, 11:20 PM

Ye, the two-parts leave behind table salt.

tmz · 11/22/2015, 11:16 AM

You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way.

YES, way.

There are many tanks with lots of growing sps and other calcifying organisms including mine that meet the need for alk and calcium with kalk alone .

Syntax1325 · 11/22/2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way.

YES, way.

There are many tanks with lots of growing sps and other calcifying organisms including mine that meet the need for alk and calcium with kalk alone .

Can you explain how you keep up with alk and calc demands once kalk in ato doesn't keep up? I was doing just fine with kalk in ato last winter but my evap rate slowed down during the spring and summer months leaving me with a deficit.

bertoni · 11/23/2015, 11:21 AM

One way to handle that is to use a fan to increase the evaporation rate. Other people just use both 2-part and Kalk.

tmz · 11/23/2015, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

Can you explain how you keep up with alk and calc demands once kalk in ato doesn't keep up? I was doing just fine with kalk in ato last winter but my evap rate slowed down during the spring and summer months leaving me with a deficit.

I dose a consistent amount of fully saturated kalk/ limewater from a still reservoir 24/7 in small increments throughout the day at the same rate all year. I set the daily amount ( 20 liters/ 5.2 gallons for a 650 gallon system)to a little less than the lowest seasonal daily top off and make up any shortfall in top off with ro/di water. This together with daily 1% water changes holds the alk and calcium at 8.5dkh and 460ppm ,respectively in a system packed with sps. The small increments minimize losses to precipitation ;combined with a consistent daily rate a steady alk level is maintained.

Two part dosing to supplement it hasn't been necessary as a routine but is easy to do manually if a tweak is desired or with dosing pumps on an ongoing basis. Using a calcium reactor along with kalk can also help and the lower pH of the calcium reactor effluent will help mitigate the pH rising effect of the kalk dosing. I have a calcium reactor but haven't needed to use it in over 5 years.

cardiffgiant · 11/23/2015, 01:19 PM

dsovetsky, I used to do it the way that you did, but the tank did not react well to seasonal fluctuations in evaporation rate.

Now I do it hte way that tmz does, a fixed amount of kalk each day (programmed with my Apex with failsaifes for high ph and overfilling) and then use ATO float switch to top off with RO water if the fixed amount of kalk is less than evaporation. The consistency has been great for me.

james30ct · 11/24/2015, 03:21 PM

5 days later and alk is staying at 8.5. I will keep checking as time goes by.

jason2459 · 11/24/2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way.

YES, way.

There are many tanks with lots of growing sps and other calcifying organisms including mine that meet the need for alk and calcium with kalk alone .

If I recall you use coralife ASW on a 1% daily change out? That mixes to the mid to high 500's in calcium right? That would help a bit more then someone on a salt mix with lower calcium. I'm not sure how much help?

edit: didn't see your following post confirming the 1% daily change

11/17/2015, 04:10 PM	#1
james30ct Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Groton, Ct Posts: 1,218	kalk in ato evaporation question Trying kalk instead of 2 part. Should help because ph is usually low in my tank. My tank is 180g w 40 gal sump. I have a clam and a bunch of frags mostly sps. The tank evaporates about 1.7 gallons a day. Is that too much evap for kalk? Do I do 1tsp for every gallon of ro/di I add to the reservoir? Thanks for any help. Heres the tank

11/17/2015, 04:23 PM	#2
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	How much alkalinity drop do you have per day? That's where you'll get how much kalk you need per day. From that and your evaporation rate you can get how much kalk per gallon. __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

11/21/2015, 08:21 AM	#11
Syntax1325 Acro Addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 598	Kalk in ato worked for me for a while during the winter; however, when the summer came and evaporation slowed down I couldn't keep up with my alk and calc needs and started 2 part. Two part is ok besides having to keep an eye on tank salinity, I have to remove about a gallon a week of water and allow the ato to kick in and bring my salinity back to 35. __________________ Back to halides and loving it! Current Tank Info: 180g sps dom, 40b sump, Reeflo Dart, Apex, Aquamaxx co2, Reefbrite mh/led pendants w/14k twinarcs, Kore 5th doser, Tunze ATO, Ranco controlling 800 watt Finnex tube, 2 Maxpect Gyre 150XF with Ice Cap Controllers and battery backup, Bean Animal drain

11/21/2015, 11:20 PM	#14
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Ye, the two-parts leave behind table salt. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/22/2015, 11:16 AM	#15
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way. YES, way. There are many tanks with lots of growing sps and other calcifying organisms including mine that meet the need for alk and calcium with kalk alone . __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/18/2015, 11:47 AM	#3
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	I do 3 tsp per gallon for my 75g. The limit is supposed to be 2 tsp, but Randy Holmes did an article about how dosing vinegar through the ATO (which I also do) raises the capacity for how much Kalk can be dissolved into the water. I think you're totally fine. If anything, you may find you can quite meet your tanks needs with Kalk. I'm in the Super dry Denver area, and I evaporate about a gallon a day for my 75g... Kalk can barely keep up.

11/18/2015, 05:52 PM	#4
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	*may find you can't

11/19/2015, 05:09 PM	#5
james30ct Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Groton, Ct Posts: 1,218	Dialed it back a bit and I'm gonna try 1/4tsp/gal and check alk and see how it stands.

11/19/2015, 05:59 PM	#6
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	Yeah give it a shot!

11/19/2015, 06:01 PM	#7
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	My tank doesn't have that many more corals than you, and 3 tsp barely covers it, so keep an eye on it.

11/19/2015, 06:02 PM	#8
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	Also, I think I'm about to upgrade to a 180. How long have you had yours?

11/20/2015, 03:08 PM	#9
james30ct Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Groton, Ct Posts: 1,218	Probably around 6 months.

11/20/2015, 06:31 PM	#10
outy Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: auburn CA Posts: 4,021	I use a calcium reactor and kalk because my demands are so high, and like you it helps PH kalk by itself is not often used long term as a solution. You might get away with it for a little bit longer, but once growth starts NO way

11/23/2015, 11:21 AM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	One way to handle that is to use a fan to increase the evaporation rate. Other people just use both 2-part and Kalk. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/23/2015, 01:19 PM	#19
cardiffgiant Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 3,455	dsovetsky, I used to do it the way that you did, but the tank did not react well to seasonal fluctuations in evaporation rate. Now I do it hte way that tmz does, a fixed amount of kalk each day (programmed with my Apex with failsaifes for high ph and overfilling) and then use ATO float switch to top off with RO water if the fixed amount of kalk is less than evaporation. The consistency has been great for me.

11/24/2015, 03:21 PM	#20
james30ct Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Groton, Ct Posts: 1,218	5 days later and alk is staying at 8.5. I will keep checking as time goes by.