Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 01/26/2016, 12:28 PM   #2801
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Maybe the best agent against bad dinos is good dinos?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 12:32 PM   #2802
PorkchopExpress
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wrigleyville
Posts: 103
#AllDinosMatter


PorkchopExpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 12:57 PM   #2803
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
We use dinos as a common population, but just like there's good bacteria and bad bacteria, the same can apply to dinos. Zooxanthelle are dinos and they're helpful and symbiotic.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 12:58 PM   #2804
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Maybe instead of looking at the osteo plaguing a sick system, we should look at what's plentiful in a healthy system.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 03:50 PM   #2805
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Has anybody had success by getting rid of sandbed? They are all over my sandbed.


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 03:53 PM   #2806
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
For those that start over. What did you do with corals? I have sps and I know if I get rid of the sps, I wont be able to add it back to tank for another 6-8 months until take is mature enough again. This is the only thing holding me back from starting over. I am at the last straw though. I am giving up. I might even try dino x at this point. Honestly


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 04:15 PM   #2807
iced98lx
Registered Member
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,258
mine aren't horrid or actively killing coral at this point but I am going to attempt to introduce additional bacteria via bacteria in a bottle of various kinds as well as dosing with phyto. We'll see where that gets me.


iced98lx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 04:18 PM   #2808
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
mine aren't horrid or actively killing coral at this point but I am going to attempt to introduce additional bacteria via bacteria in a bottle of various kinds as well as dosing with phyto. We'll see where that gets me.
What bacteria will you be going with?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 04:32 PM   #2809
iced98lx
Registered Member
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
What bacteria will you be going with?
I'm going to use Dr. Tim's one and only & Eco-Balance as well as MB7 and Bio-Spira. They're likely all mixes of the same 2-3 strains but I'm willing to try them all to see. I'm going to add some air stones overnight to keep the oxygen levels up and dose slightly above suggested dosing.

I'll probably wait and add the phyto after I'm done doing the bacteria.

I started with all dry rock, and it's my thought that I have a very limited number of types. I'm not a biologist though, so it's just as much a shot in the dark as other attempts. After this and phyto I'll regroup if no change in 3 months and look at an extended blackout.


iced98lx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 04:40 PM   #2810
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
I tried dr tims one and only already. And ordering these bacteria's online may not be such a good idea since they will come in a box without proper packaging and endure very cold weather which may kill the bacterias. Just my opinion.


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 04:52 PM   #2811
PorkchopExpress
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wrigleyville
Posts: 103
it's not a good idea to reintroduce infected fish/corals/sand/water into a restarted tank anyway...if you're going to restart, you restart everything...dinos can hitchhike on anything including fish gills and inside corals


PorkchopExpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:11 PM   #2812
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Dinos are everywhere. It's like the common cold.?you only catch it if your immune system is depressed.

I'd recommend selling or giving them to someone with a mature stable tank. I've often thought that aquarium stores should run pet-hotel tanks with individual UV and you can pay for the accommodations until you're ready. Or sell them if it's going to take a while.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:15 PM   #2813
iced98lx
Registered Member
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
I tried dr tims one and only already. And ordering these bacteria's online may not be such a good idea since they will come in a box without proper packaging and endure very cold weather which may kill the bacterias. Just my opinion.

Yep that is absolutely true of those not in spore form.


iced98lx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:17 PM   #2814
iced98lx
Registered Member
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,258
Since I didn't explicitly state it, I'll also be continuing the manual removal that has kept them mostly at bay as well as the water changes that likely are fueling them. I'm not willing to give up coral growth I'm seeing just yet.


iced98lx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:34 PM   #2815
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
Since I didn't explicitly state it, I'll also be continuing the manual removal that has kept them mostly at bay as well as the water changes that likely are fueling them. I'm not willing to give up coral growth I'm seeing just yet.
How do you manual remove them? With filter socks? I bought filter socks online for 6.50 each but they aren't washable, so I use them once and throw them away. Can get quite expensive.


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:35 PM   #2816
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Dinos are everywhere. It's like the common cold.?you only catch it if your immune system is depressed.

I'd recommend selling or giving them to someone with a mature stable tank. I've often thought that aquarium stores should run pet-hotel tanks with individual UV and you can pay for the accommodations until you're ready. Or sell them if it's going to take a while.
Thanks for reply. So where is my immune booster at? lol


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 05:42 PM   #2817
iced98lx
Registered Member
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
How do you manual remove them? With filter socks? I bought filter socks online for 6.50 each but they aren't washable, so I use them once and throw them away. Can get quite expensive.
I've been using a vacuum/siphon and simply sucking them out of the tank and replacing with new salt water. That method isn't going to irradiate them obviously. as like cyano you can't get every cell. I keeps them at low enough levels if done daily that I feel like I've got room for another bacteria to compete? Again, pure grade-A speculation.


iced98lx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 06:25 PM   #2818
csammis
Mental Institution
 
csammis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
For those that start over. What did you do with corals? I have sps and I know if I get rid of the sps, I wont be able to add it back to tank for another 6-8 months until take is mature enough again. This is the only thing holding me back from starting over. I am at the last straw though. I am giving up. I might even try dino x at this point. Honestly
I really think you should give the dirty method more time. I know it's frustrating but according to your previous posts you've been at this method for about a week, right? Other people in this thread have said that it takes several weeks to show results.

Starting over is an individual choice, sure, but a ton of evidence presented here says that dirty method works given time and starting over can be very expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9
I bought filter socks online for 6.50 each but they aren't washable, so I use them once and throw them away. Can get quite expensive.
Have you considered making your own?


csammis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 06:56 PM   #2819
EdenR
Registered Member
 
EdenR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Dinos are everywhere. It's like the common cold.?you only catch it if your immune system is depressed.

I'd recommend selling or giving them to someone with a mature stable tank. I've often thought that aquarium stores should run pet-hotel tanks with individual UV and you can pay for the accommodations until you're ready. Or sell them if it's going to take a while.
Sadly I don't think that's good advice to tell someone with dinos to knowingly sell/give/trade their corals to someone else. That is exactly how I got them. I've ran a reef tank for over 10 years and never had a problem until I bought corals from someone that had them. The very next day was when I started seeing the stringy, slimy, dinos on my corals and by the end of the week my tank was fully covered in them. I even dipped the corals like I always do. I know it came from the frags because searching through my local forums I saw that the guy I bought the corals from asked for advice about how to get rid of them. I even contacted him and he said he had them before and was able to get rid of them through water changes. Clearly he was lying.

I've seen a lot of other local reefers lately getting them and it's spreading. They don't just come from nowhere. All tanks may have some form of dinos such as zooxanthelle but not all tanks have every kind like ostreopsis and amphidium.


EdenR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 07:13 PM   #2820
taricha
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NE Miss
Posts: 608
3 days in, Operation: Grow Algae has so far, not shown any signs of increasing algae, but the dinos have intensified very noticeably. Still no harmful livestock effects that I can see, so that's good.

The patch at the front of the tank with the species I haven't ID yet has gotten thick enough I could siphon a hunk of pure dinos.
Here's some shots on 400x


I took a series of this view shifting focal plane slightly on each shot, Google photos stitched it into an animation.
Can see it here https://goo.gl/photos/qS1dc3C3uzCpbmvZ8

I think I let the sample dry, then added water back, seemed to separate the armor off the dinos.



I'll stop spamming thread with pics for ID, since this is about the best I can do. Working my way through this link http://botany.si.edu/references/dinoflag/ to see what I come up with.


taricha is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 07:41 PM   #2821
undbulsu
Registered Member
 
undbulsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
What bacteria will you be going with?
I can only tell you what I did. I do have a BS in Microbiology and used that knowledge to try and approach this in a natural way. A newbie to reef aquariums, however,and my first bout of Dinos.

1. I decreased my photoperiod to 5 hours a day.
Less light, less growth

2. Started running GFO, Phosguard, and Carbon, changing out Phosguard and GFO once a week
Trying to get phosphates at 0 and keep them there

3. Added a Cermedia Marine Pure 8x8x4 block to the sump
Supposed to help get a larger population of nitrate reducing bacteria

4. Aggressive wet skimming. Replaced the skimmate with fresh saltwater.
Only water changes I did
Trying to deplete any other nutrients the dinos may be living on.

5. Siphoning the dinos into a filter sock in the sump every day.
Getting rid of as much of the population as I can while exporting any other nutrients they need to grow

6. Used Coral Snow mixed with Zeobak every morning before lights came on every day.
Coral Snow is supposed to adsorb organics from the water column and Zeobak are another bacteria source.

7. Dosed Probidio biodigest (bacteria) and bioptim once every week
More bacteria to compete with the dino

8. Phytoplankton and Pods from Algaebarn.
More competition

Much of what I did is also recommended as a treatment for Cyano.

After a month, lights are back up, no dinos and only lost half of a birdsnest coral to the dinos.

We'll see.


__________________
Red Sea Reefer 450, Geisemann Aurora, Vertex 150 Skimmer. Just getting started.

Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 450, Geisemann aurora, Vertex 150
undbulsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 07:46 PM   #2822
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by csammis View Post
I really think you should give the dirty method more time. I know it's frustrating but according to your previous posts you've been at this method for about a week, right? Other people in this thread have said that it takes several weeks to show results.

Starting over is an individual choice, sure, but a ton of evidence presented here says that dirty method works given time and starting over can be very expensive.



Have you considered making your own?
Have no idea how to make my own. And I want to give it more time, but the dinos are getting worse with the dirty method. I never use to have stringy snot, now I do. Before, it looked like diatoms all over. Now it looks like diatoms and stringy snot. I don't think the dirty method is the way to go with my type. Really wish I had a microscope to identify my crap.


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 07:47 PM   #2823
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenR View Post
Sadly I don't think that's good advice to tell someone with dinos to knowingly sell/give/trade their corals to someone else. That is exactly how I got them. I've ran a reef tank for over 10 years and never had a problem until I bought corals from someone that had them. The very next day was when I started seeing the stringy, slimy, dinos on my corals and by the end of the week my tank was fully covered in them. I even dipped the corals like I always do. I know it came from the frags because searching through my local forums I saw that the guy I bought the corals from asked for advice about how to get rid of them. I even contacted him and he said he had them before and was able to get rid of them through water changes. Clearly he was lying.

I've seen a lot of other local reefers lately getting them and it's spreading. They don't just come from nowhere. All tanks may have some form of dinos such as zooxanthelle but not all tanks have every kind like ostreopsis and amphidium.
Have you gotten rid of yours?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 07:51 PM   #2824
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by undbulsu View Post
I can only tell you what I did. I do have a BS in Microbiology and used that knowledge to try and approach this in a natural way. A newbie to reef aquariums, however,and my first bout of Dinos.

1. I decreased my photoperiod to 5 hours a day.
Less light, less growth

2. Started running GFO, Phosguard, and Carbon, changing out Phosguard and GFO once a week
Trying to get phosphates at 0 and keep them there

3. Added a Cermedia Marine Pure 8x8x4 block to the sump
Supposed to help get a larger population of nitrate reducing bacteria

4. Aggressive wet skimming. Replaced the skimmate with fresh saltwater.
Only water changes I did
Trying to deplete any other nutrients the dinos may be living on.

5. Siphoning the dinos into a filter sock in the sump every day.
Getting rid of as much of the population as I can while exporting any other nutrients they need to grow

6. Used Coral Snow mixed with Zeobak every morning before lights came on every day.
Coral Snow is supposed to adsorb organics from the water column and Zeobak are another bacteria source.

7. Dosed Probidio biodigest (bacteria) and bioptim once every week
More bacteria to compete with the dino

8. Phytoplankton and Pods from Algaebarn.
More competition

Much of what I did is also recommended as a treatment for Cyano.

After a month, lights are back up, no dinos and only lost half of a birdsnest coral to the dinos.

We'll see.
Thanks for the advice. What kind of pods did you add and how many? And how often did you dose phyto? and how much?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/26/2016, 08:03 PM   #2825
reefcentral123
Moved On
 
reefcentral123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 60
hello. does anybody have a link to a resource for ID of the dinoflagellates? i saw a link earlier this page i will check that out but if there's any other resource please share.

what do you guys think of these bad boys?





my dino outbreak started from after i cleaned my sump and reduced phos to 0 and nitrates very fast and then dumping shot of vodka every night.

now i am feed much more, adding H2O2, phyto, and will culture copepods in the hopes of more competition and hostility environemtn for this annoying organisms.


reefcentral123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.