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11/07/2017, 06:39 PM | #1 |
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LED lighting: Cluster vs. Panel
So the title says it all. If designing a new LED light fixture should I lean towards a cluster arrangement to get more of a spotlight effect or should I arrange the LEDs in a panel to get more even coverage throughout the tank (ideally).
I would like to focus on more scientific reasons for this such as coral and system health, and less on aesthetics like "this one looks better". Looking forward to the discussion!
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11/07/2017, 06:44 PM | #2 |
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Spread out panel will be far better for SPS, once they grow in the cluster will cause a lot of shadowing. That's if your going with SPS.
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11/07/2017, 07:08 PM | #3 |
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Any concern over un-even color spectrum? With LED colors where there are only a few emitters for the whole fixture, wouldn't these not fully blend with each other potentially creating hot and cold spots?
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11/08/2017, 06:02 AM | #4 | |
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I went a step further and added 2 led strip fixtures to my main led fixture (Photon V2). I have all blue at the back of the tank and a mix of white and blue at the front of the tank. I have not seen any real difference with how the corals react at the front vs the back of the tank. Clusters of leds can been fine as well, assuming you have a number of them spread over the tank, like 3 or 4 Radions or a Reef Breeders Aquasanrise which has multiple pucks.
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11/08/2017, 07:28 AM | #5 |
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If one were clearly better than the other, the industry would have completely migrated that way - though my unscientific observation is that more and more seem to be going the clutter route. I've used both and have no real preference for one over the other.
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11/08/2017, 08:27 AM | #6 | |
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I wonder if this is for aesthetics, as in better blending/less disco, and better shimmer? That seems to be a big focus of led manufacturers. The main arguments against leds especially for sps being uneven coverage, my opinion is that the bulk of the industry is going towards aesthetics over functionality. Might not be true, but that is where my headspace is right now with it. You see it more and more with other products too. Curb appeal wins over functionality for a lot of people these days... |
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11/08/2017, 09:12 AM | #7 |
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If you are designing a totally new LED fixture, then get a whole bunch of them and shine them up into a reflector from a small cluster in the center. That actually has not been done. That should get rid of shadows and color mixing. It will be likely be more power, though.
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11/08/2017, 10:03 AM | #8 |
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From physics point of view of the light beam, if you cluster them together, they start off mixing better this taking away any disco effect but adding more shimmer as they are clisely packed(kessil).
Compared to when you have them spread out. Every bulb emits their own beam and they get a chance to blend with other colors only half way, before hitting the tank water. So chance of disco effect is more. If you are spacing them apart on apanel then make sure not to cluster too many greens and reds together, but spread them out from each other, so that they can blend in better to avoid any hotspots or color focuses. Personally i thing lights places closely and covered with wider angle lens gives the best blend. Thats what kessil does! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
11/08/2017, 10:51 AM | #9 |
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A panel of clusters, similar to the GHL Mitras. Each cluster is densely packed to provide a blended spectrum while the 6 clusters are spread apart and pushed to the sides/corner on the panel, not in one line.
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11/08/2017, 03:11 PM | #10 |
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Can't think of any scientific reason for a cluster...
All are aesthetics or design issues.. Best would be a cluster on a moving arc across the tank simulating a normal sunrise/sunset geometry.. Sun's rays on the ocean are basically perpendicular to the surface at noonish (emulated more by panel than cluster) and the angle changes by rising and falling (emulated more by moving a well collimated cluster) the "scientific" basis would be catering to the natural geometry of the world.. so the rest is more "cultural and aesthetics" kind of depends on your definition of "scientific".. Last edited by oreo57; 11/08/2017 at 03:20 PM. |
11/08/2017, 03:23 PM | #11 | |
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not meaning to pick on you per se.. just a random thought.. Secondly you can solve all blending problems by "proper" phosphor contents on a rb pump (or better yet a violet one) diode.. That is a manuf design choice. As to shading and killing branches. that will be detrimental to a coral form not function or possibly even growth An aesthetic issue.. |
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11/08/2017, 04:50 PM | #12 | |
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For your second I would love someone to come out with a RGB phosphor on a violet pump in a 14 - 16 K color temp. That would be great but it looks like current offerings in areas like high end photography and art lighting is only low powered. I would guess we are still having problems pumping the higher energy violet through phosphor coatings at high power or there is no other commercial use to develop it. The third I am going to say I disagree. One of the biggest arguments against LED compared to MH/T-5 is how hard it is to keep the base and lower branches alive. Dying coral falls firmly in the "coral health" argument from the OP. |
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11/08/2017, 07:22 PM | #13 |
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Panel is far better than cluster. I wont buy any of these single/two cluster units, just no coverage.
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11/08/2017, 09:24 PM | #14 |
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11/08/2017, 10:13 PM | #15 | |
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Last edited by jda; 11/08/2017 at 10:19 PM. |
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11/08/2017, 10:15 PM | #16 |
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11/09/2017, 07:50 AM | #17 |
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Why not both? This is my preferred method of lighting right now. Many clusters, but in panel form. No optics for a much more even spread and no disco, blending is fantastic.
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11/09/2017, 08:52 AM | #18 | |
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Nice. That looks like one of Dave’s Nanobox creations. Is that yours? If so, did you use the 2 available end T5 bulb slots for T5 supplentation?
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11/09/2017, 10:42 AM | #19 | |
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11/09/2017, 04:07 PM | #20 |
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I went with the new ocean revives instead of mars aqua solely because they had there panels spread out with higher wattage going to each led.
I get no real disco effect and shimmer similar to my MH lighting before. hate the shadowing but I may raise lights higher to adjust that, since most do not run at 100%, I can raise lights and get better spread and not loose any par once the light is turned up afterwards. |
11/09/2017, 07:54 PM | #21 | |
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11/10/2017, 03:25 PM | #22 |
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Take a look @ the newest video from BRS TV on the Kessil AP700.
Should answer your questions.
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11/11/2017, 01:11 AM | #23 |
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Thanks for all the information folks!
Lots to consider for sure...
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11/11/2017, 07:01 AM | #24 |
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I’ve used both and have not seen any difference. Currently I am using two radions over a 120. It was doing the job but after getting coral from two guys local to me I changed. One was doing straight t5’s and the other had two radions and four t5 ‘s supplementing them. Their tanks were growing coral,all kinds, much faster with better color then I was. I added the t5’s and my coral has taken off.
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11/11/2017, 05:01 PM | #25 | |
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~TimmyD “Jellyfish are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful.” Karl Pilkington |
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