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Old 02/21/2018, 08:24 PM   #1
jiminy_crime
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Nori producing nutrients?

I have been feeding my tangs nori daily and I leave it in the tank until they eat it all.

Is leaving it in the tank longer than the recommended 2 hours causing a break down of nutrients? I have been battling GHA and have never dealt with it before and I am attempting to do a better job of reducing nutrients that could be feeding the GHA.

Thanks for any and all input.


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Old 02/21/2018, 08:37 PM   #2
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Nori can be high in phosphates as seaweed like most algae consumes nutrients for growth. If you are doing nothing for nutrient reduction (GFO for example), then you are likely to see a gradual increase in Po4 levels in the tank. If the seaweed is breaking down in the system, that can also contribute to nitrates along with the fish waste from eating the nori. The same however can hold true with pellet food, flake food, mysis etc as 99% of the Po4 we get in our system comes from the food we feed and food waste and fish waste will not only contribute to nitrates but also Po4.


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Old 02/21/2018, 08:53 PM   #3
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Thanks for the input Scott.

I am dosing Nopox for nutrient reduction and donít want to use GFO as I am afraid it will mess with the Nopox. My phosphates have climbed to 0.14 ppm and when I pull the clip out, the remaining Nori that the fish couldnít get to stinks to high heaven. I assumed that had to be fouling the water up.

On a side note, you did change from Kessils to other lights correct? I hadnít seen any updates on your tank since you said you would be switching out to new lights. I ditched my Kessils and switched to ATI T5 and sort of regret it as I lost customization and shimmer.



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Old 02/21/2018, 10:21 PM   #4
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I'm not sure that nori rotting uneaten in the tank versus it being consumed and then pooped out will drive differential levels of end product nitrates. Very small amounts are actually incorporated into fish body mass. You may be feeding too much if it remains uneaten for two hours. I feed a 4x8 sheet daily and it's typically gone in 5 minutes. Not unusual for the bit stuck in the clip jaws to smell like hell.


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Old 02/21/2018, 10:26 PM   #5
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Well some like bristletooth tangs just can't eat it quick, or if you don't have more than one etc..

Tough to have anything but the "leave it in all day" in that situation if you still wan't regular nori.


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Old 02/22/2018, 02:38 AM   #6
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Why do you feed nori if you already have that much of algae in the tank? I dont feed nori as long as there is some form of algae within the tank. If i see a patch of GHA appear, I stop feeding nori until it disappears.

Constantly feeding nori just promotes your herbivores to stop grazing.


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Old 02/22/2018, 04:36 AM   #7
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Why do you feed nori if you already have that much of algae in the tank? I dont feed nori as long as there is some form of algae within the tank. If i see a patch of GHA appear, I stop feeding nori until it disappears.

Constantly feeding nori just promotes your herbivores to stop grazing.
I was wondering the same thing, if you have plenty of algae why use nori? I'm glad I wasn't the only one noticing the irony here.


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Old 02/22/2018, 10:12 AM   #8
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Constantly feeding nori just promotes your herbivores to stop grazing.
No matter how much nori I feed my tank, the fish are always picking at the rocks and tank surfaces.


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Old 02/22/2018, 10:39 AM   #9
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And nori is about the fish’s health, can be supplemented etc. GHA or film algae may not be the best nutrient source...


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Old 02/22/2018, 10:42 AM   #10
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No matter how much nori I feed my tank, the fish are always picking at the rocks and tank surfaces.
Same, literally will as they are being fed normal food (got to chase that mysis within a nip of film algae!), grazers are compulsive lol


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Old 02/22/2018, 11:21 AM   #11
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And nori is about the fish’s health, can be supplemented etc. GHA or film algae may not be the best nutrient source...
Most common type of algae in reef environments is hair algae and film. Nori is mainly made from cold water macro algae. So I dont think it can be a better source of green from GHA.

And Ctenochaetus tangs are not even algae eaters in nature. They they are mainly detritus and biofilm eaters.



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Old 02/22/2018, 11:29 AM   #12
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No matter how much nori I feed my tank, the fish are always picking at the rocks and tank surfaces.
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Same, literally will as they are being fed normal food (got to chase that mysis within a nip of film algae!), grazers are compulsive lol

But in ops case nori stays in the water for hours and start to deteriorate. If they are not even picking on nori, I dont think they will graze on GHA much.

Imo certain fish do not pick on hard to reach or hard to rip algae if they are not hungry. Like my rabbitfish rarely graze on algae if they are full, tangs are little better but they perform much better when not full. Algae growing bluntly in the open is taken up regardless of feeding, but if there is algae that is growing in crevices or in very high flow areas, at least on my case, only a motivated grazer would bother to try to eat it.

But I must also point out that I feed 2 times a day. So in my case that plus nori might be too much. It might work differently if you dont feed everyday but feed nori or feed once a day with nori.


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Old 02/22/2018, 12:15 PM   #13
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But in ops case nori stays in the water for hours and start to deteriorate. If they are not even picking on nori, I dont think they will graze on GHA much.

Imo certain fish do not pick on hard to reach or hard to rip algae if they are not hungry. Like my rabbitfish rarely graze on algae if they are full, tangs are little better but they perform much better when not full. Algae growing bluntly in the open is taken up regardless of feeding, but if there is algae that is growing in crevices or in very high flow areas, at least on my case, only a motivated grazer would bother to try to eat it.

But I must also point out that I feed 2 times a day. So in my case that plus nori might be too much. It might work differently if you dont feed everyday but feed nori or feed once a day with nori.
Too much generalization going on for "grazers", some have the mouth structures to eat it quickly, some do not.

My only point is that "algae not being eaten in minutes" should not be viewed as a problem on its own.


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Old 02/22/2018, 12:19 PM   #14
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Most common type of algae in reef environments is hair algae and film. Nori is mainly made from cold water macro algae. So I dont think it can be a better source of green from GHA.

And Ctenochaetus tangs are not even algae eaters in nature. They they are mainly detritus and biofilm eaters.
Why do you think common equals good? Why do you think being from freshwater is worse?

Do you only feed your tangs detrius and biofilm, if that's "what they eat", why not?

lots of contradicting assertions here that don't really connect; again, nori being in the water for a few hours with minimal or specific grazers should not be viewed as "problem" on its own.


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Old 02/22/2018, 12:42 PM   #15
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Why do you think common equals good? Why do you think being from freshwater is worse?

Do you only feed your tangs detrius and biofilm, if that's "what they eat", why not?

lots of contradicting assertions here that don't really connect; again, nori being in the water for a few hours with minimal or specific grazers should not be viewed as "problem" on its own.
Lol you are changing what I said. I didn't said freshwater and I didn't said common equals good. But you said GHA is not nutritious and my point was on that. It is what most of these fish eat the most in nature. If Nori is as nutritious as you make it to be, it would also be a major water pollutant. So you are the one who who makes contradicting arguments.

And actually yes I feed my tanks detrius and biofilm. When I clean my sump I dont turn of the return pump which pushes all the scraped biofilm and detrius to the DT. Tangs love it.


And about your other point, I also didnt said algae nit eaten in minutes is a problem. My point was why does the OP feed algae if there is already that much of hair algae. That is like adding bottled copepods to a tank that already has a lot of indigenous copepods. The discussion was on consumption of hair algae with or without Nori, it was not on nori causing hair algae.



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Old 02/22/2018, 01:00 PM   #16
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I was under the impression that varieties of Nori were important to the health of tangs. My tangs peck at the rocks all day but I have yet to see them try and eat the GHA. And I donít have a lot of it, I just have it for the first time since I have been in the hobby and wanted to know if leaving the Nori in the tank all day had any Iíll effects on the water quality.


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:07 PM   #17
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Lol you are changing what I said. I didn't said freshwater and I didn't said common equals good. But you said GHA is not nutritious and my point was on that. It is what most of these fish eat the most in nature. If Nori is as nutritious as you make it to be, it would also be a major water pollutant. So you are the one who who makes contradicting arguments.

And actually yes I feed my tanks detrius and biofilm. When I clean my sump I dont turn of the return pump which pushes all the scraped biofilm and detrius to the DT. Tangs love it.


And about your other point, I also didnt said algae nit eaten in minutes is a problem. My point was why does the OP feed algae if there is already that much of hair algae. That is like adding bottled copepods to a tank that already has a lot of indigenous copepods. The discussion was on consumption of hair algae with or without Nori, it was not on nori causing hair algae.
Huh?

I have only said having nori in your tank for hours should not be viewed as problem on its own... that's all. I do not know the exact nutritional value of GHA, I specifically said that, but obviously macro algae in general have been recommended for tangs and other large grazers for a long time. I CAN say that I have yet to see a tank full of film/hair algae satiate a tang over a single day, much less sustain them...

People feed their grazers all sorts of things now, bananas, raw veggies, etc.. to expand nutrition. Nori and macro algae are literally the first step in that direction for people that own grazers, and is the consensus baseline recommendation for supplementing their diet.

Anyway, not all fish will even bother to eat GHA (and no one even asked the OP), so I do not know why you are so fixated on it.... But maybe you should go into business for yourself and sell dried GHA to everyone since we are obviously all wasting our money on substandard algae


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:08 PM   #18
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I was under the impression that varieties of Nori were important to the health of tangs. My tangs peck at the rocks all day but I have yet to see them try and eat the GHA. And I don’t have a lot of it, I just have it for the first time since I have been in the hobby and wanted to know if leaving the Nori in the tank all day had any I’ll effects on the water quality.


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Don't worry, just stop feeding them and force them to eat GHA, no problem, blow some detrius from your sump if they look hungry

I have the same issue, my tang is a annoyingly messy and slow with nori. Frankly I look for more export as the solution (algae reactor for me), and just accept the messy eaters to keep them fat/happy.


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:27 PM   #19
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Huh?

I have only said having nori in your tank for hours should not be viewed as problem on its own... that's all. I do not know the exact nutritional value of GHA, I specifically said that, but obviously macro algae in general have been recommended for tangs and other large grazers for a long time. I CAN say that I have yet to see a tank full of film/hair algae sustain satiate a tang over a single day, much less sustain them...

People feed their grazers all sorts of things now, bananas, raw veggies, etc.. to expand nutrition. Nori and macro algae are literally the first step in that direction for people that own grazers, and is the consensus baseline recommendation for supplementing their diet.

Anyway, not all fish will even bother to eat GHA (and no one even asked the OP), so I do not know why you are so fixated on it.... But maybe you should go into business for yourself and sell dried GHA to everyone since we are obviously all wasting our money on substandard algae
When did I said you should not feed nori or it is a waste of money? Dude you have an issue of making arguments based on stuff that is not said, you should work on that... You can feed your tangs or other fish whatever they want. I never said any of these is a waste of money or anything else. You are still missing the issue and making stuff up. But yeah read my second sentence.


Considering i have several 15+ years old tang, it works for me. Dont know it would work on you or not.


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:28 PM   #20
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Don't worry, just stop feeding them and force them to eat GHA, no problem, blow some detrius from your sump if they look hungry

Lol you 15yo


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:44 PM   #21
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I was under the impression that varieties of Nori were important to the health of tangs. My tangs peck at the rocks all day but I have yet to see them try and eat the GHA. And I don’t have a lot of it, I just have it for the first time since I have been in the hobby and wanted to know if leaving the Nori in the tank all day had any I’ll effects on the water quality.


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Yes greens are important for tangs health. Especially fiber because they can get bloated very easily. Would nori cause nutritional issues, probably not, most of what is eaten is already peeing pooped away anyways. Tangs have very inefficient digestive systems.

So the amount of nori you feed is more important than how long it stays in water. Lime pointed our before, it can be rich in phosphate.

What kind of tangs do you have? Certain ones like tangs Ctenochaetus genus (kole, tomini, chevron, etc), will not eat much of hair algea. They dont also eat or need as much as nori. In my experience, Zebrasoma tangs are generally the best hair algae eaters (especially Sailfin if the tank is large enough) and need nori the most. Rabbitfish are even better for HA, if you want to get a fish for that task.


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Old 02/22/2018, 01:54 PM   #22
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Again, I only responded because it is simply not possible for all tangs/grazers to eat nori quickly, and having to leave algae in the tank is common (they even make clips for it! ). I am in the same position as the OP. Your initial comment was not even applicable to the OP, his fish don't graze GHA and that is pretty common...

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Why do you feed nori if you already have that much of algae in the tank? I dont feed nori as long as there is some form of algae within the tank. If i see a patch of GHA appear, I stop feeding nori until it disappears.

Constantly feeding nori just promotes your herbivores to stop grazing.
Have a good day.


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Old 02/22/2018, 02:21 PM   #23
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I will chime in as I have a yellow Tang and fed him Nori twice a day. I also really battled GHA and didn't really see him eat at it (the GHA), maybe just peck at it.
I have since gotten the Hikari Seaweed Extreme pellets which he loves (and do does everyone else). I still give him one small piece of Nori once a day which he will eat in less than 5 minutes.

Anyway, in my experience the Nori 2x a day definitely contributed to more GHA. The tang was inefficient at eating it, it would get caught in the powerhead, shredded into a bunch of little particles that no one wanted and dirtied the water. So for me at least, I cut back on the Nori and have less GHA.
Eventually I will probably just stick to Hikari Seaweed Extreme, since he can pick those off the sandbed and they don't dirt the water anywhere near like the shredded Nori.


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Old 02/22/2018, 03:08 PM   #24
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Thanks for the input Scott.

I am dosing Nopox for nutrient reduction and donít want to use GFO as I am afraid it will mess with the Nopox. My phosphates have climbed to 0.14 ppm and when I pull the clip out, the remaining Nori that the fish couldnít get to stinks to high heaven. I assumed that had to be fouling the water up.

On a side note, you did change from Kessils to other lights correct? I hadnít seen any updates on your tank since you said you would be switching out to new lights. I ditched my Kessils and switched to ATI T5 and sort of regret it as I lost customization and shimmer.



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I did switch. I need to do an update. I still have some Kessils over the tank but that's mostly because Ideally I would need two more Mitras for best coverage so the remaining Kessils are filling the gaps so to speak. I am also running the Kessils at a really low intensity compared to the Mitras since the Mitras are my primary lights. That said, I love the Mitras. Even the frags in my frag tank love the sole Mitra LX7 over it. I do love the Kessil shimmer but the Mitras put out some shimmer as well.


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Old 02/22/2018, 03:08 PM   #25
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And Ctenochaetus tangs are not even algae eaters in nature. They they are mainly detritus and biofilm eaters.
Thank you, was going to make that same point. I've had my chevie for almost three years and it never even gives the nori a second glance. Spends its day rasping the rocks for film algae and following the other tangs around hoping for a 'treat'.


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