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Old 11/27/2017, 05:12 AM   #301
karimwassef
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Calcium based - aragonite, oolite, coral rubble

It was a controlled DSB experiment... it just doubled as a cryptic zone


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Old 02/12/2018, 05:33 PM   #302
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So if I go on the algae scrubber threads, there is a very specific few ways of doing things. There are formulas to adjust the ATS to how much you feed.

So, say I wanted to make, rather than a refugium or ATS, a cryptic sponge refugium or even a sponge scrubber. What are the optimal conditions I can provide to grow sponge biomass?

As another note, if I wish to make this area view-able, is there a way to make it look nicer? Some of the sponges I have seen growing in a local reef DT are bright orange and encrusting with GSP. Super cool.


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Old 02/12/2018, 06:25 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by wertoiuy View Post
So if I go on the algae scrubber threads, there is a very specific few ways of doing things. There are formulas to adjust the ATS to how much you feed.

So, say I wanted to make, rather than a refugium or ATS, a cryptic sponge refugium or even a sponge scrubber. What are the optimal conditions I can provide to grow sponge biomass?

As another note, if I wish to make this area view-able, is there a way to make it look nicer? Some of the sponges I have seen growing in a local reef DT are bright orange and encrusting with GSP. Super cool.
A cryptic fuge is not viewable because it kept in the dark (cryptic).
Specific sponges that grow in the dark are preferable for filtering as opposed to those that photosynthesis.
Flow rate is another consideration, as is particle size of detritus allowed to enter the cryptic zone environment.

Here is a little read on the subject http://www.aquaristsonline.com/blog/...n-possibility/

and here is where you can buy some very reasonably priced ebooks on the subject by the expert himself, Steve Tyree. I suggest you buy them if you want to set it up correctly. http://reeffarmers.contentshelf.com/shop
I recommend you buy the 'Zonal Complete Package Deal'


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Old 02/12/2018, 08:14 PM   #304
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I saw one the other day that had a tank covered in black plastic square panels.
The front panel was removable, to reveal an attractive display with some neat sponges.

I'm going with a 5 gal bucket with a screw top lid - installed today, maybe it'll grow something interesting. I figure it's got a shot since my display has grown a half dozen hitchhiker sponge colony types.

I have a tube camera I can run down the plumbing into the bucket in a few weeks and see if any progress. If it's really cool, I can unscrew the lid and fully inspect. But it's a 5gal bucket, it'll never be displayable in any real sense.


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Old 02/12/2018, 08:44 PM   #305
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Holy crap this thread is older than my kids....

Unreal. Still has great info.


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Old 02/19/2018, 05:21 PM   #306
wertoiuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha View Post
I saw one the other day that had a tank covered in black plastic square panels.
The front panel was removable, to reveal an attractive display with some neat sponges.
Do you have a link for this, or was this in person?


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Old 02/19/2018, 05:54 PM   #307
taricha
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You'll probably find it if you look up cryptic refugium hollback.
Hollback is the user name of the guy who posted it.


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Old 02/21/2018, 01:18 PM   #308
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Wertoiuy's questions triggered a thought: it might be useful to net this out in a simplified manner that is easily digested. Let me see if I can do this without offending anyone...

"Cryptic zones" and "algae scrubbers" of various types serve different purposes and one is not a good substitute for the other.

An algae scrubber has the following properties:
- Requires light and works best with strong light and moderate to strong water flow.
- When the light is on, it absorbs carbon dioxide and releases oxygen, raising the pH and increasing oxygen levels in the water.
- For growth it absorbs inorganic phosphorous and nitrogen, along with small amounts of other elements such as iron.
- A successfully set up scrubber will produce large quantities of excess algae, which can then be removed from the system. That makes an algae scrubber an efficient mechanism for export of surplus nutrients.
- Some types of algae make good fish food.
- Algae will "leak" organic materials into the water, which may be undesirable. This depends somewhat on the species of algae.

A cryptic zone:
- Works best in the dark (thus, "cryptic") with low to moderate water flow, depending on the species grown. Requires little or no electricity.
- Captures and digests various organic particles from the water, including bacteria.
- For growth, some of that material will be incorporated into the bodies of the cryptic organisms. However, growth tends to be slow compared to algae, so this is not a very efficient mechanism for nutrient export.
- Will excrete various organic and inorganic "wastes", some of which can be good food for other desirable organisms in the system, such as corals.

In effect, algae are a good export mechanism and cryptic organisms are a good recycling mechanism. You might want an algae scrubber if you have excess nutrients that need to be exported, particularly in a heavily fed system. You might want a cryptic zone if you want to make more efficient use of the nutrients in the system, independent of whether you need an export mechanism.


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Old 02/22/2018, 12:04 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAT View Post
Wertoiuy's questions triggered a thought: it might be useful to net this out in a simplified manner that is easily digested. Let me see if I can do this without offending anyone...

"Cryptic zones" and "algae scrubbers" of various types serve different purposes and one is not a good substitute for the other.

An algae scrubber has the following properties:
- Requires light and works best with strong light and moderate to strong water flow.
- When the light is on, it absorbs carbon dioxide and releases oxygen, raising the pH and increasing oxygen levels in the water.
- For growth it absorbs inorganic phosphorous and nitrogen, along with small amounts of other elements such as iron.
- A successfully set up scrubber will produce large quantities of excess algae, which can then be removed from the system. That makes an algae scrubber an efficient mechanism for export of surplus nutrients.
- Some types of algae make good fish food.
- Algae will "leak" organic materials into the water, which may be undesirable. This depends somewhat on the species of algae.

A cryptic zone:
- Works best in the dark (thus, "cryptic") with low to moderate water flow, depending on the species grown. Requires little or no electricity.
- Captures and digests various organic particles from the water, including bacteria.
- For growth, some of that material will be incorporated into the bodies of the cryptic organisms. However, growth tends to be slow compared to algae, so this is not a very efficient mechanism for nutrient export.
- Will excrete various organic and inorganic "wastes", some of which can be good food for other desirable organisms in the system, such as corals.

In effect, algae are a good export mechanism and cryptic organisms are a good recycling mechanism. You might want an algae scrubber if you have excess nutrients that need to be exported, particularly in a heavily fed system. You might want a cryptic zone if you want to make more efficient use of the nutrients in the system, independent of whether you need an export mechanism.
I liked the overall generalization. What was glossed over was the leaked DOC from algae. The DOC from corals is rich in proteins & lipids but the DOC from algae is rich in carbohydrates. The equivalent of junk food for your reef tank. The use of GAC or cryptic sponges rectify this issue.

The sponges in cryptic refugiums are all about recycling DOC into dissolved inorganic carbon and Marine Snow, both of which are food for corals.

PS. I think they complement each other. Add a calcium reactor and your system is on steroids.


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Last edited by Subsea; 02/22/2018 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 02/22/2018, 12:14 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I liked the overall generalization. What was glossed over was the leaked DOC from algae. The DOC from corals is rich in proteins & lipids but the DOC from algae is rich in carbohydrates. The equivalent of junk food for your reef tank. The use of GAC or cryptic sponges rectify this issue.

The sponges in cryptic refugiums are all about recycling DOC into dissolved inorganic carbon and Marine Snow, both of which are food for corals.
Generalizations are running rampant. All photosynthesising organisms produce carbs. The fleshy algaes are the ones that produce al lot of exudates, containing carbs. The algaes typically used for filtration don't exude all that much of anything into the water.


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Old 02/22/2018, 07:19 AM   #311
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Generalizations are running rampant. All photosynthesising organisms produce carbs. The fleshy algaes are the ones that produce al lot of exudates, containing carbs. The algaes typically used for filtration don't exude all that much of anything into the water.
I have not seen the list, but from previous discussion on this thread, chaetomorphy produced the least.

What algae do you use on your turf scrubber?


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Old 02/22/2018, 02:08 PM   #312
taricha
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I have not seen the list, but from previous discussion on this thread, chaetomorphy produced the least.

What algae do you use on your turf scrubber?
I tried to search a bit for descriptions of what algae gives off. Didn't find much, and would love to read details if anybody digs up what sorts of things are given off by common aquarium algaes. Chaeto, caulerpa, and turf scrubber stuff.


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Old 02/22/2018, 05:22 PM   #313
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I have not seen the list, but from previous discussion on this thread, chaetomorphy produced the least.

What algae do you use on your turf scrubber?
What grew naturally on my screen are a couple of genus of Enteromorpha, or ulva. What exact genus??? http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.p...ails&id=144296

It's not hair algae, nor is it a turf algae, as typically described.

The variety of common names illustrates the morphological diversity of this seaweed which is now taxonomically synonymous with the genus Ulva. Colors range from light yellow to dark green. Species can be tubular at the base of the plant or throughout, and branching occurs in some species. Compressed tubes (up to 10 cm [4 inches] wide) are two cell layers thick but the two cell layers can separate to form a hollow tube with walls one cell layer thick.

Species of Enteromorpha can be found throughout the entire intertidal and subtidally. Enteromorpha spp. thrive in a wide range of salinities including areas of fresh water seep and highly saline evaporating tide pools. Species can form dense free-floating mats in protected areas or grow attached to rocks, floats, or other algae. Some species attain lengths of over 30 centimeters (1 foot) but the blades are ribbon or string-like, and do not usually form broad sheets like sea lettuce.


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