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Unread 03/17/2011, 08:46 PM   #26
DarkXerox
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I just got a big batch of esv for my 90g since I don't ever have time to let it sit a day and mix salt (it is in a busy office waiting room). For the last 12 years we had been using NSW however our local source went under last month. So on the first batch it mixed absolutely perfectly with no residue whatsoever. I love how it is 4 parts with two of those as stock solutions since that is exactly how I prep cell culture media that contains anything that has issues with solubility (whether they require pH shifts, heat, etc.). Solid components are high grade NaCl and MgSO4 (not sure if this gives an ok sulfate level though) with other elements mixed into two liquid additions. The water was ready to use in less than 20 min of prepping and there was no negative reaction in the tank post change (20g total). Params were 450 Ca, 9.5dKh, and 1360 Mg.

I think it is really handy to have around for emergencies especially but does take a little focus in prepping to not make errors if it isn't second nature already.


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Unread 03/17/2011, 10:02 PM   #27
acesq
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I use the ESV salt and am not disappointed. Mixes fast and clear and consistently.


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Unread 03/18/2011, 10:03 AM   #28
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I am using IO too,I used to use oceanic but did not work with my reactors,like IO and seems like my corals and livestock have enjoyed the changes. My next step would be trying IO RC just to see if parameters are where they should be especially with Mg,a bit low in IO,only 1260-1290 but everything else is fine.


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Unread 03/18/2011, 09:14 PM   #29
Ralph ATL
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lol...I've used IO, Cora-life, Nutra-water stuff, Tropic Marine Pro for years, Seachem Reef for years, and I was going to switch to Salinity (big seller here in the ATL), but at 90 bucks a pop.....I think I'm just going to take Randies advice (go figure, like 400 times now!) and switch to IO! I supplement BRS 2 part plus mag on occasion. I of course, have an ULNS going on 6 years of carbon dosing.......IO it is! Thanks!


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Unread 03/18/2011, 11:17 PM   #30
midtownman
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i love the esv salt it mix fast in the params is right on the money


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Unread 03/19/2011, 05:49 AM   #31
TankZombie
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I use red sea pro I like it.


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Unread 03/19/2011, 05:54 AM   #32
watsonj
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I have been running Tunze reef excel for 4 months seems good, I mean no problems but I have never had any problems with IO,tropic marine ext either.


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Unread 03/19/2011, 07:35 AM   #33
HighlandReefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocking View Post
what is the best salt out there for a reef tank with good trace minerals ?
It doesn't exist unless you can find pristine Ocean water and then you take chances with unwanted microbes from the NSW. You're not going to find pristine NSW near shore either, like many use.

That said, Instant Ocean is the best option available IMHO.

All your synthetic salt mixes have too high a levels of many trace elements (trace minerals) like copper & other heavy metals. FIWIW, copper levels as high as 10 parts per billion cause problems for some coral & other oranisms found in reef tanks. At higher levels copper becomes deadly. I wonder why the manufacturers never supply these levels or discuss the heavy metal levels in their salt mixes.

As far as the organics supplied in some salt mixes, they are not needed. You supply plenty in the foods we add. Unless these added orgnics help to reduce heavy metal toxicity before adding the salt mix to the tank?

My advice is to take the recommendations from Randy (a PH.D. Chemist who specializes in reef tanks) who understands all the intricacies of salt mixes which can't be detailed in posts in this forum, like dissolved organic loads, heavy metals, micro-nutrients, vitamins, supersaturation of salt mixes......etc.


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Last edited by HighlandReefer; 03/19/2011 at 08:03 AM.
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Unread 03/19/2011, 07:47 AM   #34
pmrossetti
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Randy's the man. RC user, but back to IO I go! Thanks!!!


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Unread 03/19/2011, 02:58 PM   #35
liquidplumber
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I've been using the aquavitra salinity and it does mix the amount of water as advertised on the bucket but thinking about switching salts.

What does the high levels of Borate actually do to the corals?


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Unread 03/19/2011, 03:30 PM   #36
HighlandReefer
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Randy provides details in this article:

Boron in a Reef Tank (and its effect on pH buffering)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/12/chemistry


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Unread 03/20/2011, 06:16 AM   #37
Randy Holmes-Farley
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FWIW, I do not know if the levels of borate currently in Seachem do anything bad. They used to have it far higher. Still, I see no reason to have in above natural levels.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 07:03 AM   #38
ccLansman
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best salt is the one you can afford.

i use reef crystals.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 09:24 AM   #39
tmz
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My criteria for best salt: Reasonable price; easy to get locally;track record of reliability/ no bad batches; calcium, magnesium and alk levels suited to the overall plan for the aquarium; minimal nonsensical science in marketing.

FWIW, I've been using Coralife for over 8 years and it works well for me.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 02:11 PM   #40
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Just to throw fuel on the fire. How much does salt mix really matter? We monitor our parameters, once you get past the FOWLR stage most people dose, use kalk water, and basically play chemist as they add things that testing has shown to be lacking. Each tank has a different bioload. A different mix of corals, inverts, etc. So in the end we have to ajust out water for what we are doing. Attempting to tailor one salt mix for one tank is impossible, all tanks have slightly different requirments. As i see it, all mixtures can be successful, but what make them work is how we tailor the mix for our tanks. Some mixtures may be closer to what out tanks needs, but may be completely off for a different tank with a different mix of stuff. Thus we must remeber we use what works for us, and can't assume it works in all cases. I doubt there is a best.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 06:19 PM   #41
Grunion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman55 View Post
I mix Oceanic 50/50 with Instant Ocean. Oceanic has high calcium and trace elements, but the IO kind of balance the final saltwater mix. This mix is quite common in my area.
I second this. Also it is cheap so I can do lots of water changes.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 07:43 PM   #42
Yogre
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A little OT question for Randy:

Do you still supplement Ca and Mg in your Instant Ocean before you do your water change?

I seem to remember you doing this with the old IO formula,and I've been doing this to my IO mix since I got numbers for Mg on fresh-mixed IO that were nowhere near what Billybeau1 got in his testing.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 10:56 PM   #43
stanlalee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamf25 View Post
Just to throw fuel on the fire. How much does salt mix really matter? .
Well I've been keeping saltwater tanks since 95' and reefs since 05' and have yet to see/note ANY subjective improvements/decline in livestock with different salts. Some have high calcium, some low, same with alk, same with mg ect ect. I understand high/low calcium/alk may be beneficial in certain circumstances (initial fill, new reef, softy tank or any reef with low ca/alk uptake that relies on water changes to maintain ca/alk. not mine @ 2yr+ reef with 5 gallon water changes, 30g/10g sump, every two weeks. the difference between 500ppm and 350ppm calcium salt ect is of no consequence or importance. not a high enough percentage of water being changed to matter and I believe for 90% of people with established reefs the same thing applies which is why for the life of me I cant understand why people go ape sh*t over new salts or changing salts. I have switched from seachem reef (ca 580ppm/alk 6dKH) back and forth with IO (ca 400ppm/alk 12dKH) 3 or 4 times and for typical size water changes the tank and overall parameters could care less.
and I'm too care free to worry about vitamins fueling bacteria, effects of excessive borates and whatever else may be less than good in a particular mix. at this point I'm comfortable assuming they are all "safe enough" having not exceeded a reasonable shelf life (in which case I wouldn't want to use ANY brand). I'm keeping a reef tank not raising my first born in it. If a clown fish lives 18yrs instead of 20 due to salt choice hope the good lord forgives us.


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Unread 03/20/2011, 11:52 PM   #44
tmz
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I have not switched salt mix in the 8 + yrs my tanks have been running. I do keep calcium, mag and alk constant and consider that important,particularly alkalinity .Since I do frequent water changes keeping the salt constant makes it easier to manage supplemental dosing. Occasionally testing newly mixed saltwater helps too.

I consider it an obligation to provide the best care of which I am capable to the animals I keep. However, I doubt a fish would loose 10% of it's life or a reef tank will be more or less vibrant due to a choice of salt mix.


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Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
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Unread 03/21/2011, 04:55 AM   #45
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Do you still supplement Ca and Mg in your Instant Ocean before you do your water change?

Yes, although it is less or perhaps not needed like it was before. I still do not measure anything in it and add the same amounts, roughly, so it is probably just higher in Ca and Mg than before. I do not think levels of either are critical as long as they are not too low.


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Unread 03/21/2011, 06:19 AM   #46
Yogre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley View Post
Do you still supplement Ca and Mg in your Instant Ocean before you do your water change?

Yes, although it is less or perhaps not needed like it was before. I still do not measure anything in it and add the same amounts, roughly, so it is probably just higher in Ca and Mg than before. I do not think levels of either are critical as long as they are not too low.
Thanks, Randy.

I've been doing the same for a while now. The couple of batches of IO that I did test recently came out with Mg at about 1200ppm, lower than I target in my reef, so a little supplementation makes sense to me. Even with a little supplementation, IO is pretty reasonably priced.

For me, reasonable price=better able to keep up a regular water change routine.


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Unread 03/21/2011, 11:16 AM   #47
progman2000
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Reef Crystals here


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Unread 03/30/2011, 01:18 AM   #48
Ralph ATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley View Post
Do you still supplement Ca and Mg in your Instant Ocean before you do your water change?

Yes, although it is less or perhaps not needed like it was before. I still do not measure anything in it and add the same amounts, roughly, so it is probably just higher in Ca and Mg than before. I do not think levels of either are critical as long as they are not too low.

I've done most of them, the longest being Tropic Marine Pro & Seachem Reef.
Randy, I am switching to IO, but I have a high usage on Calcium & Alk due to SPS, etc.

can you give me a starting point on how to dose calcium & mag to saltwater?

I use 2 part Bulk Reefsupply Soda Ash, Mag Chloride & Sulfide mix, and Calcium Chloride. This is dosed 6 times daily.

So I usually mix 40 gallons of saltwater at 35. Now, if I add Calcium Chloride, me thinks that my salinity will go above 35? So do I make the saltwater mix at 34? Then add some to 35? How much Calcium Chloride & Mag (in liquid form of course) would I need to add to make 40 gallons to raise Calcium & Mag to resonable numbers for Stony Corals? Am I complicating this too much?

Thanks so much!
Ralph


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Unread 03/30/2011, 08:11 AM   #49
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I have used IO and Tropic Marin without any issue. Tropic Marin also comes in a 100lb sack that can save some money.

Differences I have seen between IO and Tropic Marin are TM has lack of dirty film in mix tank. I cleaned this carbonate dirt film out yearly or more when using IO. I usually let salt water tank mix for several days and always keep filled for emergency use. I get a slight green film with TM indicating little nutrients from make up tank getting natural sun. That could be RO too but it is well maintained.

Lately some batch complaints of TM were indicated but I am a bit suspicious of claims. Salt was harder but then granular again.


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Unread 03/30/2011, 10:58 AM   #50
ChucksReefs
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I've been using Instant Ocean for ever 15 yrs. There may be better, but it has always treated tank inhabitants well. Call me a old coot.... I like staying with something that works for me


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