Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 10/05/2015, 06:09 AM   #301
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,419
That's sorta my feeling too. While I realize that just about everything tremendously useful is also dangerous, I am a little freaked out with the idea of a reflection making its way out a window or a kid running through the room or maybe the safety glasses were not quite correctly matched with the wavelength.

I thought about making a cardboard enclosure and just decided it's too much hassle and too much risk for the payback.

Lasers concern me more than a gun does.


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/05/2015, 07:06 AM   #302
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by salty joe View Post
That's sorta my feeling too. While I realize that just about everything tremendously useful is also dangerous, I am a little freaked out with the idea of a reflection making its way out a window or a kid running through the room or maybe the safety glasses were not quite correctly matched with the wavelength.

I thought about making a cardboard enclosure and just decided it's too much hassle and too much risk for the payback.

Lasers concern me more than a gun does.
I get it. Keeping muratic acid in the house is dangerous too, as is saltwater and electricity in close proximity.

I wouldn't use it except at night with everyone asleep and with goggles on. It's like surgery.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/05/2015, 07:07 AM   #303
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbitrage View Post
I killed bristle worms with mine so it will probably work for nudis.
Be careful though, seriously. The laser can reflect off of the glass inside the tank and kill or blind sleeping fish without you realizing it's even happening. Always be aware of what is behind what you are aiming at and always try to aim straight into the tank, not in at an angle. This will help keep the laser light from bouncing too much.
How difficult was it to kill the worms with it? What power level/color?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/12/2015, 12:51 AM   #304
Whiterabbitrage
Registered Member
 
Whiterabbitrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,338
Blog Entries: 1
This was a year or two ago, so I don't remember the deets for the laser. I don't use it anymore, now that I fully realize what a horrific danger it is. The light was blue, and to kill the worm you had to get it cornered first, or it got away. They are amazingly fast. I posted details at the time on this thread. This thread was what gave me the idea to try a laser in the first place. Afterward, I voiced my new anti laser policy. I might have posted a YouTube video of me frying a Bristleworm. They used to sizzle and sounded like bacon frying. Must have tasted yummy, cause my Pistol Shrimp would come arunnin' and snatch then away as fast as I could fry them. The worms would be stiff and crispy and the Pistol would grab them and race away to stash them somewhere. He once stashed six in ten minutes. Sometimes he would eat them in front of me but usually he stashed them.
As to how long it took to kill the worm, it depends on the size of the worm and how much fight it puts up. A clean shot on a worm under three inches would take less than thirty seconds.


__________________
~Morgan

Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium
Whiterabbitrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/12/2015, 08:06 AM   #305
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Thanks. Nudis are much smaller~ 1-3mm and slow moving.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/18/2015, 08:28 AM   #306
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Ok. So let's say I have a blue 10W laser and I'm wearing an arc welding helmet and noone else is in the house. The tank is dark (night) and the nudis are out. I can barely see anything through the shield.

How do I target these 3mm bugs through the front glass?
Do I use a flashlight to highlight them first?
Is there any risk of localized heating of the 3/4" glass?
Oh... is there a danger of blinding my fish or other tank residents? Solutions?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/18/2015, 08:37 AM   #307
Av8bluewater
Registered Member
 
Av8bluewater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontheway View Post
You have a gun with bullets tend to skim in an uncontrolled way. Do you really want to use it? Then use it under controlled conditions, kill whatever you want in a seperate place, preferably in a non-reflective container. You people are testing and using such a dangerous weapon in urban areas (the aquarium). Do not want to read another story about how it killed or wounded other innocent animals, or even worse... For me, this is a gun. Not a tool. A gun without even minimal safety features, like stopping working at positive angles (pointed upwards) etc..
Just my two cents..
True it's not the safest thing in the world but I think comparing it to a gun is quite an exaggeration. It is however very dangerous so you're right. I and my others understand the dangers and use the proper precautions. I think most people won't .. having tried this route though the main thing is the laser simply won't work for almost all of the intended aquarium purposes.
Don't waste you're money people. I bought a 3W and it was a waste of $250 bux.
It will kill things but the effort is in vain.


__________________
225 gallon SPS dominant. Reef octopus dual cx reactor w/ AP regulator . Vertex alpha 250,Apex, ATI 8X80w BML XB Super actinic strip , Aqualund bio pellet RX, 3 MP40s.

Current Tank Info: 230 Rimless.
Av8bluewater is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/18/2015, 09:05 AM   #308
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
can I get some input on how to use it... not whether to use it?

See my post above.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/18/2015, 11:59 PM   #309
Whiterabbitrage
Registered Member
 
Whiterabbitrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,338
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Ok. So let's say I have a blue 10W laser and I'm wearing an arc welding helmet and noone else is in the house. The tank is dark (night) and the nudis are out. I can barely see anything through the shield.

How do I target these 3mm bugs through the front glass?
Do I use a flashlight to highlight them first?
Is there any risk of localized heating of the 3/4" glass?
Oh... is there a danger of blinding my fish or other tank residents? Solutions?
I used laser safety glasses so I can't say about the arc welding helmet. Yes, it was tough to see. I used a red flashlight to find things, then put on my safety glasses, then start Lasing. Once the laser fires up you will probably see just fine.

Yes, be sure no one is in the house, or close the doors after telling people you are Lasing. Also be aware of any windows in the fish room, as it is possible for the beam to reflect inside the tank and bounce out the window. So be sure there is no chance anyone will walk by.

3mm is not going to be a problem. The laser should focus to a fine beam. Yes, shoot them through the glass. No the glass will not heat up as long as it is clear.

Is there a chance or burning, killing or blinding your fish? Yes, absolutely. The most vulnerable will be the ones you don't know where they sleep, and the ones sleeping in bolt holes in the rocks.

Like someone else said, this will fry some of your pests but you will never get them all. Won't a Wrasse eat your nudis?


__________________
~Morgan

Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium
Whiterabbitrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/19/2015, 06:45 AM   #310
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Thanks.

No. Wrasses only hunt by day and these pests only come out to feed at night. The coral is attached to the rockwork and the pests are inaccessible from the top. They tease me by walking all over the side and under the coral but I can't touch them.

I have a melanarus, six line and yellow wrasses. I also have 50 emerald crabs, 50 peppermint shrimps, a coral banded, two cleaner shrimp, a couple of trapezia pocillopora crabs and even xanthids... The nudis are still alive. If this doesn't work, I'm going to rip up the coral and throw it in the trash and then cover the entire region with kalk mud to burn of anything in, on, or around the region.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

Last edited by karimwassef; 10/19/2015 at 06:55 AM.
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/25/2015, 03:56 PM   #311
Lavoisier
Premium Member
 
Lavoisier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 1,030
Karim, I successfully used a laser (1200mw; wave lenght 450nm; uses 2 3.6v batteries) for apistasia in my 90g but it proved ineffectual in my 600g because of the distance between glass and the apistasia. With your larger tank a laser may or may not be powerful enough to kill the worms. I'm not sure how the laser you are considering compare to what I purchased. The use of goggles and making sure no one else is in the room provides the level of safety you need. The issue may be the strength of the laser itself.


__________________
"...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus.

Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s
Lavoisier is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/25/2015, 04:07 PM   #312
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
It says <10000mW on it. When focused, it'll create a near immediate hole in cardboard.

But the water is a superior conductor of heat to air... And absorber of energy.

We'll see. I can't use it still. I was so paranoid of the danger that I opted for welder's goggles instead of laser glasses. I can't see anything except the beam and dot. The 1mm white pests are invisible.

I did use it on an encroaching rhodactis that was killing my acropora and it moved away pretty fast. There was a massive 4" fireworm 1/4" thick too and it retracted instantly when the beam hit it.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/26/2015, 04:28 PM   #313
Whiterabbitrage
Registered Member
 
Whiterabbitrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,338
Blog Entries: 1
Sounds like you need to get laser goggles. If your laser is blue, get the Orange goggles. Then you can probably see the nudis. Do you have a moonlight on your system? Maybe that would help you see the buggers too.

As for worms, yes they retract very fast. If you are trying to kill them, wait till they are out all the way. I used to use bait. Them fry them in the butt. They will move away from the laser but shooting them in the but stops them from retracting into the Rock. Then as they run for cover give 'em a shot in the head. You can focus on frying the head if they stopped moving. If they try to go backwards to hide zap them in the butt again. Hope you fry that fireworm!


__________________
~Morgan

Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium
Whiterabbitrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/26/2015, 07:20 PM   #314
Fiziksgeek
Registered Member
 
Fiziksgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxford, CT
Posts: 1,565
I've been tankless for a few years now, but visit the forum from time to time in an attempt to keep up to dat elf equipment and methods with hopes of starting up a new system one day. I don't know how I missed this thread.

I am a physicist by education and engineer by trade. I have several years of designing and building military and industrial lasers and light sources ranging from 13nm to over 11um in wavelength, and power ranging from milliwatt to kilowatts.

Yes, kilowatts.

I have served as the laser safety officer for a multi-billion dollar company, and currently work on the development of some of the worlds most advanced optical systems.

I am quite confident that no one here is qualified to operate the types of lasers being used, and significantly underestimate the danger they are putting themselves and their loved ones in.

If no one has been injured by this point, it is by pure luck.

Please stop. You don't know what you don't know, and you're not going to learn it here!


Fiziksgeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/26/2015, 08:54 PM   #315
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Fiziks- the first several pages of this post echo your warning and it's true. We're not using class four lasers though, and using these laser pens with safety controls.

There's a danger in operating saltwater with AC devices, but we do it with safety controls.

I'm all for safer ways to use technology, but there are some circumstances that are severe enough to require extreme intervention. In my case, the alternative is tearing my tank down completely after spending the equivalent of a luxury car on it.

Is my eyesight not worth more? Absolutely! It's infinitely more valuable. But I'm not choosing between eyesight or tank. I'm choosing to use safety controls to use the laser in my tank vs break it all down.

Again- fully support your assertion of the very real risk here.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/26/2015, 08:58 PM   #316
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
Fiziks- with your background, I'd like to invite you to look at me thread in DIY

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2535218

I am always open for more expert input.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/02/2015, 08:31 PM   #317
Fiziksgeek
Registered Member
 
Fiziksgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxford, CT
Posts: 1,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Fiziks- the first several pages of this post echo your warning and it's true. We're not using class four lasers though, and using these laser pens with safety controls.

There's a danger in operating saltwater with AC devices, but we do it with safety controls.

I'm all for safer ways to use technology, but there are some circumstances that are severe enough to require extreme intervention. In my case, the alternative is tearing my tank down completely after spending the equivalent of a luxury car on it.

Is my eyesight not worth more? Absolutely! It's infinitely more valuable. But I'm not choosing between eyesight or tank. I'm choosing to use safety controls to use the laser in my tank vs break it all down.

Again- fully support your assertion of the very real risk here.
I have 2 comments, which help make my point about the lack of knowledge and experience in this thread.

1. Class 3b lasers also dangerous to the eye and require the use of proper PPE, not just class 4.

2. Some of the laser mentioned in this thread are absolutely class 4 devices.


Fiziksgeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aiptasia, algae, laser, pests, xenia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pest id! Helpppp!! fishyman12 New to the Hobby 6 07/14/2011 01:46 PM
brown algae on some of my corals jenreef Reef Discussion 2 01/13/2011 02:12 PM
Various Macro Algae - Good, Bad, or 'oh no!'? inktomi Marine Plants & Macroalgae 3 12/12/2009 06:14 PM
WTB Clean pest and pest algae free LR chevegan Southern California Reefers 5 06/02/2008 06:46 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.