DIY Aquarium & Habitat Design & Layout Software INPUT WANTED

udoobu · 08/05/2013, 03:13 PM

Hi, all! I am taking on a person project of developing a 3D design and layout software for aquariums and other related habitats that fit in a glass enclosure. I realize that there has been a demand for something of quality in this realm for years now. I am making this a personal project of mine. I will be the primary designer and creator, but I will be looking to the community for ideas and features - because you all know it best.

Details for the software:

Tech: An open-source 3D engine.

Platforms: Windows & Mac desktop software, hosted in-browser version, also future Android release if possible.

Description: This 3D design and layout software allows enthusiasts and professionals to construct, design, layout, and light aquarium and similar habitats that contain foliage, water, rocks, wood, etc.

Some planned features:

Browse an ever-growing catalog of 3D assets
Choose the base size of your habitat
Place, resize, and reskin 3D models of foliage, rocks, water, wood, etc
Import custom 3D models
Add lighting, choose attributes such as color, direction, and intensity
Create and View your habitat in 3D space: rotate, zoom, auto-tour, etc
Capture video and screenshots of any angle
Generate a materials list of every asset you used.
Add fish (Planned, but this is a whole thing in itself.)
AND MUCH MORE!!!

So... I need your help community!!!

I will not be selling this software. It will be free, however, as an independent I will most likely have an avenue for accepting donations. Also, I will have to outsource a lot of the 3D modeling of assets that I can't do myself.

STEP ONE: Reply to this thread or send me a DM stating your interest. You don't need to give details, just that you would like to be included on the planning committee. Also, feel free to discuss features at your convenience, but not necessary at this time.

Thank you!
Cory

79chopperdr · 08/05/2013, 03:18 PM

Neat idea, following along.

asid61 · 08/05/2013, 03:19 PM

This seems very cool. However, it is a very large project that I feel would work better with people who can help you code.

What would be the purpose of this? Would it help determine stocking, or what nonmotile livestock to choose?

msderganc · 08/05/2013, 03:24 PM

Awesome idea!

udoobu · 08/05/2013, 03:29 PM

Thanks, guys!

@asid61 The main purpose of this software is to allow enthusiasts the ability to design habitats virtually for the sake of planning for a DIY build or simply sharing design ideas. All of the models and graphics will have photo-realistic textures and lighting.

From my perspective, this isn't actually a very difficult software to build. I already have the 3D engine I'm using AND I already know how to use it. At the basis, all I am doing is importing models and placing them on a plane. It's the rendering and features that will be the meat of the software.

One of the biggest undertakings for this, imo, will be the 3D models. Which there are plenty available already that I can use for demo or alpha.

udoobu · 08/05/2013, 03:33 PM

OH! I will be putting together a "tech demo" that I will link here sometime in the next few days. Just to give a small view of what the lighting and rendering looks like.

asid61 · 08/05/2013, 03:49 PM

Great then! I can't wait to see what this could be.
I will really be using this if it comes out, as I often think up all sorts of ideas for unique aquariums.

mallard · 08/06/2013, 09:04 PM

Subscribed!

feersomen · 08/06/2013, 09:42 PM

Google sketch up has some great renderings and aquarium layouts. Hope you can expand on it

houstonhobby · 08/06/2013, 09:57 PM

Should be JavaScript (probably ExtJS/Sencha) but do 3d drawing using webgl. I'm chief architect for two different software vendors (at the same time) and that is what I would tell them.

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 09:09 AM

@mallard Thank you!

@feersomen Yeah, I have seen some and they are definitely a good reference point.

@houstonhobby Thank you for the suggestion. I'm going a little more powerful on the tech though. I'm using a Java based 3D framework that I have experience with. The purpose of the software isn't for diagramming necessarily, but more aesthetic design and layout. Envision being able to place objects in 3D space from a catalog of decorations. Or, setup rock formations based on predetermined rock shapes. Interesting that you mention ExtJS - I once used it to build a UI with dashboards, etc for a State agency.

Jeff000 · 08/07/2013, 04:42 PM

I think this is an ambitious project, and if you're doing it for a hobby school project type thing all the power to you.

But if you are looking to make any kind of money on this I would save your time.

Decorations in salt water aren't really used. Maybe this software would be of more use for fresh water?
And as much as you'll be able to make custom sized live rock it really won't help. Unless you can figure out how to import pictures of the actual rock someone buys and 3d model them and figure out how those rocks will stack the most stable to fill a more basic geometric template.

As others have said the actual tank and plumbing side has much more use. But at this point it would be easy to just develop a few aquarium specific models for Google sketch up. As they already have most any plumbing parts you could think of.

KusabiKuri · 08/07/2013, 05:29 PM

Definitely will keep up with this and offer any input I can.

I tried Sketch up and while it's actually pretty awesome, I find that the accuracy of tank layouts is pretty much up to whoever contributed a model. I found an awesome-looking 20L model that I started to work with for a sump and as soon as I made my first baffle I realized that the glass width on the model was not accurate.

I think a 3D CAD program targeting the aquarium community would hold worlds of value if it could easily produce accurate representations of tanks and hardware. A cherry on top would be to offer calculations like water volume, sand, actual flow rates, etc. Hell a software of that caliber could potentially automatically flag issues like the need to brace thinner glass or having not enough siphon to keep up with return flow. I imagine it to be likened to a software compiler. When you have all the pieces in place you run a simulation and it returns errors or weaknesses in the design.

Jeff000 · 08/07/2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KusabiKuri

Definitely will keep up with this and offer any input I can.

I tried Sketch up and while it's actually pretty awesome, I find that the accuracy of tank layouts is pretty much up to whoever contributed a model. I found an awesome-looking 20L model that I started to work with for a sump and as soon as I made my first baffle I realized that the glass width on the model was not accurate.

I think a 3D CAD program targeting the aquarium community would hold worlds of value if it could easily produce accurate representations of tanks and hardware. A cherry on top would be to offer calculations like water volume, sand, actual flow rates, etc. Hell a software of that caliber could potentially automatically flag issues like the need to brace thinner glass or having not enough siphon to keep up with return flow. I imagine it to be likened to a software compiler. When you have all the pieces in place you run a simulation and it returns errors or weaknesses in the design.

The problem isn't that the model was bad, it's that the model was not for your tank.

It's really easy to make a tank in sketch up. There is no way his software would be any more accurate. You'll always have to measure your tank and compare to the model.

An engineering level program is out there, but they are very expensive for a reason.

KusabiKuri · 08/07/2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff000

The problem isn't that the model was bad, it's that the model was not for your tank.

It's really easy to make a tank in sketch up. There is no way his software would be any more accurate. You'll always have to measure your tank and compare to the model.

An engineering level program is out there, but they are very expensive for a reason.

The aim of that particular object package was to have the exact tank as mine but I think it was made more for interior design and not tank design.

But I think if the guy can make a software package happen that works as well as something like sketch up but has some unique aquarium-centric design tools, then it's not really a waste of his time and I can't imagine it not gain widespread use in the hobby. If even as a way to sharpen engineering skill it has a great deal of value.

Jeff000 · 08/07/2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KusabiKuri

The aim of that particular object package was to have the exact tank as mine but I think it was made more for interior design and not tank design.

But I think if the guy can make a software package happen that works as well as something like sketch up but has some unique aquarium-centric design tools, then it's not really a waste of his time and I can't imagine it not gain widespread use in the hobby. If even as a way to sharpen engineering skill it has a great deal of value.

I agree it's a hobby or learning level the program will be great. But it'll never make money.

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 06:42 PM

@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Thanks a lot for the input guys. I'm reading back through now and responding.

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 06:45 PM

@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Also, what particular pumps / filters / etc are you using now? You don't have to go into much detail, just maybe just make and model of a couple things?

Jeff000 · 08/07/2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udoobu

@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Also, what particular pumps / filters / etc are you using now? You don't have to go into much detail, just maybe just make and model of a couple things?

You're a fresh water guy eh?

Not many filters used really. But for pumps a good start would be reeflo pumps. But there are literally 1000s. Go have a look through some of the build threads on here.

KusabiKuri · 08/07/2013, 08:22 PM

Yeah not many filters which is why it's important to be able to design your sump

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 08:43 PM

@KusabiKuri @Jeff000

Howdy! Ok, so when I originally set out on this journey I was envisioning creating a software that would allow you to design / decorate aquariums of various sizes and water types. The intention is to have users design an aquascape using realistic objects and materials... and then set out to create that in the real world if they so choose. Jeff, I understand what you were saying about the difficulty of someone designing based on objects that they already have, but my intention was the opposite. However, a feature I was planning to use for rock/wood formations would almost allow you to roughly recreate a piece that you already owned. Anyway, that was my vision when I came into this...

So, now that I've gotten some much needed feedback from you all I'm definitely seeing a push toward a need for the sump design more than anything. I am most definitely not in this to make a retail profit. Indeed, I am an aquatics noobie. My father is what I'll call an "amateur freshwater expert". Haha! So, I get a lot of my inspiration from him. Currently, he has a 125 and 150 gal freshwater tanks setup. Anyyyyway... I, myself, am a 31yo, married, father of a 4 month old baby girl. My career is in web and software ui design and scripting. I am a 3D graphics hobbyist. I have been looking for a personal 3D project with some substance and I saw an opportunity here... so, here I am!

How can I help?

To be continued...

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff000

As others have said the actual tank and plumbing side has much more use. But at this point it would be easy to just develop a few aquarium specific models for Google sketch up. As they already have most any plumbing parts you could think of.

To this point... I definitely see the potential of building a community moderated library of parts already available on the net, i.e. Google's library and other places. If there was a community in place maybe there would be a spike in motivation to do more and also improve upon what's available. Wouldn't have to replace any library that's currently out there - just tap into it. I am also reaching out to some contacts in the industry to see what models manufacturers have available for non-profit or community use. Worth a shot!

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KusabiKuri

Yeah not many filters which is why it's important to be able to design your sump

I hear ya... I was originally considering supporting both fresh and salt water. But, I'm feeling it will be necessary to choose one... such as salt.

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff000

I agree it's a hobby or learning level the program will be great. But it'll never make money.

That is a good point... could I make something that is comparable to Sketchup that has aquarium-centric features? That brings up the question of what does Sketchup not offer that is needed by the community? I know one of them is an abundance of accurate models. Hehe...

udoobu · 08/07/2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff000

The problem isn't that the model was bad, it's that the model was not for your tank.

It's really easy to make a tank in sketch up. There is no way his software would be any more accurate. You'll always have to measure your tank and compare to the model.

An engineering level program is out there, but they are very expensive for a reason.

Is there a way to take the catalog of sump system parts and generalize them into basic-featured objects for the sake of not having to recreate every aquarium part until the end of time? I realize some situations are mildy to severely custom, but maybe part of growing this software is assimilating those situations and expanding the features.

08/05/2013, 03:13 PM	#1
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	DIY Aquarium & Habitat Design & Layout Software INPUT WANTED Hi, all! I am taking on a person project of developing a 3D design and layout software for aquariums and other related habitats that fit in a glass enclosure. I realize that there has been a demand for something of quality in this realm for years now. I am making this a personal project of mine. I will be the primary designer and creator, but I will be looking to the community for ideas and features - because you all know it best. Details for the software: Tech: An open-source 3D engine. Platforms: Windows & Mac desktop software, hosted in-browser version, also future Android release if possible. Description: This 3D design and layout software allows enthusiasts and professionals to construct, design, layout, and light aquarium and similar habitats that contain foliage, water, rocks, wood, etc. Some planned features: Browse an ever-growing catalog of 3D assets Choose the base size of your habitat Place, resize, and reskin 3D models of foliage, rocks, water, wood, etc Import custom 3D models Add lighting, choose attributes such as color, direction, and intensity Create and View your habitat in 3D space: rotate, zoom, auto-tour, etc Capture video and screenshots of any angle Generate a materials list of every asset you used. Add fish (Planned, but this is a whole thing in itself.) AND MUCH MORE!!! So... I need your help community!!! I will not be selling this software. It will be free, however, as an independent I will most likely have an avenue for accepting donations. Also, I will have to outsource a lot of the 3D modeling of assets that I can't do myself. STEP ONE: Reply to this thread or send me a DM stating your interest. You don't need to give details, just that you would like to be included on the planning committee. Also, feel free to discuss features at your convenience, but not necessary at this time. Thank you! Cory

08/05/2013, 03:24 PM	#4
msderganc Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 672	Awesome idea! __________________ - Matt Current Tank Info: 75g SPS ReefSavvy in the Works (prior: 260g SPS heavy system, 70g prop system, 29g Biocube)

08/06/2013, 09:57 PM	#10
houstonhobby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 175	Should be JavaScript (probably ExtJS/Sencha) but do 3d drawing using webgl. I'm chief architect for two different software vendors (at the same time) and that is what I would tell them. __________________ 210 gallon wanna-be reef, 125 gallon sump. Bubble-Magus NAC-77.

08/05/2013, 03:18 PM	#2
79chopperdr I killed ALL that Coral! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Antelope, CA Posts: 1,509	Neat idea, following along.

08/05/2013, 03:19 PM	#3
asid61 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 1,111	This seems very cool. However, it is a very large project that I feel would work better with people who can help you code. What would be the purpose of this? Would it help determine stocking, or what nonmotile livestock to choose?

08/05/2013, 03:29 PM	#5
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	Thanks, guys! @asid61 The main purpose of this software is to allow enthusiasts the ability to design habitats virtually for the sake of planning for a DIY build or simply sharing design ideas. All of the models and graphics will have photo-realistic textures and lighting. From my perspective, this isn't actually a very difficult software to build. I already have the 3D engine I'm using AND I already know how to use it. At the basis, all I am doing is importing models and placing them on a plane. It's the rendering and features that will be the meat of the software. One of the biggest undertakings for this, imo, will be the 3D models. Which there are plenty available already that I can use for demo or alpha.

08/05/2013, 03:33 PM	#6
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	OH! I will be putting together a "tech demo" that I will link here sometime in the next few days. Just to give a small view of what the lighting and rendering looks like.

08/05/2013, 03:49 PM	#7
asid61 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 1,111	Great then! I can't wait to see what this could be. I will really be using this if it comes out, as I often think up all sorts of ideas for unique aquariums.

08/06/2013, 09:04 PM	#8
mallard Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 87	Subscribed!

08/06/2013, 09:42 PM	#9
feersomen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 60	Google sketch up has some great renderings and aquarium layouts. Hope you can expand on it

08/07/2013, 09:09 AM	#11
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	@mallard Thank you! @feersomen Yeah, I have seen some and they are definitely a good reference point. @houstonhobby Thank you for the suggestion. I'm going a little more powerful on the tech though. I'm using a Java based 3D framework that I have experience with. The purpose of the software isn't for diagramming necessarily, but more aesthetic design and layout. Envision being able to place objects in 3D space from a catalog of decorations. Or, setup rock formations based on predetermined rock shapes. Interesting that you mention ExtJS - I once used it to build a UI with dashboards, etc for a State agency.

08/07/2013, 04:42 PM	#12
Jeff000 Electrician Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 1,653	I think this is an ambitious project, and if you're doing it for a hobby school project type thing all the power to you. But if you are looking to make any kind of money on this I would save your time. Decorations in salt water aren't really used. Maybe this software would be of more use for fresh water? And as much as you'll be able to make custom sized live rock it really won't help. Unless you can figure out how to import pictures of the actual rock someone buys and 3d model them and figure out how those rocks will stack the most stable to fill a more basic geometric template. As others have said the actual tank and plumbing side has much more use. But at this point it would be easy to just develop a few aquarium specific models for Google sketch up. As they already have most any plumbing parts you could think of.

08/07/2013, 05:29 PM	#13
KusabiKuri Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 105	Definitely will keep up with this and offer any input I can. I tried Sketch up and while it's actually pretty awesome, I find that the accuracy of tank layouts is pretty much up to whoever contributed a model. I found an awesome-looking 20L model that I started to work with for a sump and as soon as I made my first baffle I realized that the glass width on the model was not accurate. I think a 3D CAD program targeting the aquarium community would hold worlds of value if it could easily produce accurate representations of tanks and hardware. A cherry on top would be to offer calculations like water volume, sand, actual flow rates, etc. Hell a software of that caliber could potentially automatically flag issues like the need to brace thinner glass or having not enough siphon to keep up with return flow. I imagine it to be likened to a software compiler. When you have all the pieces in place you run a simulation and it returns errors or weaknesses in the design.

08/07/2013, 06:42 PM	#17
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Thanks a lot for the input guys. I'm reading back through now and responding.

08/07/2013, 06:45 PM	#18
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Also, what particular pumps / filters / etc are you using now? You don't have to go into much detail, just maybe just make and model of a couple things?

08/07/2013, 08:22 PM	#20
KusabiKuri Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 105	Yeah not many filters which is why it's important to be able to design your sump

08/07/2013, 08:43 PM	#21
udoobu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 22	@KusabiKuri @Jeff000 Howdy! Ok, so when I originally set out on this journey I was envisioning creating a software that would allow you to design / decorate aquariums of various sizes and water types. The intention is to have users design an aquascape using realistic objects and materials... and then set out to create that in the real world if they so choose. Jeff, I understand what you were saying about the difficulty of someone designing based on objects that they already have, but my intention was the opposite. However, a feature I was planning to use for rock/wood formations would almost allow you to roughly recreate a piece that you already owned. Anyway, that was my vision when I came into this... So, now that I've gotten some much needed feedback from you all I'm definitely seeing a push toward a need for the sump design more than anything. I am most definitely not in this to make a retail profit. Indeed, I am an aquatics noobie. My father is what I'll call an "amateur freshwater expert". Haha! So, I get a lot of my inspiration from him. Currently, he has a 125 and 150 gal freshwater tanks setup. Anyyyyway... I, myself, am a 31yo, married, father of a 4 month old baby girl. My career is in web and software ui design and scripting. I am a 3D graphics hobbyist. I have been looking for a personal 3D project with some substance and I saw an opportunity here... so, here I am! How can I help? To be continued...