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Unread 04/07/2007, 03:14 PM   #1
reefinmike
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Unhappy perfect water, still killing things?

well, ive had my 125 sps tank up and running for a long while now. it has been thriving and everythings been growing like crazy. for some reason, the past 3 weeks for some reason, i cant keep any new fish or inverts alive for the life of me. to start off, here are my params

ca-400
alk-12dkh
ph-8.3
temp-80.0
salinity-1.025(on a refractometer)

now that i think of it, this problem may have existed a few months before. i had a nice community of inverts in my tank consisting of 100 hermits, 3 turbos, and several astreas. i noticed my hermits slowly dwindled down to about 5 over a months time until i did an interceptor treatment which took care of them. i did only one treatment but i still did the 2 large water changes and carbon. so at that point i had my turbos and the astreas left, around this time, the algae started popping up. then my turbos seemed to dissapear. now were at three weeks before now. then i added 100 hermits, all of which dissapeared within 3 days(no i dont have a mantis) then i added three turbos. the first day they were doing fine, second, they were acting very slow, third day they were still alive but pulled back some in their shell and all three died by day 5. then i added a kole tang which did fine for a few days. he acted kinda skittish and hid but he was looking ok, then he dissapeared. keep in mind this whole time im adding frags of sps and theyre doing perfectly fine....

so thats where i am now. on a couple occasions i did a couple 50g water changes(my total system volume is 175 gal.) and i didnt notice any change


any ideas


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Unread 04/07/2007, 03:15 PM   #2
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ooh yeah, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate are undetectable on an aq pharm test kit. the rest of the things i tested using salifert.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 03:23 PM   #3
corals b 4 bills
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Sounds like copper poisoning.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 03:27 PM   #4
reefinmike
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i thought that but i doubt it could be because all sps, new and old are doing great, and i couldnt see a fairly hardy fish dieing within 3 days because of copper considering if it was copper, the levils would have to be so low it wouldnt affect sps, and also the fact that fish are much more capable of handleing copper than corals.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 03:59 PM   #5
drummereef
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What type of acclimation procedure did you do with the Cole Tang? Do you think it was just starvation that did the first round of hermits in?


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Unread 04/07/2007, 07:04 PM   #6
reefinmike
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i did a 30 minute drip acclimation with the kole as i do with all other fish and corals. the last batch of frags i got were kinda hardy(stylophoras and montiporas) so i only did a 10 minute acclimation and they were fine. the hermits couldnt have starved unless they had a eating disorder as i had plenty of algae for all to enjoy, and just the fact that they all died within3 days.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 08:18 PM   #7
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Is your algae problem dinoflagellates by any chance?

What is the PH right before lights come on? Meter? and if so when was the last calibration?

How do you acclimate new inverts?


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Unread 04/07/2007, 08:31 PM   #8
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it is hair algae. it really made me mad because for the past year, my tank has been literitally perfect... no algae at all.

ph fluctuates .1 between day and night.


inverts get a 30 minute drip acclimation


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Unread 04/07/2007, 08:38 PM   #9
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The first two things I think of when I hear a problem like this are a) electricity and b) have you ever windexed the front of your tank.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 09:07 PM   #10
vessxpress1
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What does windex do? I bought some of that coralife glass polisher a while back and I've been using that. It's supposed to be reef safe. I didn't know windex did anything though.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 09:37 PM   #11
DrBegalke
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I would think the crabs/snails died of starvation. The Kole, not sure, but 30 minute acclimation seems too short to me. I acclimate all my live stock for at least an hour, usually longer.

Windex has ammonia in it, I doubt that's a problem though since the SPS are fine.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 09:39 PM   #12
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Windex has ammonia in it.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 09:41 PM   #13
reefinmike
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electricity came across as a possibility to me. i have a spare ground probe so i guess that wont hurt to hook up. no, i have not used windex. infact, i dont even use water to clean the glass. it seems whenever i get dribbles on the glass if i let it dry and wipe it off, it dosent smudge at all.

vessxpress1-windex contains ammonia.

reasons why i think it cant be electricity is

a) i dont get shocked at all.
b)all my current fish show no signs of stress or lat. line disease.
c)many of my original snails(like 5) are doing fine.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 09:45 PM   #14
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the crabs couldnt have died from starvation. i had plenty of algae and all died within 3 days. crabs can go much longer than 3 days without eating. i have always done 15-30 minute acclimations. typically i float them 15 minutes before i do the drip acclimation which usually is about 30 minutes. also keep in mind the multitudes of turbos i added which all acted fine day one, lethargic day two and day 3 pulled in their shells on the way to death. i think im building quite a shell collection in my back yard.

Quote:
Originally posted by DrBegalke
I would think the crabs/snails died of starvation. The Kole, not sure, but 30 minute acclimation seems too short to me. I acclimate all my live stock for at least an hour, usually longer.

Windex has ammonia in it, I doubt that's a problem though since the SPS are fine.



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Unread 04/07/2007, 10:57 PM   #15
Rhodesholar
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It sounds to me like the water from where you are getting your live stock and yours differ dramtically. Let's just say for discussion sake the LFS has a SG of 1.021 and you are running 1.025, that is a pretty big jump for only 1/2 hour of acclicamation. Also what is there DKH? If your at 12 and them at 8 that is a fair jump. I would consider an SG difference more detrimental then DKH.

Whenever I buy livestock I ask what the water parameters and if they far off from mine, I acclimate longer. Somtimes several hours.

I tried a different LFS once and no matter what I did the stuff died. The LFS I usually do business with I can take the stuff out of the bag and drop in the tank. Never lost a thing from them.

I don't know, just a guess.


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Unread 04/07/2007, 11:02 PM   #16
corals b 4 bills
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Do you have any fish or corals that release toxins into the water? (I know the SPS are fine). Did the fish act skiddish? elect. current sounds plausable. (I know you didn't get shocked).


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Unread 04/08/2007, 08:58 AM   #17
reefinmike
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ill check the salinity at my lfs asap. but really i have been buying from this place for years, a lot of the times just floating fish and throwing them right in and they have been fine for years.


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Unread 04/08/2007, 09:12 AM   #18
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How long are the snails/crabs/fish in the LFS store tanks. Could it be the collection techniques of the distributor, like cynide.


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Unread 04/08/2007, 09:18 AM   #19
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also in your original post you said "he acted kinda skittish and hid but he was looking ok, then he dissapeared". what do you mean by disappeared? did you find the fish or did it really disappear. if it did vanish you may have a growing mantis. it's just a thought.


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Unread 04/08/2007, 09:51 AM   #20
reefinmike
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the snails were there for 3+ weeks and the crabs 1 week. the fish was there for over a month and doing perfect. the fish vanished. i have no signs of a mantis. i have had my rock for over 2 years now, have never heard a mantis clicking, never found broken shells, and have looked at the tank at night with a flashlight many hours and have never seen one.


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