blue ring

[huskerreef]

from what I have read, the blue ring shows off the rings best when stressed or upset and that one of two things will happen..you will die or the blue ring will die. I can understand peoples fascination with deadly creatures its a status symbol like pitbulls. We know the risk but our egos need inflated by telling our friends we have something no one else does. If you want a truly amazing specimen thats rare for a specimen and won't kill you or a family member how about a flambouyant cuddlefish. And of course if have done any research on blue rings through this site you would know that you were going to get nothing positive.

[Opcn]

Flamboyant cuttlefish are hard to find and are infact poisonous. Blue rings are not poisonous, but rather are venomous, an important distinction.

Personally I don't think anyone who isn't going to put some serious effort and study into a breeding atempt should try to keep flamboyant cuttlefish.

[acroboy]

I personaly wouldn't keep a blue ring just to avoid a problem. As far as Octos being agressive, I have caught Vulgaris in the wild under rocks and taken them out of the water in the palm of my hand and never been bitten. Does agressivness change from subspecies to subspecies? I have no idea. But then again I've kept venomus Seagoblins.

[Thales]

Originally posted by Opcn
[B]Flamboyant cuttlefish are hard to find and are infact poisonous.

That case hasn't been closed yet. The only place this has been said so far is a Nova show, there has yet to be a paper found with the conclusions. Not saying it isn't true, but caution is warrented when talking about facts.

Personally I don't think anyone who isn't going to put some serious effort and study into a breeding atempt should try to keep flamboyant cuttlefish.

Absolutely.

[DiverDownBrian]

I lived in sydney for 7 months back in 2003. While I was there, I saw two Blue Rings being held in home tanks ... one looked terrible ... the other looked healthy and had been there for about 6 months

As a side note, here's a pic of one I took while diving at Bare Island

[zoanthid2009]

[i]
dangerous and boring. lol, what's the point? [/B]

what are we talking about women or fish? jkjk

but seriusly it is our duty to inform you of the danger of keeping a blue ring, everyone against keeping blue rings in captivity have their reasons and those who are not against it have their reasons. I know what i am saying will make no im,pact n ur decision but im sure everyne feels the same when we just want you to now how dangerus the animal is.

[justinl]

snap! hahaha i didn't see it that way but looking back... lol we're about to get slapped

[Opcn]

http://www.hibiotech.com/diagprodsales/atetro.htm I found this today, which bums me out because I spent a good three weeks looking for something along the lines of this and couldn't find it until I started looking for an O. Mercatoris. I was preparing to do the same things as a research project, First step towards an antidote is what that is.

[marinequick]

I kept a blue ring for a over a year in a 29 gal. It did fine. If you do get a blue ring give alot to do or it will escape or you can keep in a tank with an Eclipse hood, like I did.

[KhawMengLee]

My local fish supplier just got 4 of them. Two have died but the other two are alive and kicking.

[Echidna09]

Originally posted by KhawMengLee
My local fish supplier just got 4 of them. Two have died but the other two are alive and kicking.

I hope they inform all of their potential buyers of the toxicity of this animal and the care that is needed to keep it alive. Keeping an octopus is different than keeping a fish, as most people know. Some people probably wonder why everyone makes such a big deal out of the blue ring being venomous when poisonous fish like lionfish and rabbitfish are sold almost without warning.

First of all, this animal can KILL a human in a matter of minutes. There is no antidote for the venom and probably the only way you would have a chance to survive a bite from a blue ring octopus is by cutting off all blood flow in or out of the bit area or by amputation. Octopuses are sneaky, tricky, smart animals and if you make one angry by accident while moving stuff around, installing a new pump, or while doing maintenance there is a chance he will sneak up and attack you, blending in with rocks and sand on his way, making you octopus food.

Secondly, octopuses take a great deal of care to maintain and keep alive. Most of them will not ever take dead food and they must be watched closely to make sure they are happy and healthy. Before you get an octopus you need to be prepared to devote several hours a day to your pet in case you need to. Carcasses of shrimp, crabs, and snails usually have to be cleaned up after the octopus feeds. This puts your hand in the tank at least once a day and it gives your octopus another chance to bite you.

Lastly, I believe blue rings should only be kept by scientists in dedicated labs, or by public aquariums that fully know the risks of keeping them. Anyone fish store that carries them should be frowned upon. These beautiful octopuses should be left in the wild, in public aquariums or in the labratory. They are too dangerous for home aquaria and the only way they should be released to be kept as pets is if the venom is taken out of the octopus. Blue rings are wonderful creatures that I could stare at for days but they are not suitable for anyone to keep at home.

*End rant*


On a side note, flamboyant cuttlefish are rare and don't live long. If you find one they will be in the $200s if you are lucky and they will most likely be adults with not long to live. Also I don't believe we know their numbers in the wild, so they are best not collected or requested now or anytime in the near future.

If you are looking for a ceph as a pet, just go with a tank friendly species. Commonly kept octopus species are Bimaculoides, Mercatoris, Joubini, Vulgaris, and Aculeatus. Commonly kept cuttlefish are Bandensis and Officialis (in a large tank only). There may be a couple other cuttles that are kept regularly, but I don't know them; I'm more familier with octopuses.

[KhawMengLee]

Originally posted by Echidna09
I hope they inform all of their potential buyers of the toxicity of this animal and the care that is needed to keep it alive. Keeping an octopus is different than keeping a fish, as most people know. Some people probably wonder why everyone makes such a big deal out of the blue ring being venomous when poisonous fish like lionfish and rabbitfish are sold almost without warning.

First of all, this animal can KILL a human in a matter of minutes. There is no antidote for the venom and probably the only way you would have a chance to survive a bite from a blue ring octopus is by cutting off all blood flow in or out of the bit area or by amputation. Octopuses are sneaky, tricky, smart animals and if you make one angry by accident while moving stuff around, installing a new pump, or while doing maintenance there is a chance he will sneak up and attack you, blending in with rocks and sand on his way, making you octopus food.

Secondly, octopuses take a great deal of care to maintain and keep alive. Most of them will not ever take dead food and they must be watched closely to make sure they are happy and healthy. Before you get an octopus you need to be prepared to devote several hours a day to your pet in case you need to. Carcasses of shrimp, crabs, and snails usually have to be cleaned up after the octopus feeds. This puts your hand in the tank at least once a day and it gives your octopus another chance to bite you.

Lastly, I believe blue rings should only be kept by scientists in dedicated labs, or by public aquariums that fully know the risks of keeping them. Anyone fish store that carries them should be frowned upon. These beautiful octopuses should be left in the wild, in public aquariums or in the labratory. They are too dangerous for home aquaria and the only way they should be released to be kept as pets is if the venom is taken out of the octopus. Blue rings are wonderful creatures that I could stare at for days but they are not suitable for anyone to keep at home.

*End rant*


On a side note, flamboyant cuttlefish are rare and don't live long. If you find one they will be in the $200s if you are lucky and they will most likely be adults with not long to live. Also I don't believe we know their numbers in the wild, so they are best not collected or requested now or anytime in the near future.

If you are looking for a ceph as a pet, just go with a tank friendly species. Commonly kept octopus species are Bimaculoides, Mercatoris, Joubini, Vulgaris, and Aculeatus. Commonly kept cuttlefish are Bandensis and Officialis (in a large tank only). There may be a couple other cuttles that are kept regularly, but I don't know them; I'm more familier with octopuses.

Yeah, when I saw them in the tanks(each kept in an isolation bottle) I was thinking...oh, crap. I grew up in Australia and had heard enough nightmare stories about the little fellas.

I had mentioned how poisonous they were and since they acknowledged the fact didn't want to go further.

This place is interesting though, in that because he is a supplier to overseas markets for live rock and marine life, he does on occasion get the weirdest things come in.

[Opcn]

Seeing as how the first symptom of TTXpoisoning is a slow creeping nubnes from the site by the time any syptoms set in it would be too late to restrict blood flow mechanically or to amputate, which is a bad idea any ways. The truth of the matter is that unless you get a very large dose which can apperently stop your heart all you need in order to survive is a respirator and 24-48 hours to work the toxin out of your system naturally.

[Thales]

How do you guys feel about LFS selling zoa's?

[Opcn]

Zoa's can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid and do one of the big reef no-no's like reaching in to the tank with broken skin or touching your face/mouth/eating with out washing your hands. Paly toxin from zoas is a Ca++ channel blocker and is about 10X as toxic as TTX, Malotoxin is another marine toxin and I think it is about 5X stronger than palytoxin, its also a Ca++ blocker, together these three marine toxins account for the three strongest known non-protenacious toxins to my knowledge.

[Thales]

Originally posted by Opcn
[B]Zoa's can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid and do one of the big reef no-no's like reaching in to the tank with broken skin or touching your face/mouth/eating with out washing your hands.

I think that is kind of unfair, and pretty much the same thing you wrote above can be applied to blue rings 'Blue rings can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid...'

I don't think you and I are really on different pages in regards to blue rings.

Paly toxin is a real danger to hobbyists, and people do get sick from it, in greater percentages than people have been bitten by blue rings, but we don't see anyone calling for LFS to disclosure this information pre sale.

[Thurge]

Originally posted by Thales
How do you guys feel about LFS selling zoa's?

well put.

I think the point he was eluding to is that its pretty funny to read people ranting about BRO's, when there are things in just about EVERYONE's tank that are just as if not more toxic than a Blue Ring Octopus. They are possibly even more dangerous because of their benign nature, where as with a BRO just about anyone who keeps one should be aware of their nature. In all reality I would say there is more of a chance of a child reaching into a tank and plucking one of the pretty colored Zoanthids in the tank because it reminded the child of the colors in popcicles looked "tasty", than one reaching into a tank with a BRO and being bitten.

In short manage your responsibilities, before you worry about managing mine. A polite, Just in case you didn't know, warning is fine, we all want to learn from others and share out knowledge. But when you write paragraphs and repeatedly rant about your beliefs then all you do is turn peope off to your message, and you.

[Opcn]

The Blue ring precautions are species specific, so they constitute a little less ignorance.

Bottom line however, don't be an idiot and you wont have a problem, survival of the fittest any one?

[rabidcrab]

word

[TankFabricator]

Wow, It's been interesting to see how this thread started and how it turned out! Everyone has great imput. On, the other hand, It's amazing how predictable many comments where. Kinda like how you know how the "media" is gonna tell you about the dangers of pitbull's every time a dogfighting ring comes down. You just know that a whole heap of critisizm and plenty of b.s. opinions are about to fly through your ears. I'm 100% all for warning people about the dangers of venomous animals. Please don't take any of this the wrong way. I would however like to point out, that bulldragon post says he has experience with octos and It's seems as though that was disregarded. Also, that he's had experience with venomous reptiles. True there is antivenom for reptiles and not for blue-rings, BUT this is not really a great point considering most venomous snake hobbyist don't carry their own antivenom. In most cases, it's simply too expensive and you need multiple vials to sustain a decent recovery. Some people think that hospitols carry antivenom, and they do, but for native animals. Imagine telling the ambulance, "I was bit by a wagler's temple viper"..... hope you grab an atlas of reptiles on your way to the stretcher! Some hospitals carry "antivenom cocktails", what I'm reffering to are antivenoms that may combat numerous varieties of venom as long as they have the same damaging effect . These are still being experimented with and may be able to treat things other than snakebites as well. Something many people on here may not understand is the husbandry practices of today's HOT reptile keeper. Many people keep their venomous reptiles with NEVER touching them. Im Not talking about using snake sticks, tongs, hooks, etc. What Im talking about is methods of caging. Most venomous reptiles are kept in very special enclosures. These enclosures ensure the animal has NO chance of ever even coming in contact with its owner. The owner can do maintance to the cage, clean, feed, water, etc.. and the animal is not even disturbed!! I would HOPE that anyone who cares for a blue-ring octo would implement all the saftey features used today in venomous herptoculture, plus responsibility and maturity in dealing with all aspects of the husbandry of their specific animal. Oh, and there are plenty of more old-school venomous reptile keepers that enjoy or prefer handling there animals, especially those that work with Elapids(they seem to "tame down"). These people might want to stay away from a blue-ring. Slimy little boogers lol! Sorry for my rant... guess I've just seen the tang police beat the hell out of this web site, and I love it here

[TankFabricator]

Wow i just realized I stink with my words!!
"Everyone has great input. On the other hand...."
Sheesh I sound rude... my sincere apologies if that offended anyone.

[ryan_paskadi]

Most octos have a small amount of toxin in their bite.

Blue rings are cheap. They seem to be one of the cheapest most readily available octos on the market at around $15 US. With that said don’t buy it, don’t own it, just leave it alone. It is not worth it. You cannot convince me that there is any good reason to own one.

Animals are not meant to be show pieces. If you want an octopus because they are amazing animals just get one that cannot kill you.

[Jambi]

I dont see why you couldnt just attempt to keep a blue ring, with a lid on your tank. That basically voids almost any chance of it escaping, and the chances of you getting bitten are very small if you dont put your hand near it. You're taking a bigger risk commuting to work. That is all in my opinion. I'm 16 and I've been researching blue rings alot lately, because my LFS gets them for about 30$ a pop. When i have the $$ to set up another tank Ive considered purchasing one.

[Gonodactylus]

JAMBI

There are many issues that have been hashed over many times to the point that people are getting very bored hearing them. For me the major issue is accessibility. Can you guarantee that someone who does not know or understand the danger will not open the tank and attempt to touch the animal or that one wont crawl out of the tank (believe me it happens. I've kept hundreds of blue-rings in what we thought were secure tanks and several have escaped) and someone will try to pick it up to rescue it. You are 16. Do you have a little brother or sister who might want to show it to your friends? Three or for teens showing off can easly dare one another to touch it when you are out of the room. The scenarios are endless how an envenomation might happen and the one most likely is the one you haven't thought of. Is it really worth the risk to you?

Beyond that, any retailer who knowingly sold a deadly animal to a 16 year old would be in serious legal trouble should an accident happen.

Roy

[Jambi]

I agree with what you're saying but most of that falls under the lines of what everyone else has been saying, and that is "dont do something stupid." Though you are a very experienced person and know more about this area than anyone else on the site, so listening to you would probably be the smart thing to do. I also didnt read every post on this thread only the first few, so sorry if I repeated some things other people had said. Also, if I did buy it, technically I would have been selling it to myself because they have attempted to hire me several times and I'm taking the job as soon as lifeguarding season is over.