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Unread 02/18/2014, 08:30 PM   #76
jedimasterben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqualund View Post
I would like to reduce the white a bit and bring up the greens to reduce some of the purplish hue from the UV's.
The violet LEDs would not be the source of the purple hue - more than likely it is what you're getting when you mix red and blue, in this case the warm white in the Lumia mixing with the royal blue. I had a bank of the 430nm hyper violets - 28x of them at 700mA - over my 80g tank. If only those LEDs had power, the tank of course was purple. If any other channel was on even at 5-10% (neutral white, royal blue, blue, cyan), the purple color vanished. It doesn't take much to overpower even 26 optical watts of violet light.

More higher blue (465-480nm)/cyan eliminates the purple hue, green doesn't do all that great a job, but it does get the job done with enough green light.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 10:44 PM   #77
Aqualund
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Originally Posted by Fredfish View Post
Is that just a single 495 nm led in the center of the fixture? Does it really cover the entire tank? I would have thought you would need multiples of any suplementary colour for uniform coverage throughout the whole tank.
It covers that section. The lumias have 495's in them as well.


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Originally Posted by jedimasterben View Post
The violet LEDs would not be the source of the purple hue - more than likely it is what you're getting when you mix red and blue, in this case the warm white in the Lumia mixing with the royal blue. I had a bank of the 430nm hyper violets - 28x of them at 700mA - over my 80g tank. If only those LEDs had power, the tank of course was purple. If any other channel was on even at 5-10% (neutral white, royal blue, blue, cyan), the purple color vanished. It doesn't take much to overpower even 26 optical watts of violet light.

More higher blue (465-480nm)/cyan eliminates the purple hue, green doesn't do all that great a job, but it does get the job done with enough green light.
Okay here we go huh?

I'm sorry I didn't clarify what I meant by the "greens" since the lumias nor any of the leds I show on my diagram are true "green" rather they are all 495nm, which is listed as "Turquoise" on the led group buy site.

So with that being said, my best description for the hue which I did not like, was a purplish hue...which was only apparent in a subtle manner when I had my UV channels on...of which I countered with a Turquoise 495nm supplementation from the Lumias.

When I mix the warm whites and the blues, in any ratio, I do not see this hue which I do not like. Therefore, based on this, and your information, the hue I am seeing must not be purple, and rather some other color. regardless, when I increase the % of Turquoise light, this unknown hue is washed away.

So again, I'm so sorry for speaking so cavalier with regard to the proper terms.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 10:55 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Aqualund View Post
It covers that section. The lumias have 495's in them as well...
Hmm, I missed that. I thought the Lumia had the 475's. That would be why you have 4 of the 470's then.

I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 11:01 PM   #79
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yeah the lumias have CREE XPE2 Blue which is the 475 I think you're referring to, and then the Turquoise as well.

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I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.
Yeah it's a necessity to make the leds do what you want! It's half the fun


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Unread 02/19/2014, 12:52 AM   #80
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Lot's of people report the "UV" LEDs in the 405 to 420nm range look very bright pink/purple to them, even in very small amounts. It has to due with our eyes, and everyone's different unique perception to light. Some like very actinic tanks that are heavy on these wavelengths, some can't stand the look. Too each their own, the coral could really care less, anything in adequate amounts in the 420 to 480 range will produce great coral growth. the rest is just up to us to decide what we like to look at!

Me, I perceive low nanometer violets as a pale blue color, barely noticeable if not for the florescence they produce. Many see one UV led in their tank casting a horrible pink or purple color, me I dominate my builds with them because I like the look they produce. There are many accounts in this regard, you simply have to see them and make up your own mind, everyone's eyes are different......

Most flourescent bulbs and MH balance this out pretty well with green and red in the spectrum but LEDs can be very heavy on this end, since the green and red spikes in thier spectrum are less drastic, so you just have to see them to know what you will like.

Again, the coral couldn't care less if it is getting adequate amounts of anything between 420 and 480 it will grow and do fine, the symbiotic zooxanthellae are very adaptable.




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Unread 02/19/2014, 12:55 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Fredfish View Post
Hmm, I missed that. I thought the Lumia had the 475's. That would be why you have 4 of the 470's then.

I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.
It is really just a necessity to cater to the masses with one product since making LED boards has a substantial R&D cost right now. Simply make one that can be "tuned" to fit everyone's taste..... Fluorescent and MH accomplish the same thing by just swamping bulbs until you find the combination you like, It is a little more difficult to simply "swap" LEDs right now but that will change in the next few years!

Best thing to do right now is just look for LED combos that are similar to the spectrum of other lights you like and go with those. Combine the right ones and dimming each channel is not needed. Only problem is that takes a good deal of trial and error for most people.


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Unread 02/19/2014, 01:14 AM   #82
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I enjoy the discussion about the different mixtures getting rid of the purple hue. My tank has a slight purple hue (I don't like the purple look, but mine is very mild and tolerable). I am still a little curious about the effects of the multichip on the disco effect/banding. If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation? I'm curious to see the limit that can be pushed in regards to this issue.


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Unread 02/19/2014, 01:28 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by crn005 View Post
I enjoy the discussion about the different mixtures getting rid of the purple hue. My tank has a slight purple hue (I don't like the purple look, but mine is very mild and tolerable). I am still a little curious about the effects of the multichip on the disco effect/banding. If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation? I'm curious to see the limit that can be pushed in regards to this issue.
Ditto that. I'm curious to see the shimmer effect. Please post a video.


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Unread 02/19/2014, 04:13 PM   #84
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A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.

Again please dont judge the placement of corals yet...still haven't gotten around to fixing all of that

http://youtu.be/YF7SdX7s_WM


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Unread 02/19/2014, 08:44 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by zachts View Post
...
Best thing to do right now is just look for LED combos that are similar to the spectrum of other lights you like and go with those. Combine the right ones and dimming each channel is not needed. Only problem is that takes a good deal of trial and error for most people.
Except that I don't know exactly what I like. The last time I kept corals, I used an Iwasaki MH and that was too yellow. I'm probably leaning towards something in the 10K range. I really don't like the blue look that seems so popular now. It looks very artificial to me.

Seems like a single Lumia to play with is probably the best place to start (don't need to learn to solder first).


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Unread 02/19/2014, 11:56 PM   #86
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Quote:
A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.
The shimmer wasn't as crisp as I was thinking it would be, but it was also shot with a lower quality camera (no offense) and you had a serious amount of surface turbulence going on. I wish I could see it person! I think that multichips are the future of reef lighting and I can't wait to see some in action in person.


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Unread 02/20/2014, 12:01 AM   #87
zachts
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Originally Posted by Aqualund View Post
A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.

Again please dont judge the placement of corals yet...still haven't gotten around to fixing all of that

http://youtu.be/YF7SdX7s_WM
I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......

over all not bad at all but for me the blue shadowing eveing in the static pics would bother me.

could you post a video with only the lumias?


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Unread 02/20/2014, 12:02 AM   #88
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Except that I don't know exactly what I like. The last time I kept corals, I used an Iwasaki MH and that was too yellow. I'm probably leaning towards something in the 10K range. I really don't like the blue look that seems so popular now. It looks very artificial to me.

Seems like a single Lumia to play with is probably the best place to start (don't need to learn to solder first).
my best advice to you is to try and see differnt lights in person before making up your mind.


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Unread 02/20/2014, 12:46 AM   #89
crn005
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I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......
Yeah that was something I didn't get from the beginning. Why pay for the single-source lights and then throw in the other LEDs on the side? It defeats the purpose, IMO.


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Unread 02/20/2014, 01:28 AM   #90
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When you provide light from an led it radiates out from a point source. So say you have a coral like right underneath that light...it get's the light beams from directly above it. SPS will tend to form their polyps and coloration wherever the light hits them "enough." this is why a lot of led users complain about the "shading" effect where this was not an issue for the MH users.

For MH, there is a reflector there to bounce the light from many different angles...and not only from directly above the coral...but also from an offset at whatever the radius of the reflector is. This minimizes shading and the polyps fully develop on nearly all sides of the SPS coral, making it more attractive, and color more uniformly.

I pointed this out earlier, but the lumias cover a 24x24 area...but there are low par areas at the edge of their 24x24 area...so the supplemental lighting is to provide light from many different angles in a MH-like pattern, and fill in the gaps the lumias dont.

Overall the cost to light my tank is WELL below the industry average for lighting...so adding the extra $80 in the supplemental lighting was a no brainer.

Quote:
The shimmer wasn't as crisp as I was thinking it would be, but it was also shot with a lower quality camera (no offense) and you had a serious amount of surface turbulence going on. I wish I could see it person! I think that multichips are the future of reef lighting and I can't wait to see some in action in person.
I purposely put the surface like that and showed it at the start of the video....because you asked for it

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If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation?




Last edited by Aqualund; 02/20/2014 at 01:39 AM.
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Unread 02/20/2014, 01:31 AM   #91
Aqualund
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Originally Posted by zachts View Post
I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......

over all not bad at all but for me the blue shadowing eveing in the static pics would bother me.

could you post a video with only the lumias?
Not anytime soon...it was a stretch for me to do this video!

But I will gladly answer any questions anyone has.



Last edited by Aqualund; 02/20/2014 at 01:38 AM.
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Unread 02/20/2014, 01:56 AM   #92
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Well I wanted to say thanks for posting all that you have done. I feel like you have been pretty upfront with what worked and what didn't work well. I think something like the Lumia chip with multiple chips spread over an array would be an interesting thing to try to replace T5s someday for me.

I have been doing a lot of research and it seems like the trick to properly mimic T5s is to balance red, green, and blue to provide the appearance of white without overdoing the yellow or red. Spreading the chips out over an array would provide the coverage and minimize shading, i would run them individually at lower outputs. When you get a bunch more of these made it would be interesting to see what kind of par they could generate when they are clustered closer together.


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Unread 02/20/2014, 11:17 AM   #93
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... When you get a bunch more of these made it would be interesting to see what kind of par they could generate when they are clustered closer together.
A boatload I would imagine. From what Aqualund has done, it looks like 4 to 6 clusters per 24 x 24" area are needed to overcome the point source effect of LEDs.

For some reason or other, all the manufacturers out there like clusters of 20 to 25 LEDs. GHL does use 12 LED clusters. That seems a lot closer to optimum from what I have read to date.

We all owe Aqualund a bit thanks for being the guinea p, um, on the leading edge here.


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Unread 02/20/2014, 08:16 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqualund View Post
When you provide light from an led it radiates out from a point source. So say you have a coral like right underneath that light...it get's the light beams from directly above it. SPS will tend to form their polyps and coloration wherever the light hits them "enough." this is why a lot of led users complain about the "shading" effect where this was not an issue for the MH users.

For MH, there is a reflector there to bounce the light from many different angles...and not only from directly above the coral...but also from an offset at whatever the radius of the reflector is. This minimizes shading and the polyps fully develop on nearly all sides of the SPS coral, making it more attractive, and color more uniformly.

I pointed this out earlier, but the lumias cover a 24x24 area...but there are low par areas at the edge of their 24x24 area...so the supplemental lighting is to provide light from many different angles in a MH-like pattern, and fill in the gaps the lumias dont.

Overall the cost to light my tank is WELL below the industry average for lighting...so adding the extra $80 in the supplemental lighting was a no brainer.



I purposely put the surface like that and showed it at the start of the video....because you asked for it
I see what you're saying and I can see the value in using the supplemental LEDs. Also, I didn't say it before, but thank you for making the video! I didn't mean to come off as being a jerk


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Unread 02/22/2014, 01:19 PM   #95
thedru13
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Great thread.. My set up is no where near as complex. I have a 65 gallon RedSea Max 250. I am looking to refresh my current set up. I retrofitted LEDs into my hood years ago. Looking to make a change.

I have been researching the Lumia 5.2s.. So was wondering if I keep my existing hood and build with just 2 Lumia 5.2 with five Meanwell LDD drivers and I would use my existing typhoon controller is this going to provide enough lite? My tank has an array of LPS and sps with a few fish. I have poor growth in my tank and the color has been meh at best. Hence why I am looking to go this route.

Let me know your thoughts appreciate any help. Thanks.


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Unread 02/22/2014, 01:49 PM   #96
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I think it would provide enough light, but I don't think it would give good enough coverage. I would use one 5.2 in the middle and then like 6 3-up clusters on the edges to give good coverage and omnidirectional light.


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Unread 02/22/2014, 01:53 PM   #97
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As i had 3/4 of my led lightning setup (custom DIY multichip full spectrum led) when lumia 5.2 came on market i decided to transpose in multichip the 5.2 configuration. So i order 4 multichip 25w led with 5 chanels. Eache chanel as 5x 45mil chips in it with 15-17V Vf so i can connect in serie 2 of this led and have a better ligth pattern with only 5 LDD driver instead 2x 50W and 10 LDD driver.

The chips distribution is the 5.2 one



Leds are under way to home. Here is a picture the factory send me



I will power 2x in serie with 5 LDD-350h driver connected on a 36V SMPS unit.


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Unread 02/22/2014, 02:32 PM   #98
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Thanks Aqualund.. When you say 3-up clusters should I be looking for something specific? Sorry still really very new to this.

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Originally Posted by Aqualund View Post
I think it would provide enough light, but I don't think it would give good enough coverage. I would use one 5.2 in the middle and then like 6 3-up clusters on the edges to give good coverage and omnidirectional light.



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Unread 02/22/2014, 04:40 PM   #99
Aqualund
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Originally Posted by Idefixes View Post
As i had 3/4 of my led lightning setup (custom DIY multichip full spectrum led) when lumia 5.2 came on market i decided to transpose in multichip the 5.2 configuration. So i order 4 multichip 25w led with 5 chanels. Eache chanel as 5x 45mil chips in it with 15-17V Vf so i can connect in serie 2 of this led and have a better ligth pattern with only 5 LDD driver instead 2x 50W and 10 LDD driver.

The chips distribution is the 5.2 one



Leds are under way to home. Here is a picture the factory send me



I will power 2x in serie with 5 LDD-350h driver connected on a 36V SMPS unit.
You can drive two Lumias with only 5 ldd's, and have more lumens per watt output compared to your 25w chips.

thedru13

Just do a search for 3 up star cluster...or go specifically to the led group buy site. You'll pay more for their pre-assembly...compared to getting everything yourself and making them yourself...but its still pretty cheap. Just alternate between the royal blue/warm white and royal blue/natural white 3-up clusters. (3 of each)


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Unread 02/22/2014, 05:33 PM   #100
thedru13
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Awesome thanks again for your help.. Pricing everything out now. Assuming i would have to solder for this? Was going to try and re use the heat sync i have on there now. Save a few bucks where i can.

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thedru13

Just do a search for 3 up star cluster...or go specifically to the led group buy site. You'll pay more for their pre-assembly...compared to getting everything yourself and making them yourself...but its still pretty cheap. Just alternate between the royal blue/warm white and royal blue/natural white 3-up clusters. (3 of each)



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