|
01/16/2018, 01:32 PM | #1 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Max Vinegar/Kalk Solution Concentration
Forgive me, but I need to know... If I have 550 ml of plain white vinegar (5%) dissolved in a gallon of RODI water, how much kalk could I reasonably expect to be able to dissolve in the solution? Please and Thank You!
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
01/16/2018, 02:17 PM | #2 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,076
|
Quote:
45ml to a gallon will give you a fully starated mix with 3 teaspoons of Kalk, you will not be able to dissolve any more kalk to a gallon of water. |
|
01/16/2018, 03:19 PM | #3 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
I thought while I was at it, I might as well use as much kalk as possible to reduce the two part I need to dose. My thought was to mix a gallon of solution containing as much kalk as would dissolve and see what my alk & ca levels do. I'd appreciate any feedback on this plan. Thanks.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/16/2018, 03:36 PM | #4 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
You should able to dissolve a lot. It should work, but I don't have the chemistry skills to be sure of the maximum concentration that the water would support. The good new is that any extra lime will just sink to the bottom of the container, and will dissolve when some more water is added. I probably would try adding 1/8 cup of Kalk, and then double the amount added until I couldn't get it all to dissolve.
Do you have some numbers for calcium and alkalinity consumption per day? We could work from there.
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/16/2018, 04:39 PM | #5 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/16/2018, 06:10 PM | #6 | |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
Quote:
It's an interesting question, actually. Not dumb at all. Good luck!
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
|
01/16/2018, 06:23 PM | #7 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 233
|
Isn't max kalk 2 teaspoons per gallon? Or is it different when vinegar is involved?
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk |
01/16/2018, 07:06 PM | #8 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
Vinegar helps dissolve more Kalk, so the 2 tsp limit doesn't apply. Any acid will help dissolve more Kalk, but mineral acids will consume the alkalinity permanently.
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/17/2018, 08:32 AM | #9 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/17/2018, 12:57 PM | #10 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
Yes, as long as you use an organic acid. The organic acid binds the alkalinity until the organic portion is consumed, then the alkalinity is released:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm#7
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/17/2018, 02:06 PM | #11 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/17/2018, 03:55 PM | #12 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
You're welcome. Good luck!
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/17/2018, 10:26 PM | #13 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
So... I got about 1/4 cup of kalk to dissolve in a solution. Of 500 ml of vinegar and enough RODI water to make a gallon. There is a little precipitation but not much. That's more than double the concentration I was using.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
01/17/2018, 10:28 PM | #14 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redwood City
Posts: 1,354
|
Try mixing the kalk and vinegar together and then add to R/O
Cheers! Mark
__________________
2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater |
01/18/2018, 08:16 AM | #15 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/18/2018, 08:45 AM | #16 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redwood City
Posts: 1,354
|
__________________
2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater |
01/18/2018, 10:59 AM | #17 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
Quote:
So, if I used a gallon of water, the same ratio would that let me use roughly 56ml of vinegar and 5.5 tsp of kalk. The goal of my outside the box experiment is to see how much kalk I can dissolve in a useable solution of roughly 500 ml of vinegar and enough water to make a gallon. My method of mixing the vinegar and water, then kalk resulted in a saturation level of about 11 tsp. per gallon (a little less than 1/4 cup). Do you think dissolving the kalk in vinegar and then adding water enable any more to be dissolved in the solution? I don't think my process is really affected by the CO2 in the system. 50 ml of the Kalk/Vinegar Solution is divided into 24 doses throughout the day. So only 2ml is dosed at any time.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
|
01/18/2018, 02:04 PM | #18 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redwood City
Posts: 1,354
|
Quote:
__________________
2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater |
|
01/18/2018, 05:38 PM | #19 | |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
Quote:
There are some other issues, but using vinegar with Kalk is fine.
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
|
01/27/2018, 11:59 AM | #20 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
My solution of 500 ml vinegar, most 1/4 cup of kalk, and aabout 3300 ml of RODI sat for a couple of weeks to see what would happen. It did grow some bacteria. The water stayed clear bit clumps of slimy gunk formed. Back to the drawing board. Thanks everyone for your inputs.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
01/27/2018, 07:26 PM | #21 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
Did you check the pH of the solution?
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/27/2018, 08:21 PM | #22 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
I didn't. I figured it was as high as it was going to get with that much kalk in it.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
01/27/2018, 08:56 PM | #23 |
RC Mod
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
|
I should have thought about the risk that the pH would drop low enough to allow bacterial activity.
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni |
01/28/2018, 12:38 PM | #24 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 2,621
|
You did & mentioned it earlier in this thread. I made a bad assumption. Also, I acquired a dosing pump that would dose snall quantities while the experiment was in process. The diluted vinegar in no longer required.
__________________
John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef |
Thread Tools | |
|
|