New fish: dead

[dgelz]

Every time I buy a new fish to add to the tank, they end up dying within three days. I've got a healthy group of all non aggressive fish that I've had for three years now, but anytime I try to add something g to the group it always dies (I always see my clean up crew tearing it to shreds). Is it possible the cuc is attacking it as it rests? Are the native fish not welcoming the refugee? My params are good, I just do t have a clue why new fish are dying.
Anyone ever go through this?


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[BrickFishHouse]

It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of existing communities not welcoming the new guy.

What's in your tank?
What have you tried adding?

[blkg35]

Are you qt'ing the fishes first before adding to your existing tank?
Are you noticing any aggression from the existing fishes to the new fishes?

[VWHACK]

Lots of factors are involved. Your salinity, temperature, nitrates, dissolved organics etc. Having an established aquarium and adding a fish that repeatedly will not make it leads me to believe the source fish are questionable or there is something adverse with your water. And the existing fish have acclimated to over time.

[hydrahawk]

Originally Posted by blkg35

Are you qt'ing the fishes first before adding to your existing tank?
Are you noticing any aggression from the existing fishes to the new fishes?

+1 I would always qt my new arrivals. You just don't know what pathogens the new guy is bringing in.

[m0nkie]

An acclimation box would help.. keep the new guy eating for a few days before letting it go free

[KWoo008]

Here are some other questions:

What type of fish do you currently keep?
What were the last few fish you've tried to add that did not make it?
Have you been buying you fish from various LFS or the same store?
How are you acclimating the new fish to your tank?

[blkg35]

Also, what symptoms or signs are the fish exhibiting before they die?

[slief]

I'd say fish source or acclimation methods and honestly, I lean towards acclimation methods.. Do you check the salinity of the water fish are arriving in? What's the salinity in the tank your are moving them into? Most stores and online sellers maintain low salinity levels. As low as 1.018-1.019 for places like live aquaria and 1.021 or lower for most stores. Unless of course they are coming out of a reef system which isn't typical for most retail suppliers. Acclimating a fish from as low as 1.021 to 1.025-1.026 (typical reef salinity) in one whack is not a good idea. Fish can handle relatively quick salinity drops but they can't handle fast rises in salinity. They need salinity increased slowly over the course of days otherwise they can suffer from osmotic shock and it will kill them. With fish coming from low salinity water, QT is critical so you can match the salinity of the QT to that of the incoming water. That way you can raise the salinity slowly over the course of several days. This pactics also speeds up acclimation from the bag water lessoning chances of ammonia poisoning which can happen during drip acclimation if the fish has been in the bag for several hours or more or even less.

[dgelz]

Current stock: two flame wrasses, yellow tang, tomoni tang, desjardini tang, two clowns, gold blenny, borbinius, and a single blue reef chromis (non Aggressive small guy).
Dead newbies: I've had the last four of those blue reef damsels die, and a mandarin. All bought from the same store, about 6 months apart.

[dgelz]

My acclimation is a little on the careless side...I set the bag in the sumo for about an hour, then gradually add water from my tank to the existing water. After about an hour and a half...I to the tank they go.

[Germanwerks]

Originally Posted by slief

I'd say fish source or acclimation methods and honestly, I lean towards acclimation methods.. Do you check the salinity of the water fish are arriving in? What's the salinity in the tank your are moving them into? Most stores and online sellers maintain low salinity levels. As low as 1.018-1.019 for places like live aquaria and 1.021 or lower for most stores. Unless of course they are coming out of a reef system which isn't typical for most retail suppliers. Acclimating a fish from as low as 1.021 to 1.025-1.026 (typical reef salinity) in one whack is not a good idea. Fish can handle relatively quick salinity drops but they can't handle fast rises in salinity. They need salinity increased slowly over the course of days otherwise they can suffer from osmotic shock and it will kill them. With fish coming from low salinity water, QT is critical so you can match the salinity of the QT to that of the incoming water. That way you can raise the salinity slowly over the course of several days. This pactics also speeds up acclimation from the bag water lessoning chances of ammonia poisoning which can happen during drip acclimation if the fish has been in the bag for several hours or more or even less.

Ditto

[slief]

Originally Posted by dgelz

My acclimation is a little on the careless side...I set the bag in the sumo for about an hour, then gradually add water from my tank to the existing water. After about an hour and a half...I to the tank they go.

And the fish come from where?
You do or don't check the bag salinity??
Your tank salinity is what?

Given what you said above, it sounds like osmotic shock. I'm thinking the bag salinity is much lower than you realize and delta between the bag salinity and your tank salinity is more than the fish can handle in such a short amount of time, let alone in the same day. It could also be brought on large pH shifts which can happen during acclimation of fish that have been shipped. Once the bag is opened, the pH will change rapidly. Another reason a QT can be useful because you make a minor adjustment to the salinity and pH of the QT while you float the bag and you can pretty much skip acclimiation short of a couple mixes of water over the course of 20 minutes or less. The you slowly adjust the QT water to match the display water. This results in much less stress on the fish.

[m0nkie]

Also borbonius is a mean fish.. meanest anthias i've owned.. there was a time when mine would not allow any new comers..

[slief]

Originally Posted by m0nkie

Also borbonius is a mean fish.. meanest anthias i've owned.. there was a time when mine would not allow any new comers..

Wow.. My borb doesn't bother anybody.. He's probably my least agressiv fish short of my pipe fish.

[GTR]

Chromis/damsels will usually survive forever if they make it past the 2 week mark. They are super stressed on import due to the bag size. Days 3-7 I consider the turning point. While source does play a role in their health, even the best source will have occasional, ongoing problems. Mandarins just don't do well because of their feeding habits. They're also prone to bacteria infection from shipping stress.
With your already healthy collection you should consider ways to reduce risking the health of those.

[fearyaks]

Could also be the fish. Chromis are often hit or miss and I've heard that Blue Reefs are a particular challenge early on. And maybe just bad luck with the Mandarin..

[billyzbear]

I agree with fearyaks.

[isseym328]

Probably not your acclimation method unless water parameters are way different between bag water and tank water. I go through the same acclimation process and don't lose fish so it's not careless. Test bag water and tank water and see what the diff is. Process of elimination. Also try to put new fishes in a container for a few days (I usually do this to make sure they are eating before I let them loose.)

[m0nkie]

or try putting the new fish in the sump first. they have plenty pods and no competition. when they are eating and fat, transfer back to the display

[babyjess210]

Originally Posted by m0nkie

An acclimation box would help.. keep the new guy eating for a few days before letting it go free

+1 on the box

Originally Posted by dgelz

Current stock: two flame wrasses, yellow tang, tomoni tang, desjardini tang, two clowns, gold blenny, borbinius, and a single blue reef chromis (non Aggressive small guy).
Dead newbies: I've had the last four of those blue reef damsels die, and a mandarin. All bought from the same store, about 6 months apart.

You may think your tangs are not aggressive but they will surprise you. My yellow,blue and naso decided that no other fish will join the "group". They will go after wrasse, goby or anything that swim and do it when I'm not looking.

[dgelz]

Originally Posted by m0nkie

or try putting the new fish in the sump first. they have plenty pods and no competition. when they are eating and fat, transfer back to the display

Will try this next time. Will also buy fish from local reefer, not a store next time. So who's got some fish for sale? I'm low.