Algal genus Spotlight: Bryopsis "hair algae"

[Paul B]

My tank with the rocks has been set up and running continousely since 1971. The rocks are the same as when Nixon was President. I have no bryopsis and never have.
When does Old Tank Syndrome kick in?

[conorwynne]

When your tank is 50 Paul. It's still young (same age as me).

You will never get bryopsis unless you
1. introduce it
2. feed it.

I'm not sure I agree with the old tank syndrome either.

Conor.

[Paul B]

My tank still has 12 years to go to reach fifty.
I think thats when "Old Tank Syndrome" kicks in

[kypatriot]

Originally posted by Claeth
Ive found the only way to remove it completely is to consider the rock its growing on dead, a sign of Old Tank Syndrome, (which should be called old rock syndrome), and literally remove it from the main system or put it in the dark part of a sump for a long time.

Except in my tank, the stuff grows on the glass, overflow box, powerheads, and thermometer probe - not on the rocks. This theory would mean that I should toss the glass tank and all the equipment, keeping my rocks.

I don't buy the old tank theory at all. I can tell you the day this stuff entered my tank - I did it on purpose, because I thought it was a kind of caulerpa that my tangs would like to eat. It has been there since, and incredibly hard to eliminate.

Tech-M worked for a while, but I don't think I completed the treatment. It was definitely killing the stuff off, but as soon as it started, I quit adding it, and the bryopsis returned with a vengance.

[conorwynne]

I killed mine off by

1. cooking rock
2. Dosing high amounts of magnesium (above 1400PPM)
3. Running phosban
4. Feeding way less to keep nutrients down.

Now I have none whatsoever. Well, alomst none, none to speak of I should say. I don't have enough CUC -- only three snails, and two are babies :-)

One of these days I'll get more. And maybe a fish or two. maybe.

[lossman]

We seem to go through cycles with this. I can't seem to find a rhyme or reason for it. It grows on this rock but not that rock. It grows on these snail shells but not those. It grows in high flow areas and then in low flow areas. It grows when we have a high number of CUC and then when we have only a few left. It grows in the main tank but not in the sump, then in the sump but not in the main tank. Then, for no reason whatsoever, it disappears, only to reappear a year down the road. After almost 4 years and numerous cycles of this hair algae, I've come to accept it as part of the normal cycle. I'll pluck it and pull it and scrub it off the hydors as it gets too long, but since we have been lucky enough for it to never have gotten overwhelming, I don't sweat it as much as I did way back when. I sometimes even enjoy the color it adds to the tank and the way it sways in the flow. And I really get a kick out of it when it grows thickly on a snail shell and watch that snail make it's way across the glass.

Of course, we have been blessed not to have been overwhelmed by hair algae. For those of you who have been, I truly feel for you!

[Corsu]

HI People. My name is Javier From Argentina.

Has anyone had this tipe of Algae? Or at least can tell me which is its name?

It is invading my reef and i dont know how to controll it.

Parameters

NO3 = 0
Ca 400
Mg 1250
Dkh= 7.5










Thanks
Javier

[azrednex]

Javier, it looks like "red turf" My sailfin tang eats it. I actually grow it on purpose in my overflow to feed to the sailfin.

[kypatriot]

My yellow tang eats it too.

I just came back from being on vacation for a week, so my tangs didn't get any nori while I was gone (I usually feed nori twice a day). Anyway, since they've been fed less, my tangs are now eating hair algae and bryopsis off my rocks. Guess I was feeding them too much before.

[The bull]

very nice job

[jack.pe]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
vest - you have it backwards. algae won't grow in clean nutrient poor water like a brand new water change. fish poop, detritus, etc are the nutrients it feeds off of...not the elements in fresh water change water

disolved organics in the water make it grow faster. remember the solution to polution is dilusion (hence water changes to dilute it)

Lunchbucket

Theoretically you are absolutely right, however I have also heard that water changes can sometimes feed algae even if the water is "clean", i.e 0 on Nitrate and Phosphate, the theory being that there are other substances or minerals that come with the salt mix that are also feeding the algae. Not sure which substances or minerals these are supposed to be or if true but I have heard that before.

What frustrates me about this hobby is that there are so few definite answers and that so much ofit seems to be pot luck, such as someone having a perfect tank for years, nothing changing and then suddenly getting explosions of algae... we need more proper scientific reasearch and analisys so we can properly understand what really drives these suddend changes. Still love it though!

[Lunchbucket]

Originally posted by jack.pe
Theoretically you are absolutely right, however I have also heard that water changes can sometimes feed algae even if the water is "clean", i.e 0 on Nitrate and Phosphate, the theory being that there are other substances or minerals that come with the salt mix that are also feeding the algae. Not sure which substances or minerals these are supposed to be or if true but I have heard that before.

What frustrates me about this hobby is that there are so few definite answers and that so much ofit seems to be pot luck, such as someone having a perfect tank for years, nothing changing and then suddenly getting explosions of algae... we need more proper scientific reasearch and analisys so we can properly understand what really drives these suddend changes. Still love it though!

I'd agree w/ that. Sometimes seems that after a water change is when my algae gets a burst of growth. I'm sure it sucks out some sort of nutrient and needs more which it gets by water changes

I tried the elevated Mg trick w/ Randies 2 part recipe. Got my Mg to 1700+ for a week or more and NO change in bryopsis. So I'm wondering if people are right about the Tech M having something in it that is affecting the bryopsis?

Lunchbucket

[kirkaz]

Hi folks....Just wondering what this is? Could it be Bryopsis? None of my current fish will eat it, I have a Sohal Tang coming Thursday, so we will see if he eats it. It has been very very slow growing over the past 3 or 4 months to its current length of about 6 or 7 inchs long in spots. I haven't really worried about as I think it looks good "whisping" in my PH flow.

Pic 1 no flash[IMG][/IMG]

Pic 2 with flash
[IMG][/IMG]

[conorwynne]

If this is the only place where the HA is growing, then consider removing that piece of rock and cooking it.

It may be leaching phosphates.

I had a similar problem and after cooking no HA has appeared on any other rocks. Mind you, 100% of my rock has been replaced with cooked rock.

Regards,
Conor

[SHOmuchFUN]

Originally posted by kirkaz
Hi folks....Just wondering what this is? Could it be Bryopsis? None of my current fish will eat it, I have a Sohal Tang coming Thursday, so we will see if he eats it. It has been very very slow growing over the past 3 or 4 months to its current length of about 6 or 7 inchs long in spots. I haven't really worried about as I think it looks good "whisping" in my PH flow.

Pic 1 no flash[IMG][/IMG]

I also have been battling this form of algae. I am losing unfortunately.

I'm curious if you've had any luck with it? I don't believe it's bryopsis though...

[emissary43]

orange spot rabbit fish huh, I might have to try that... just have to be careful not to spook in when my arm is in the tank

[sivert55]

I had that red turf stuff in a nano. I couldn't ever completely get rid of it. i finally had to take the affected rocks out and leave them in the hot summer sun for a week.

[Kissfan79]

How exactly does live rock leach phosphates? I understand the concept of leaching but how does the rock get "saturated" or loaded with phosphate to leach out? I am currently in the midst of my own hair algae war and will post pics to see if it is indeedn your average green hair algae or bryopsis. I know the causes of high phosphates but how does rock leach phosphates?

Thanks, Jim

[Paul B]

I have also heard that water changes can sometimes feed algae even if the water is "clean", i.e 0 on Nitrate and Phosphate, the theory being that there are other substances or minerals that come with the salt mix that are also feeding the algae. Not sure which substances or minerals these are supposed to be or if true but I have heard that before.

Actually I invented that idea about water changes fueling alga(sometimes) It is true that many people do not experience algae until they do a water change.

What frustrates me about this hobby is that there are so few definite answers and that so much of it seems to be pot luck, such as someone having a perfect tank for years, nothing changing and then suddenly getting explosions of algae... we need more proper scientific reasearch and analisys so we can properly understand what really drives these suddend changes. Still love it though!

Unfortunately if you are looking for scientific research here, you will not find it. This hobby is called ornamental fish keeping and being ornimental, there is no real money to be made researching it.
It ia a hobby and has as many variables as there are hobbiests.
Changing water can cause algae explosions depending on what was limiting the algae in the first place.
If there is absolutely no iron in your water, algae will not grow but if you add iron through a water change, it can grow. There also can be some nitrates and phosphates in your make up water.
The best way to remove algae causing chemicals, is, unfortunately, to grow algae.
Hair algae is very good at removing unwanted nutrients, of course we don't want the hair algae either but if we do not change water and let the HA remove the nutrients, it will die. When it dies we can remove it because if it rots in the water, the cycle will start again.
It is a shame but HA actually makes the water healthier. The best solution is to provide a place for the algae to grow where it has better growing conditions than your tank. I use a shallow trough right under my main reef lighting.
I know that you will hear all sorts of opinions on how to eliminate algae, thats because it disappears on it's own. Your couple of snails did not eat it as many people think.
The first thing people say is to change the water, read all the posts you can find and see if that ever worked.
As I said, it leaves on it's own as long as you reduce feeding and stop changing water. Unless of course youy have a dead animal in there or severly overfed, then you should change the water.
Confised?

This was my tank 15 or 20 years ago, see all the hair algae?
Notice how healthy the corals are?
This algae left on it's own like it always does. It happens every few years in cycles and it always will.
[IMG][/IMG]

[eyesinthedrk]

i reciently won my battle with cyano and HA, i was told by experts that out city water was good to go just add declorinator, i also didnt have any coral so i didnt run much by way of lighting , so when i did finally get a quality light system after 6 months of building up my nitrates and phos theough water change and top off as well as feeding 3 times a day as recomended for a few gobies i have, the light acted like a trigger and the HA and cyano exploded,

what i didnt do was remove the algae, i did remove the cyano as it liked to choke off my live rock or sand wich i felt would have compounded my problems, my issues were excessive nitrients, so i limit what went in by feeding 3 times a week rater than 3 times a day, using ro/di exclusivly, i added a phosban reactor and let the HA consume what ever it could, i added more snails and an urchin because i wanted one anyway, the HA is in recession and the snails and crabs are eating the die off before it can send the ntrients back to the tank, like everything in the reef hobby my battle has been one of balance,

i dont agree with just killing the lights, or adding this or that because it eats it, the hair algae is the symptom of the problem not the real problem kind of like saying you took some robitussen for your caugh but didnt see a doctor for your tuberculosis

again leaving the hair algae in place i feel is key, you will always add something to the tank to feed HA, if you scrub the rock and glass and suck out the scraping then nothing is eating the trates or phos and in stead its building, just like in a real war if you fight the army they can regroupe and resupply, if you cut the supply line the army dies

"amature warriors study tactics, profesional warriors study logistics" - Gen Chuck Horner

[cnaegler]

I read an article, after googling bryopsis, that removing any infected rocks or overflow/powerheads and placing them in the freezer for 48 hours will explode the cellulose(sp?) inside the bryopsis, killing it...FOREVER!!! I placed an infected pump in the freezer so we'll see. Anyone heard anything like this?

[conorwynne]

It's a quick fix, but won't address the root cause of it. Algae will indeed die at a cellular level when frozen. The cells explode or something.

The best way is to get rid of the cause of the algae.
Nutrient export via skimming, phosphate removal media, nitrate reduction, water changes, increased magnesium levels (1300ppm or more) and other reduction methods.
I find growing other algae is the best route -- out-compete the HA for nutrients and it doesn't have a chance.

I used to worry about HA, but I actually added a LR piece with HA on it to my new tank, it's really not a bother.

Conor

[cnaegler]

Originally posted by conorwynne
It's a quick fix, but won't address the root cause of it. Algae will indeed die at a cellular level when frozen. The cells explode or something.

The best way is to get rid of the cause of the algae.
Nutrient export via skimming, phosphate removal media, nitrate reduction, water changes, increased magnesium levels (1300ppm or more) and other reduction methods.
I find growing other algae is the best route -- out-compete the HA for nutrients and it doesn't have a chance.

I used to worry about HA, but I actually added a LR piece with HA on it to my new tank, it's really not a bother.

Conor

I agree with you about nutrient export and such but i actually had a refugium and it did not outcompete my bryopsis. My nitrates are always zero and my phosphates were .03 and falling so i wouldn't think i have a nutrient problem. As we speak i have raised my mag to above 1700 and i think that it's finally working.The bryopsis is turning white and is becoming stringy so...we'll see

[MantisBrad]

I have this crap taking over my tank and it's starting to **** me off. Here is a pic:



It's twice as bad now. I need to get my skimmer working and start pulling this stuff out.

[Surfzone]

that looks like a brillo pad algae that i also have growing in my tank. i can' find anythign that eats it or anything to get rid of it.