I can not get rid of Cyano bacteria

Sly1461 · 07/24/2016, 10:33 AM

I've been battling Cyano bacteria growth for 5 months. I am pretty much out of ideas of how to defeat it. I have tried Chemi clean treatment and siphoning out all the covered sand, boiling it in RO and returning it to the tank. I feed the tank frozen mysis and always drain the water it defrosts in before dropping into the tank. I was advised to put phosguard into the filter which I have done. However it is getting worse and starting to grow on my Montipora and basically looks horrible.

How do I get rid of this for good, I'm starting to think the only way is to do something dramatic, like pulling everything out and starting again

Tank details:
Been going for 9 months
Jewel lido 120 litre, HB Reef octopus skimmer, V2 Lumen air lighting, Eheim prof 3 filter.

2 Percula Clowns, Watchman goby, Cleaner shrimp
4 Hermits
10 Nassarius (which seem to be breeding rapidly)
2 turbo snails (one got eaten by a hermit crab recently after living happily for 6 months)
RBT Anemone, 2 torch corals, branched montipora, purple gorgonia, ricordea, zoanthids

Levels:
NO3 - 5-6 ppm
PO4 - 0.1
Mg - 1200
Ca - 380
KH - 8.4
pH - 8.0

(I do 18 litre water changes every two weeks and dose Mg, Ca & KH buffer weekly as these seem to drop. The skimmer runs in the day time only)

bmitchell138 · 07/24/2016, 10:51 AM

Are you just seeing it just in that corner of the tank? Maybe play with your power heads and get some more flow in that area or add another power head to the tank.

Just curious why you are only running your skimmer during the day?

Sly1461 · 07/24/2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmitchell138

Are you just seeing it just in that corner of the tank? Maybe play with your power heads and get some more flow in that area or add another power head to the tank.

Just curious why you are only running your skimmer during the day?

no reason other than its quite noisy. I could quite easily run it 24/7 if thats more beneficial to the tank?

The Cyano started in that corner but has now spread all around the tank mostly on the sand. I've tried to upload a pic but it keeps failing.

NS Mike D · 07/24/2016, 12:48 PM

so one school of thought is to feed the bacteria that will combine Carbon, Nitrogen and Phosphorus before the algae and cyano can use it.

Three menthols are vodka dosing, bio-pellets or NoPox (from Red Sea). The presence of carbon will encourage the bacteria to grow, locking up the C,N&P and then your skimmer should pull it out of the system.

I have read where you want your NO3 at 1.5 - 2 ppm for coral growth and 0.25 for color. PO4 at 0.1 for growth and 0.02 for color.

Do you have a refugium in your sum to grow macro algae which would compete with the cyano for nutrients?

1jwampler · 07/24/2016, 12:57 PM

+1 on run the skimmer 7/24 or at least at night. Cyano consumes CO2, all of your Algae has some die off at night, without light, this is why pH goes down at night (no photosynthesis) while O2 is still being consumed by your bacteria releasing CO2. The skimmer is one of the best mechanisms to aerate the water gassing off CO2 and hopefully getting closer to 21% O2. So, IMHO if you have to shutoff the skimmer the best time to do that is during the day, but, also remember if you have fish, they make more waste during the day, so have a good micron sock. Also consider cleaning the sand like you did, but, wrap up the tank and turn off the lights for a couple days after, Cyano, seems much more sensative to lack of light and CO2 than other Algaes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 07/24/2016, 01:05 PM

try the 3 day blackout (completely wrap the tank so NO light hits it).. Then siphon out what you can/whats left with a good water change after the 3 days..
Keep the skimmer on all the time..

It will go away in time as long as you keep after it..

I've also had good luck with red slime remover.. Just follow the directions exactly and repeat a few times..

Sly1461 · 07/24/2016, 01:38 PM

Thank you everyone for the response. That makes complete sense regarding the skimmer and I will start running it full time now.

NS mike D - I don't have a sump currently, this is an upgrade I'm hoping to make in the future but limited on funds at the mo!

1jwampler and mcgyvr - if I do a 3 day blackout in the tank what effect does this have on the livestock and the coral? Do I still feed?

So then directly after the 3 day black out siphon out all the sand and do a water change. Then I could do a Chemi clean treatment followed by another water change? Sounds more promising than anything I've done before.

Let me know if this is safe to do with the clowns etc.

homer1475 · 07/24/2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

try the 3 day blackout (completely wrap the tank so NO light hits it).. Then siphon out what you can/whats left with a good water change after the 3 days..
Keep the skimmer on all the time..

It will go away in time as long as you keep after it..

I've also had good luck with red slime remover.. Just follow the directions exactly and repeat a few times..

You actually don't need to wrap the tank so you have 0 light(read Sk8r's post about lights out). Ambient room lighting is fine. You just don't want to run your lights, or let direct sunlight hit the tank.

I would definitely keep the skimmer running 24/7, it helps oxygenate the water, decreasing CO2 levels which feeds algae.

mcgyvr · 07/24/2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly1461

mcgyvr - if I do a 3 day blackout in the tank what effect does this have on the livestock and the coral? Do I still feed?

It won't hurt to go a few days without light.. fish don't need light at all really and the corals can take a couple days just fine...kind of like having a few stormy dark days in nature... And you can feed if you want..

I find it works better to fully black out the tank.. Any light is useful for the bacteria so don't let it have any..

Sly1461 · 07/24/2016, 02:54 PM

Thanks everyone. Will let you know how it goes.

this was helpful also http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=lights+out

Sk8r · 07/24/2016, 03:02 PM

Don't completely wrap the tank: this may let snails eat some of your sand-sleeping fish alive, pretty nasty way to go. Go on natural and room lights only.
The lights-out part kills the bacterial sheet (cyano) and the skimmer uptakes the dead stuff and removes some of what makes it go. Using Chemiclean on a young tank is risky.

Nina51 · 07/24/2016, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I've also had good luck with red slime remover.. Just follow the directions exactly and repeat a few times..

this^!!! i got so sick of siphoning and fighting cyano, i finally broke down and used the red slime remover. had to dose twice but the cyano has been gone for weeks now.

degibson84 · 07/24/2016, 03:52 PM

Ive tried everything from chemi clean to red slime remover.

Tried microbe lift special blend to microbacter7.

Now going to try aquavitro remediation.

Blackouts do nothing to cyano as it doesn't need light to survive since it's not an algae.

mcgyvr · 07/24/2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degibson84

Blackouts do nothing to cyano as it doesn't need light to survive since it's not an algae.

Its a photosynthetic bacteria... blackouts do work..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

heathlindner25 · 07/25/2016, 04:55 AM

Did you say that you boiled your rock's in ro water? If you did, that's a good way to visit your local er.

lacybiker2000 · 07/25/2016, 06:06 PM

I agree that black outs do work on cyano...That's all I've ever had to use, but then again I pull my few small frags out and put in another tank so only fish, live rock, sand and invertebrates are in the DT affected. If I had a larger collection of corals I probably couldn't do a week without light.

Sly1461 · 07/29/2016, 07:40 AM

Hi all,

Thanks for all your help with this and for giving me a little bit of hope. So I killed the lights and covered the tank in towels with the skimmer running and left a gap on one side where the Watchman Goby sits so he had some light and something to "watch" The before and afters are attached.

Fingers crossed it stays like this! If so I can do another lights out? Another positive is my BTA is now on the front of the rock after 3 months chilling out of view.

lacybiker2000 · 07/29/2016, 05:46 PM

So glad this is working for you!

martinm878 · 08/06/2016, 10:12 AM

Im next for this. im struggling with the same thing, except in my 20 gal it only grows on the bottom sides of the tank and on two rocks that have are fairly new to the tank, im guessing that the rocks are leeching out phosphates.

Sk8r · 08/06/2016, 12:33 PM

Do the lights-out once a month---and have your skimmer in top form: that's how you get rid of the dieoff.

martinm878 · 08/13/2016, 09:11 AM

ok so i did the lights out for 3 days, covered up the tank. after the last day i turn the moon lights on to find no cyano anywhere. it was late at night so i went to bed and set the lights back on auto...woke up the next day and found some cyano on the same rocks from before. so i ended up going to my LF and picked up a mexican turbo snail and some blue legs...they did the job!

Defiant Arms · 08/13/2016, 09:13 AM

on another forum some guys are theorizing mangroves help idk the policy with linking other forums and all that jazz

Vadafallon · 08/13/2016, 10:48 AM

Lights out is a fish for a symptom not the problem. How old is your sand? Are you using crushed coral? Do you clean it? Do you blow off your rocks before water changes? I am battling this right now too. I just changed out all my sand and so far it seems to have gotten better but not completely gone yet.

Sk8r · 08/13/2016, 10:49 AM

THey help. Not as much as monthly 3-day lights-outs.

martinm878 · 08/13/2016, 10:54 AM

i use a power head to blow off he rocks and stir up the sand bed, my sand is maybe 2 yrs old. i used carib sea live sand...best bet is to get some mexican turbo snails and doing the lights out like sk8r said, monthly lights out should do the trick and adding a good amount of blue legs and snails. I didnt want to use red slime remover, used it on another tank i had, killed everything in the tank.

07/24/2016, 01:05 PM	#6
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	try the 3 day blackout (completely wrap the tank so NO light hits it).. Then siphon out what you can/whats left with a good water change after the 3 days.. Keep the skimmer on all the time.. It will go away in time as long as you keep after it.. I've also had good luck with red slime remover.. Just follow the directions exactly and repeat a few times.. __________________ Who me?

07/24/2016, 03:02 PM	#11
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Don't completely wrap the tank: this may let snails eat some of your sand-sleeping fish alive, pretty nasty way to go. Go on natural and room lights only. The lights-out part kills the bacterial sheet (cyano) and the skimmer uptakes the dead stuff and removes some of what makes it go. Using Chemiclean on a young tank is risky. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/06/2016, 12:33 PM	#20
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Do the lights-out once a month---and have your skimmer in top form: that's how you get rid of the dieoff. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/13/2016, 10:49 AM	#24
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	THey help. Not as much as monthly 3-day lights-outs. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/24/2016, 10:51 AM	#2
bmitchell138 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 84	Are you just seeing it just in that corner of the tank? Maybe play with your power heads and get some more flow in that area or add another power head to the tank. Just curious why you are only running your skimmer during the day?

07/24/2016, 12:48 PM	#4
NS Mike D Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 391	so one school of thought is to feed the bacteria that will combine Carbon, Nitrogen and Phosphorus before the algae and cyano can use it. Three menthols are vodka dosing, bio-pellets or NoPox (from Red Sea). The presence of carbon will encourage the bacteria to grow, locking up the C,N&P and then your skimmer should pull it out of the system. I have read where you want your NO3 at 1.5 - 2 ppm for coral growth and 0.25 for color. PO4 at 0.1 for growth and 0.02 for color. Do you have a refugium in your sum to grow macro algae which would compete with the cyano for nutrients?

07/24/2016, 12:57 PM	#5
1jwampler Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 139	+1 on run the skimmer 7/24 or at least at night. Cyano consumes CO2, all of your Algae has some die off at night, without light, this is why pH goes down at night (no photosynthesis) while O2 is still being consumed by your bacteria releasing CO2. The skimmer is one of the best mechanisms to aerate the water gassing off CO2 and hopefully getting closer to 21% O2. So, IMHO if you have to shutoff the skimmer the best time to do that is during the day, but, also remember if you have fish, they make more waste during the day, so have a good micron sock. Also consider cleaning the sand like you did, but, wrap up the tank and turn off the lights for a couple days after, Cyano, seems much more sensative to lack of light and CO2 than other Algaes. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

07/24/2016, 01:38 PM	#7
Sly1461 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 37	Thank you everyone for the response. That makes complete sense regarding the skimmer and I will start running it full time now. NS mike D - I don't have a sump currently, this is an upgrade I'm hoping to make in the future but limited on funds at the mo! 1jwampler and mcgyvr - if I do a 3 day blackout in the tank what effect does this have on the livestock and the coral? Do I still feed? So then directly after the 3 day black out siphon out all the sand and do a water change. Then I could do a Chemi clean treatment followed by another water change? Sounds more promising than anything I've done before. Let me know if this is safe to do with the clowns etc.

07/24/2016, 02:54 PM	#10
Sly1461 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 37	Thanks everyone. Will let you know how it goes. this was helpful also http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=lights+out

07/24/2016, 03:52 PM	#13
degibson84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 2,393	Ive tried everything from chemi clean to red slime remover. Tried microbe lift special blend to microbacter7. Now going to try aquavitro remediation. Blackouts do nothing to cyano as it doesn't need light to survive since it's not an algae.

07/25/2016, 04:55 AM	#15
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Did you say that you boiled your rock's in ro water? If you did, that's a good way to visit your local er.

07/25/2016, 06:06 PM	#16
lacybiker2000 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: East Texas and Houston Posts: 68	I agree that black outs do work on cyano...That's all I've ever had to use, but then again I pull my few small frags out and put in another tank so only fish, live rock, sand and invertebrates are in the DT affected. If I had a larger collection of corals I probably couldn't do a week without light.

07/29/2016, 05:46 PM	#18
lacybiker2000 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: East Texas and Houston Posts: 68	So glad this is working for you!

08/06/2016, 10:12 AM	#19
martinm878 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 26	Im next for this. im struggling with the same thing, except in my 20 gal it only grows on the bottom sides of the tank and on two rocks that have are fairly new to the tank, im guessing that the rocks are leeching out phosphates.

08/13/2016, 09:11 AM	#21
martinm878 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 26	ok so i did the lights out for 3 days, covered up the tank. after the last day i turn the moon lights on to find no cyano anywhere. it was late at night so i went to bed and set the lights back on auto...woke up the next day and found some cyano on the same rocks from before. so i ended up going to my LF and picked up a mexican turbo snail and some blue legs...they did the job!

08/13/2016, 09:13 AM	#22
Defiant Arms Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 39	on another forum some guys are theorizing mangroves help idk the policy with linking other forums and all that jazz

08/13/2016, 10:48 AM	#23
Vadafallon Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 974	Lights out is a fish for a symptom not the problem. How old is your sand? Are you using crushed coral? Do you clean it? Do you blow off your rocks before water changes? I am battling this right now too. I just changed out all my sand and so far it seems to have gotten better but not completely gone yet.

08/13/2016, 10:54 AM	#25
martinm878 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 26	i use a power head to blow off he rocks and stir up the sand bed, my sand is maybe 2 yrs old. i used carib sea live sand...best bet is to get some mexican turbo snails and doing the lights out like sk8r said, monthly lights out should do the trick and adding a good amount of blue legs and snails. I didnt want to use red slime remover, used it on another tank i had, killed everything in the tank.