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07/19/2010, 06:07 PM | #1 |
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Need help with cheap sump
I'm building a small sump 12x10x12" and i was hoping that i could get away with 1/4" plexiglass. or do i have to buy cast? If cast is the only way to go, what's the thinnest glass i'd be able to get away with?
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29 Gallon 20x13x15" Acrylic/Rimless, Coast2Coast overflow, Mag 5 return pump Current Tank Info: 40g Rimless Starfire Cube, external C2C Bean Animal Overflow |
07/19/2010, 06:31 PM | #2 |
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1/4" will probably bend and fail once you get water pressure on it.
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07/19/2010, 06:50 PM | #3 |
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To be very direct, and perhaps blunt, sumps should not run more than half full. With only about 3 gallons at half full, it is not really worth the investment to build it. The volume increase for the system, stability wise, will make no difference. Even filled to just overflowing, @ 6 gallons, it is insignificant. To get a stability increase, especially, with the 28: double the volume of the system. Some would argue that something is better than nothing, however, something that does nothing-- is the same as nothing.
Having said that, when building tanks it is not about "thinnest" that can be gotten away with, it is about safe. I am not an acrylic worker, or fan, but I believe 1/4" acrylic will be fine-- CAST, though some prefer extruded, cast is the better material to use-- and don't get it at home depot-- they do not stock "cast" acrylic, and what they do have is junk. For glass, 6mm (1/4" nominal) minimum, and again, home depot does not carry 6mm glass. By the time you buy the materials, etc., you could go to a store, and buy a 10 gallon tank, and not have to deal with it. Too small, still, for a practical sump, but a lot less hassle than building one. So as not to totally rain on your parade, you small project would be a great learning experience, rather than attempting a display tank. Throw a submersible pump in it, attach an external skimmer (no room inside.) But I think worrying over water evaporation dropping the water level, the pump sucking air and burning up, might keep you awake at night. The benefits are theoretical, but the REAL benefits, will not likely justify the cost. Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
07/19/2010, 06:56 PM | #4 |
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+1
Just Buy a 20 gal Min. At a yard sale or Craigs list for $10 Heck ten Gallons are free sometimes...
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"Quality only happens when you care enough to do your best." Current Tank Info: Small Ocean |
07/19/2010, 07:30 PM | #5 |
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I'm not worried about evaporation. I have an auto top off. I guess I will have to design a taller system to get what I'd like to achieve. I might be able to fit a 20 g tall. I'll have to look up the dimensions of the tank. The floor of the stand has a blue print of 20x12.75 and 30" of height.
20 gallon tall is too wide. i might just end up using some kind of bucket or rubbermaid container or i could use 2 10g and build a shelf.. hmm
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29 Gallon 20x13x15" Acrylic/Rimless, Coast2Coast overflow, Mag 5 return pump Current Tank Info: 40g Rimless Starfire Cube, external C2C Bean Animal Overflow |
07/19/2010, 07:41 PM | #6 |
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Nano sump I made... 12" deep, 11" tall, 18" in width. Made with 7/32" or almost .22 inches so not even 1/4" stuff. Filled it with water and ran it for a week to test for leaks. It didn't bow, explode or implode or disappear into a black hole. Holds my heater, chiller and a return pump so I don't have to have a powerhead in the nano or any other equipment for that matter. I don't consider it impractical at all.... but what do I know, I didn't ask anybody first before I built it. Just being direct and blunt I guess. Steve
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"I dunno, looks like Pepto Bismal blew up in there..." Mrs. glazer doesn't understand coraline. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon and 7 gallon nanos |
07/19/2010, 08:31 PM | #7 |
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Be sure to let us know how it is holding up two years from now.........
Big difference between "works" and "practical." Bigger difference between "theoretical" and "real." Please let us know the "real" benefits, a year or so down the road. But hey, we are a lot more alike than you think: I don't ask anyone before I do something either. I can't know anything either Alrighty then..... Regards
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
07/19/2010, 08:43 PM | #8 | |
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07/19/2010, 08:53 PM | #9 |
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Glazer, that is got to be one of the best examples of an "all-in-one" sump I have seen.
Give the volume of water that would be holding, the material seems more than adequate. Good job. |
07/19/2010, 10:32 PM | #10 | |
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Thanks milkman
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I've built about two dozen of these small sumps for clients now. Unfortunately most people don't keep nanos running all that long before they move up, move out or just plain get bored with it. I do know where seven of them are, and I do know of those the oldest still running is now almost eight years old. As far as practical, beneficial, I don't know what you are getting at. A ten gallon sump on 150 gallon tank.. yeah I would agree. Not worth the effort. On a small system, any added water volume is a benefit. Keeping all the equipment out of the main display..practical for not giving up the extra real estate and beneficial at least asthetically. I don't understand your comment either about sumps should only be ran half full. Why is that? As long as your return compartment/pump doesn't have access to more water than your display can hold before overflowing what would be the issue with how much water is in your sump? Evaporation and burning a pump up? Doesn't matter if your sump is five gallons or five hundred... ways to deal with that. ATOs, low level float switches, maintenance and upkeep, etc. Sump has to be twice the size volume wise of what it is servicing to be of any value? Well it would seem then that about eighty percent of the people here on RC are just wasting their time then. The OP said only later that the footprint of his stand is 20 by 12 3/4", how big a tank could be sitting on top of that anyway? Ten, fifteen gallons? I'm guessing... Can't be much and another five gallons in a sump sure isn't going to hurt anything. So, if I'm the only one that read your direct and blunt response as telling him his project/idea was worthless and a waste of time then I apologize for my direct and blunt response. Steve
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"I dunno, looks like Pepto Bismal blew up in there..." Mrs. glazer doesn't understand coraline. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon and 7 gallon nanos |
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07/20/2010, 12:15 AM | #11 | |||||||
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Though it sounded smart ***, document the benefits of this sump, and its longevity, you will be credited. I cannot however, use anecdotal information. Regards, Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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07/20/2010, 10:51 AM | #12 |
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Two tanks that will fit that footprint are a 15H and a 20XH. They both have the same footprint of a 10g and just are varying heights. I think the 20XH is almost 20" tall. I had the same problem with the inside the stand footpring on my last tank and used the 15H. I could keep about 10g of water in it and 5 for the overflow volume incase of a powerfailure. There is a calculator on RC that will let you know how much room you need to leave in your sump. I have used that recomendation before and it has been very accurate. I still leave and extra % just in case though.
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