N0P0x: N03 rising, P04 falling - Page 2

dubmaneh · 02/25/2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tew47

Are you running any carbon? I have always used a bag of Chemi pure elite in my systems and with neglecting water changes and using NoPox I don’t think iv seen nitrates over 5ppm in over a year - I have a 93 cube, sps dominate, 10 fish and use the chemi pure elite rated for 200 gallons

I use 75ml of Vertex ROX 0.8 carbon in a two little fish reactor changed weekly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobZilla04

Lately I've found myself on this boat as well, might need a ship if anyone else is gonna join.

LOL! Welcome to the club.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana Reefin

I had the same issue. I had much better success with vinegar.
I had 0 PO4 and up to 50 NO3
Now I am .02 PO4 and 2 NO3

When you switched did you maintain the same daily dose as the NOPOX?

Indiana Reefin · 02/25/2018, 08:55 PM

No I started at 3 ml and worked my way up to 10 ml for my 29 gallon.
Read over my thread. I got a lot of help
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2665009

thatoneazn · 02/25/2018, 09:15 PM

wanted to post something about this product as well.
Anybody have any luck with this product?
My sps have started to bleach and i lost some fish...
Anybody having success with this?
If so can you please share a pic and your story?

nozleman · 02/27/2018, 03:07 PM

I have been dosing this for 40 days and nothing!!! Nitrate is max on red sea 64ppm and checked with Salifert max on that too 100ppm! I am dosing 15ml a day and have a water volume of 130 to 140. Anybody know if I can increase the amount I dose! Yes I have a big skimmer and I am skimming wet! I did cut down feedings. Any suggestions

RobZilla04 · 02/27/2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozleman

I have been dosing this for 40 days and nothing!!! Nitrate is max on red sea 64ppm and checked with Salifert max on that too 100ppm! I am dosing 15ml a day and have a water volume of 130 to 140. Anybody know if I can increase the amount I dose! Yes I have a big skimmer and I am skimming wet! I did cut down feedings. Any suggestions

You need several large water changes if you want to cut them quickly. Dosing to get them down from that super elevated range is going to cause more harm than good.

bertoni · 02/27/2018, 06:59 PM

Water changes are one way to approach this problem, although the nitrate level will rise back up rapidly if there's an underlying problem. I would limit water changes to 15-20% to avoid possible issues with exposing live rock to air and other forms of shock, but they might help.

You can increase the dose, although I'd go slowly, maybe 20% more per week, and I'd back off if the tank showed any signs of bacterial growth like cloudy water or slimes on surfaces. I don't know how long it'll take to reduce the nitrate level if it's very high. You could try diluting the sample with 1 part tank water to 3 parts fresh saltwater and measuring the mix. That might give you some idea of the actual level.

dubmaneh · 02/27/2018, 09:12 PM

So the increased feedings (doubled the frozen feedings on two days) did increase P04 from around 0.064ppm (on 2/19) to 0.086ppm (on 2/21) which then dropped back to 0.077ppm (on 2/23). N03 was tested at the same time and remained around 5ppm on all tests.

Corals continued to look unhappy with my LPS closing up midway through the week, only to look better the next day.

Did a 10% WC on 2/24. Began to vacuum the sand bed and used a powerhead to blow off the rocks (both of which have not been done in....ahem....a little bit). Hardly anything coming off the rocks, but man my minimal sand bed is dirty! Definitely have to pay more regular attention to this as part of routine maintenance.

To top it all off, after I calibrated my NOPOX pump I forgot to put the dosing end back in the sump.

Didn't realize this until 2/26 when my tests came back with both N03 and P04 doubling in 2 days (N03 at 10ppm and P04 at 0.13ppm). Even after a 10% WC!

I'm going to say that the NOPOX is definitely doing its job and reducing both N03 and P04 but I fear I've let my tank become a Nitrate factory!

Not seeing any massive improvements in my corals but neither am I seeing any further deterioration so I guess thats a positive. I'm going to maintain the course for now and keep up with the feedings but also make sure to systematically clean the entire sanded. Guessing that with a few more regular cleanings I should start to see the NO3 drop a little faster compared to the P04.

dubmaneh · 03/09/2018, 09:37 PM

One week and one 10% water change later (syphoning DT sandbed) Nitrates continue to drop and so has the P04. I'm a little surprised at the low P04 as I've been feeding 2 cubes of frozen for the past few days (based on lack of almost any algae on the glass and general poor health of my LPS). Increased frozen feedings should increase phosphates over nitrates no?

N03 is 1-2.5ppm
P04 is 0.011ppm

Based on todays tests I've reduced the N0P0x dosage to 1.5ml/25Gal so as not to overshoot the low end of N03. Alk demand is either non-existent or very low as it is stable at 7.7dKh without any supplemental dosing.

Read somewhere that N0P0X degrades when mixed with RODI especially beyond a week. I have been mixing up a 10% solution of it a gallon at a time and refilling the dosing container. Given my dosing rate of 36ml-72ml/da it has been mixed for well over a month. Do you think this is a problem? Could it be contributing to the low P04 vs N03?

bertoni · 03/09/2018, 10:10 PM

I'd probably ditch the NOPox at this point. It's probably degraded a fair amount. I am not sure how effective it will be, although it shouldn't have any nitrate or fixed nitrogen in it.

dubmaneh · 03/10/2018, 07:06 AM

My dosing bottle is almost empty and my gallon of solution is done which is kind of what prompted me to look into the whole diluting thing.

I have a little bit of N0P0X left but was considering switching to vinegar (cheaper, seems a bit more forgiving and saves me a trip to the LFS).

Was going to try substituting 4ml vinegar for 1ml N0P0x, but given that I've been dosing a degraded N0P0X solution should I just start the vinegar as if I hadn't been dosing N0P0X?

bertoni · 03/10/2018, 02:37 PM

I'd probably go fairly cautiously with the dosing. The chart that most people use is very conservative, though, so you could go a bit more aggressively, if you'd like. I suspect that doubling the recommended dose would be fine.

02/27/2018, 06:59 PM	#31
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Water changes are one way to approach this problem, although the nitrate level will rise back up rapidly if there's an underlying problem. I would limit water changes to 15-20% to avoid possible issues with exposing live rock to air and other forms of shock, but they might help. You can increase the dose, although I'd go slowly, maybe 20% more per week, and I'd back off if the tank showed any signs of bacterial growth like cloudy water or slimes on surfaces. I don't know how long it'll take to reduce the nitrate level if it's very high. You could try diluting the sample with 1 part tank water to 3 parts fresh saltwater and measuring the mix. That might give you some idea of the actual level. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/09/2018, 10:10 PM	#34
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd probably ditch the NOPox at this point. It's probably degraded a fair amount. I am not sure how effective it will be, although it shouldn't have any nitrate or fixed nitrogen in it. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/10/2018, 02:37 PM	#36
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd probably go fairly cautiously with the dosing. The chart that most people use is very conservative, though, so you could go a bit more aggressively, if you'd like. I suspect that doubling the recommended dose would be fine. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/25/2018, 08:55 PM	#27
Indiana Reefin Garrett Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 847	No I started at 3 ml and worked my way up to 10 ml for my 29 gallon. Read over my thread. I got a lot of help http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2665009

02/25/2018, 09:15 PM	#28
thatoneazn Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 175	wanted to post something about this product as well. Anybody have any luck with this product? My sps have started to bleach and i lost some fish... Anybody having success with this? If so can you please share a pic and your story?

02/27/2018, 03:07 PM	#29
nozleman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Camarillo, ca Posts: 208	I have been dosing this for 40 days and nothing!!! Nitrate is max on red sea 64ppm and checked with Salifert max on that too 100ppm! I am dosing 15ml a day and have a water volume of 130 to 140. Anybody know if I can increase the amount I dose! Yes I have a big skimmer and I am skimming wet! I did cut down feedings. Any suggestions

02/27/2018, 09:12 PM	#32
dubmaneh Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 271	So the increased feedings (doubled the frozen feedings on two days) did increase P04 from around 0.064ppm (on 2/19) to 0.086ppm (on 2/21) which then dropped back to 0.077ppm (on 2/23). N03 was tested at the same time and remained around 5ppm on all tests. Corals continued to look unhappy with my LPS closing up midway through the week, only to look better the next day. Did a 10% WC on 2/24. Began to vacuum the sand bed and used a powerhead to blow off the rocks (both of which have not been done in....ahem....a little bit). Hardly anything coming off the rocks, but man my minimal sand bed is dirty! Definitely have to pay more regular attention to this as part of routine maintenance. To top it all off, after I calibrated my NOPOX pump I forgot to put the dosing end back in the sump. Didn't realize this until 2/26 when my tests came back with both N03 and P04 doubling in 2 days (N03 at 10ppm and P04 at 0.13ppm). Even after a 10% WC! I'm going to say that the NOPOX is definitely doing its job and reducing both N03 and P04 but I fear I've let my tank become a Nitrate factory! Not seeing any massive improvements in my corals but neither am I seeing any further deterioration so I guess thats a positive. I'm going to maintain the course for now and keep up with the feedings but also make sure to systematically clean the entire sanded. Guessing that with a few more regular cleanings I should start to see the NO3 drop a little faster compared to the P04.

03/09/2018, 09:37 PM	#33
dubmaneh Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 271	One week and one 10% water change later (syphoning DT sandbed) Nitrates continue to drop and so has the P04. I'm a little surprised at the low P04 as I've been feeding 2 cubes of frozen for the past few days (based on lack of almost any algae on the glass and general poor health of my LPS). Increased frozen feedings should increase phosphates over nitrates no? N03 is 1-2.5ppm P04 is 0.011ppm Based on todays tests I've reduced the N0P0x dosage to 1.5ml/25Gal so as not to overshoot the low end of N03. Alk demand is either non-existent or very low as it is stable at 7.7dKh without any supplemental dosing. Read somewhere that N0P0X degrades when mixed with RODI especially beyond a week. I have been mixing up a 10% solution of it a gallon at a time and refilling the dosing container. Given my dosing rate of 36ml-72ml/da it has been mixed for well over a month. Do you think this is a problem? Could it be contributing to the low P04 vs N03?

03/10/2018, 07:06 AM	#35
dubmaneh Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 271	My dosing bottle is almost empty and my gallon of solution is done which is kind of what prompted me to look into the whole diluting thing. I have a little bit of N0P0X left but was considering switching to vinegar (cheaper, seems a bit more forgiving and saves me a trip to the LFS). Was going to try substituting 4ml vinegar for 1ml N0P0x, but given that I've been dosing a degraded N0P0X solution should I just start the vinegar as if I hadn't been dosing N0P0X?