So tired of ICH! Fallow 4 months no Fish!

[jbird0420]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this. I have been dealing with ich the past year. I removed all my fish from my DT back in July. Lost all but one tang. I had the tang in qt and the tank fishless (fallow) from July to Mid November no fish. Just LR, coral and inverts. That's it. I even tore the DT down end of October to refinish the tank due to bad scratches on the acrylic. So no fish at all. After a period of 112 days of no fish in the tank and treating the tang during that time in QT with Copper and Prazi Pro. No spots at all during the time of QT not one spot. After 3 days of releasing him into my DT he gets ich and is now badly covered. Please guys for the love of god how does ich survive a fishless tank for almost 4 months????? I'm tired of this ICH S%^&!! Ready to sell off all my coral and inverts. Do a Fish Only and kill it all the ich with copper. I love having a coral tank but I will say having a fallow tank did not work. There has to be a certain strain of ICH that can remain alive without a host. I'm living proof fallow did not work. I don't know how it works for everyone else. Again no fish in the DT for 4 months while the tang was in QT separate tank the whole duration treated with copper and prazi....

[Dmorty217]

How long was the fish in copper in the QT? 4 months?? There have been reports of tanks being fallow for longer than 72 days and the ich remained dormant. There is a growing number of people that feel fallow periods are useless

[jbird0420]

Dmorty, I would have to agree with you. I think certain strains of ich can last longer than 4 months, perhaps maybe even as long as a year. Yea, it's a Powder Blue Tang. 4 months QT with copper and prazi.

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

How long was the fish in copper in the QT? 4 months?? There have been reports of tanks being fallow for longer than 72 days and the ich remained dormant. There is a growing number of people that feel fallow periods are useless

[jbird0420]

I know there is no true ich eradication in a reef tank unless you copper treat the whole tank. Guys, what are your thoughts on either Prohibit Levamisole Soluble Drench or Polylab Medic? I'm desperate now to find a remedy.

[BlueMoods]

Tang = UV sterilizer needed IMHO. They seem to get ich if someone so much as sneezes near the tank with out one. )not literally but, they do get it very easily.)

I'd get a sterilizer on that tank for the next 90 days or longer, at least, then 20-30 mins per day of it being on after that.

[pfan151]

I’d pull the corals/inverts to a QT tank and run the display at hypo salinity for a couple months. Remove all the corals from their plugs or rocks and attach them to a sterile base. Fish can handle being at hypo levels fine for as long as you want to go. After this experience I’d go as long as you can.

[jbird0420]

Ain't that the truth. lol
I had a UV on the tank. I have mixed feelings about it. UV was on the tank initially when this all went down earlier this year. I took it off line.

Originally Posted by BlueMoods

Tang = UV sterilizer needed IMHO. They seem to get ich if someone so much as sneezes near the tank with out one. )not literally but, they do get it very easily.)

I'd get a sterilizer on that tank for the next 90 days or longer, at least, then 20-30 mins per day of it being on after that.

[jbird0420]

I have a feeling the ich is living inside the LR and within the corals. After leaving the tank fallow for those 4 months. I believe this shi! likes to hide until a host comes along.

Originally Posted by pfan151

I’d pull the corals/inverts to a QT tank and run the display at hypo salinity for a couple months. Remove all the corals from their plugs or rocks and attach them to a sterile base. Fish can handle being at hypo levels fine for as long as you want to go. After this experience I’d go as long as you can.

[Dmorty217]

I would say no to the Polylab Medic, don't know anything about the other product. I would suggest vitamin enriching food with several products to help boost immune systems. UV is a joke for anything other than water clarity and one with enough watts to kill Ich or velvet will heat the tank up significantly.

[scuzy]

Any new addition while tank is fallow like new corals?


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[jbird0420]

Nothing! Since ich can transfer in from livestock

Originally Posted by scuzy

Any new addition while tank is fallow like new corals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jdub968]

Let's get a bit more info, what type of copper was used? what test kit was used? What level was cu maintained at and never went below?

[jbird0420]

Coppersafe with API Copper test kit. I kept the copper levels around .25ppm, maybe a tad under. I put the tang back into the QT yesterday with copper. This am he still has ich. Wouldn't the copper kill the ich that's on him by now in QT 24 hrs later?

Originally Posted by Jdub968

Let's get a bit more info, what type of copper was used? what test kit was used? What level was cu maintained at and never went below?

[Jdub968]

Ok that's your problem !! Coppersafe needs to be dosed at 1.5-2.0 ppm to kill ick I know the bottle says .15-.2 ppm but it's wrong. Chelated cu and API test kit is correct. Also the cu will not kill the ick on the fish it is only effective when the ick is in its free swimming stage.

[Jdub968]

So in a nut shell the tank fallow period was effective, what happened was the low dose of cu in the qt suppressed the ick it was managing it but not killing it. Keep in mind the ick will live in the gills of a fish and continue its life cycle and you may not notice any spots on the fish that's why it's important to watch the fish for flashing and scratching or heavy breathing these are the signs that a parasite is present, you can't assume the fish is parasite free because of no white spots. Once you removed the fish from the cu and placed it back into the DT it was able to attach the fish in greater numbers

[SAT]

Did you keep the fish in copper for the whole time it was in quarantine, or did you remove the copper before transferring to the DT? The reason I ask is that most treatments can assure the fish is free of parasites after about 12 days, but don't kill any cysts in the treatment tank.

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by SAT

Did you keep the fish in copper for the whole time it was in quarantine, or did you remove the copper before transferring to the DT? The reason I ask is that most treatments can assure the fish is free of parasites after about 12 days, but don't kill any cysts in the treatment tank.

It was done for the whole 4 months the fish was out of the DT is what I gathered. What was not done is taking the copper out of the QT and then observing the fish unfortunately.

[jbird0420]

Hi guys, Thanks for all the replies. Yes I kept the QT tank dosed with Coppersafe for 4 months @ .25 ppm along with prazi pro. I did not notice any white spots, flashing, scratching against rocks or erratic behavior from the tang during the 4 month period.

Is it really possible for ich to withstand Coppersafe treatment @ .25ppm for that whole 4 month time? I would imagine it would die off eventually.

[jbird0420]

Oh man I hope not. I was going by what the bottle said would be effective at a therapeutic levels.

Originally Posted by Jdub968

Ok that's your problem !! Coppersafe needs to be dosed at 1.5-2.0 ppm to kill ick I know the bottle says .15-.2 ppm but it's wrong. Chelated cu and API test kit is correct. Also the cu will not kill the ick on the fish it is only effective when the ick is in its free swimming stage.

[SAT]

The idea that Cryptocaryon could go 4 months without a host is pretty scary.

It's either that or it can reproduce in 0.25ppm chelated copper. That might be more believable.

[Jdub968]

Originally Posted by jbird0420

Hi guys, Thanks for all the replies. Yes I kept the QT tank dosed with Coppersafe for 4 months @ .25 ppm along with prazi pro. I did not notice any white spots, flashing, scratching against rocks or erratic behavior from the tang during the 4 month period.

Is it really possible for ich to withstand Coppersafe treatment @ .25ppm for that whole 4 month time? I would imagine it would die off eventually.

Yes not only is possible it did it in your tank. There's no studies showing ick can remain dormant for longer than than 72 days.

[Jdub968]

Let me elaborate a bit more with the other concerns. When you broke your tank down a lot of the things in it dried out this also kills ick. 4 months with no host = dead ick. The coppersafe bottle is wrong chelated cu is therapeutic at 1.5 ppm.
What happens is coppersafe at .25 ppm like you had it will probably kill some or a lot of the ick but it only takes one trophont to make it to a host and that one will become a 100.
Here's the protocal to fallow to be successful this time. Dose coppersafe at 1.5-2 ppm maintain it for 30 days, have another qt set up and ready to go a few days before you reach 30. Have it at least 10 feet away from your currant qt to prevent aerosol cross contamination , at day 31 catch the fish and place it in the new tank break down the old qt and clean it with and all it components with bleach or vinagar then allow it to completely dry for a min of 24 hrs this will sterilize it. Back to your fish observe it in the new qt for at least 2 weeks 3's better during this time you can treat it with prazipro if needed. If there is no signs after 2-3 weeks the fish is good to go, however in your case you have ick in your DT again it will need 76 day fallow period. During this fallow period if the is no inverts in the tank you can run hyposalinity as apiece of mind or turn the temp up to 85 f and this will help speed up the life cycle of the ick. The last thing make sure to check cu levels daily at min and dose your water prior to doing wc's. Hope this helps good luck.

[jbird0420]

Hey, thanks for the advice and help. I'm gonna look into this and start over again. Sucks! But thanks!

Originally Posted by Jdub968

Let me elaborate a bit more with the other concerns. When you broke your tank down a lot of the things in it dried out this also kills ick. 4 months with no host = dead ick. The coppersafe bottle is wrong chelated cu is therapeutic at 1.5 ppm.
What happens is coppersafe at .25 ppm like you had it will probably kill some or a lot of the ick but it only takes one trophont to make it to a host and that one will become a 100.
Here's the protocal to fallow to be successful this time. Dose coppersafe at 1.5-2 ppm maintain it for 30 days, have another qt set up and ready to go a few days before you reach 30. Have it at least 10 feet away from your currant qt to prevent aerosol cross contamination , at day 31 catch the fish and place it in the new tank break down the old qt and clean it with and all it components with bleach or vinagar then allow it to completely dry for a min of 24 hrs this will sterilize it. Back to your fish observe it in the new qt for at least 2 weeks 3's better during this time you can treat it with prazipro if needed. If there is no signs after 2-3 weeks the fish is good to go, however in your case you have ick in your DT again it will need 76 day fallow period. During this fallow period if the is no inverts in the tank you can run hyposalinity as apiece of mind or turn the temp up to 85 f and this will help speed up the life cycle of the ick. The last thing make sure to check cu levels daily at min and dose your water prior to doing wc's. Hope this helps good luck.

[jbird0420]

It may have hide out in the gill of the tang for that 4 month duration. I'm surprised it made it through the little bit of copper in the tank.

Originally Posted by SAT

The idea that Cryptocaryon could go 4 months without a host is pretty scary.

It's either that or it can reproduce in 0.25ppm chelated copper. That might be more believable.

[Jdub968]

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