Randy's vinegar dosing limit. I found it!

[the meadows]

Can you stop dosing vinegar cold turkey or do you need to gradually stop over a period of time? What would or does happen when you stop dosing? Thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think you can stop cold turkey, but if the bacteria die off over a week or two you might see a rise in nutrients.

[AcroSteph]

Randy,

Is there a massive difference in the dosing amounts that I should be aware of between 5% and 7% vinegar?

I'm horrible with math when it comes to conversions of mL, Gallons and %'s..

I was hoping I could stick pretty close to the numbers on this chart for dosing..



My system is between the 200 and 250G range (I'd say 225G total volume) and I've been dosing 7% at the 200G recommended doses (6ml and 12ml for the respective week1 time frames).

Thanks

[bertoni]

To match the chart, you would need to dose about 30% less of the 7% vinegar. Using the 150g amount instead of the 200g amount would be close enough, IMO.

[Ryan2428]

I suck at math wish 75 gallon was on there lol. But wait for my smart 16 year old daughter to figure it out for me lol

[swk]

So I am down to 29 ml a day from 56. Nutrients are still VERY low. Nitrate is .25 and po4 is .02

Slight increase in algae growth is the only side effect of dropping the dose that could be considered a negative. Otherwise, corals have begun to color back up and the more fragile ones are goners I believe, but I consider it a lesson learned.

[bertoni]

That sounds like good progress!

[swk]

Oh btw - I also pulled all gfo to see if it's really needed. Before I started vinegar dosing it was
.04-.06 or so. Thinking it may be redundant at this point, but I figure I should know in a week. I figure why use it if po4 stays at .06 or under without it?

Seem reasonable?

[bertoni]

I might back off slowly, rather than make a big change, but either approach seems reasonable to try.

[swk]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I might back off slowly, rather than make a big change, but either approach seems reasonable to try.

My logic in just pulling it was that po4 was low, under .06 before carbon dosing, usually around .04 and this was also before using GFO.

I'll test midweek as I just did a small water change and pulled the gfo on Saturday. I'll report back.

In the forums opinion, how high is high enough to justify going back to gfo? Tank is sps based if that makes a difference

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I never measure phosphate, and use GFO as one of many phosphate export methods, I'd personally use GFO if phosphate rose above 0.03 ppm.

[swk]

Thanks again fellas

[swk]

Happy to report that po4 has not risen much since the removal of gfo.

However on a side note, since I have begun dropping the vinegar dose in an effort to increase nutrients in my tank, this has started growing on the back wall of my tank. I'm freaking out that it's Dino's. What do you guys think?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1406394740.312571.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1406394749.146174.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1406394757.179088.jpg

Note the closed zoa polyp in the front. Here's a pic that is not mine that looks similar to what I'm experiencing, minus any air bubbles. On the thread this pic came from, they concluded some sort of diatoms. This tank is fairly young, as it was a transfer
from a 40 gal

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1406394865.012638.jpg

Thanks guys

[bertoni]

I don't think that diatoms form stringy masses like that. I would guess something else, but there's a lot of possibilities. Dinoflagellates is a reasonable guess.

[swk]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I don't think that diatoms form stringy masses like that. I would guess something else, but there's a lot of possibilities. Dinoflagellates is a reasonable guess.

Didn't sound right to me either. Wishful thinking perhaps....

Hoping it's nothing major and just a phase for the tank. I upped the vinegar dose by 5 ml and will monitor closely and see how things go for the next week.

[bertoni]

That sounds like a reasonable plan to me.

[swk]

Diagnosed as Dino's IMO. I am without a microscope, so I can't be certain, but it certainly looks and acts the part. I believe I changed too many nutrient reduction methods at once. Cutting vinegar in half over a couple weeks, plus removing gfo in the last week or so, when this stuff popped up.

I have replaced the gfo and will try again slowly once the tank has been running on the new, lower vinegar dose for another couple of months.

Lesson learned

[GTR]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

IMO, those chart doses are low and ramp up unnecessarily slowly.

I'm only on week three and have been using the chart linked in this thread.
I've seen nothing at all, good or bad. The system is about 1,400 gallons water volume with a very heavy invertebrate load. I'm not aiming for zero, I'm aiming for a level that doesn't exceed the highest level on the test kit.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Let us know how it turns out.

[iceet]

Originally Posted by GTR

I'm only on week three and have been using the chart linked in this thread.
I've seen nothing at all, good or bad. The system is about 1,400 gallons water volume with a very heavy invertebrate load. I'm not aiming for zero, I'm aiming for a level that doesn't exceed the highest level on the test kit.

1400 gallons is pretty hefty my friend

[markalot]

Question on Vinegar added to Kalk and vinegar dosing.

Nitrates 10
Phosphate .25 (it was worse) Salifert high resolution

I have a 150 gallon tank, I need to reduce nitrates and phosphates and I'd rather not run GFO or any phosphate reducing media. Right now I topoff with Kalk and have a fairly low evaporation rate, somewhat less than a gallon a day.

I'm adding 45ml of vinegar per gallon of Kalk to increase saturation, which is keeping my Alk steady at 9 KH for the moment. If I increase the amount of vinegar in the Kalk above 45ml / gallon will it also increase the Kalk saturation, or is 45ml / gallon the top limit as far as effectiveness?

In short I believe I need to be dosing more than 45ml of vinegar a day to see if that helps control nitrates and brings phosphates down a bit. Obviously I need to measure just how much topoff I'm adding a day in order to be more exact here.

Thanks!

[bertoni]

If you add more vinegar, then the water will be able to dissolve more Kalk, but you'd just need to add the exact amount of lime needed for your tank's calcium and alkalinity needs. Vinegar doesn't contain any alkalinity or calcium, except possibly as trace contaminants.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose both vinegar and limewater, but I choose to dose them separately to better control them.

[markalot]

Thanks both for the answers. I am currently at 3tbsp per gallon and I am assuming once my phosphate problem fades alk usage will pick up which will require more Kalk. I'm hoping I can come up with a balance of vinegar and kalk and minimize two part usage. It's been nice having the doser off for the last two weeks. Brown acros ... not so nice.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by swk

Diagnosed as Dino's IMO. I am without a microscope, so I can't be certain, but it certainly looks and acts the part. I believe I changed too many nutrient reduction methods at once. Cutting vinegar in half over a couple weeks, plus removing gfo in the last week or so, when this stuff popped up.

I have replaced the gfo and will try again slowly once the tank has been running on the new, lower vinegar dose for another couple of months.

Lesson learned

Could be bryopsis . Wouldn't hurt to bring up your mag level to 1600 using Kent Tech-M