Kessil A350

[Nanook]

I understand that sentiment, but the thread turned into a thread about the light fixture...how couldn't it really? We try to keep the SPS Forum about the corals, not the equipment.

[Prochef176]

Not really impressed with the pictures on this thread....go ahead light me up for it....

[chad p]

Not going to light you up but have you posted pictures on this forum? I have and they always look more dull, less colorful, usually more blue and generally darker and cruddier. I think that the photos are helpful for showing the coverage but that's about it.

[jerpa]

Originally Posted by chad p

Not going to light you up but have you posted pictures on this forum? I have and they always look more dull, less colorful, usually more blue and generally darker and cruddier. I think that the photos are helpful for showing the coverage but that's about it.

+1
If you base your lighting decisions based on internet pictures you are bound to be disappointed. I haven't seen one tank that looked the same in person as it did in online pictures. Even spread can be deceiving although it's less so than color.

[Prochef176]

Yes and I agree that it is difficult to get a great representation of lighting. However after reading all of the anticipation for these and how a good amount of people thought this would be a game changer, seeing the snapshots have been kind of a let down. And I am not at all being critical of the members shots/tanks/setups. And I wouldnt buy any of the high end lighting without seeing some in person.

[inktomi]

I got an A350W as a gift, and I have to say that it's a lot less light than my eight bulb t5 power module. I need to buy at least one more before I can do the tank conversion, but I'm wondering...

My tank is two feet by two feet by five feet and has a mixture of sps, lps, and soft corals throughout. Are two A350W really enough? Or should I use this wide in the middle and put two A350 to either end of the tank?

It's very bright, but it's not the blinding bright power module I'm used to for the past several years. Is it really enough over a two foot deep and two foot wide tank?

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[jerpa]

These are supposed to effectively replace one 250W MH. I wouldn't expect one to be as bright as an 8 bulb T5 fixture. I think two wides would be sufficient but it will not be the tank-filling light you are used too with your current fixture.

[inktomi]

The power module is too much really. I'm looking forward to my kessil adventure. I'll start with two wides and I can always add a third if needed. It's just surprisingly less light than what we're used to with the melt your face power module.

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[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by jerpa

These are supposed to effectively replace one 250W MH. I wouldn't expect one to be as bright as an 8 bulb T5 fixture. I think two wides would be sufficient but it will not be the tank-filling light you are used too with your current fixture.

They are the equivalent of a 450 Watt halide, not a 250.

[jerpa]

I would never advise someone that one of these could almost replace 2x250W metal halides. I think expecting that efficiency is a bit much. Even going by Kessils naming of the light they may try to say 350 watts although they do not like to give a comparable number to MH lights. I can't say I blame them based on the great number of variables in each lighting setup. For light demanding corals they recommend one A350w for each 2x2 section up to 24" of depth. Deeper than that and they recommend the narrow lens but you do sacrifice some coverage.

[inktomi]

Originally Posted by jerpa

For light demanding corals they recommend one A350w for each 2x2 section up to 24" of depth. Deeper than that and they recommend the narrow lens but you do sacrifice some coverage.

Very interesting. That's what I've been looking for! I'll be ordering a second A350w and have softies in the center dimmer area.

Thanks!

[mike&kel]

I have the same size 5'x2'x2' tank. I have talked to several others who run Kessils on the same size tanks. Honestly, I would call Kessil. I did before I bought the 4 a150w lights I am running now. They are knowledgable and helpful. Just a quick phone call or email away.

[Hype134]

I have a 120 (4x2x2), and running 2x250 MH and 4 PCs. From what i've read, these still arent getting the same performance as the MH. That being said, would it be advisable to use one A350W as a supplement? or even two A150s? I'm not looking to cut back on the heat but looking to cut some of the electricity a bit... doesnt need to be all but some is better than none. So i was considering keeping the MH and then using the kessils as suppliments. What would be the best combination? or is it even advisable?

[maxxII]

Is your tank running with a sandbed?
I'm an A350W in place of a single 250w Phoenix 14K SE bulb over my frag tank.
Based on what I've seen over the month I've been using it, I would state that it will absolutely replace a 250w MH. It wont match the PAR numbers of an Iwasaki or XM 10K on an HQI ballast, but it will most certainly match a Phoenix 14K powered by an E Ballast.

Nick

[Hype134]

I do have a sandbed... its not a DSB though. I am running 2x250 Phoenix 14k at the moment with lumatek ballasts. I do have SPS in at the moment and will be SPS dominated so i want to be sure there is plenty of light...

[maxxII]

I think you'll be fine with it. I dont think you're going to get super SPS growth down on the sandbed, but with sand there (on the bottom), you arent running the water movement at good levels for SPS anyway, so its a moot point.

If you're really concerned about it, I'd try the A350W's and if they're not enough, then add a pair of A350's for the extra punch to the bottom.

At that point, you'll have spent more than a pair of Radion's would run you...so there is that to consider.

I know this is a thread about Kessil A350's, but I have a pair of Radion's over my 120 SPS/Anemone Reef and they replaced a pair of Phoenix 14K SE's run by an HQI ballast.

I'm running them at 80% intensity level with the color setting at 12k which is very, very close to the color of the Phoenix bulbs. My H.magnifica anemones have not moved and if the intensity of the light had decreased, they would have.

One thing to note, the Kessil A350 light at 100% on both channels is bluer than the Phoenix bulbs, and looks to my eye to be closer to the coloration of a Hamilton 14K than anything else.

Nick

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by that Fish Guy

They are the equivalent of a 450 Watt halide, not a 250.

This is just simply not true, and it is statements like this that made me set my expectations too high and resulted in my general disappointment with the output of the Kessil. Have you ever actually seen a Kessil 350, or a 400W halide for that matter? It absolutely pales in comparison to a 400W MH...

In my opinion even calling it equivalent to a 250 is a long stretch. To be clear, all 250W halides are certainly not created equal. I was using DE 250W Phoenix 14k bulbs on Bluewave HQI ballasts. Based on both my PAR measurements and just simple visual comparison it falls short of my prior 250W halide setup.

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by Hype134

I have a 120 (4x2x2), and running 2x250 MH and 4 PCs. From what i've read, these still arent getting the same performance as the MH. That being said, would it be advisable to use one A350W as a supplement? or even two A150s? I'm not looking to cut back on the heat but looking to cut some of the electricity a bit... doesnt need to be all but some is better than none. So i was considering keeping the MH and then using the kessils as suppliments. What would be the best combination? or is it even advisable?

My suggestion is that 1 wouldn't work too well as a supplement since it wouldn't evenly cover the whole tank, and aesthetically would look out of place. I would consider using a high output 48" LED striplight or two to replace your PC lights.

If you really like the Kessils maybe consider tossing the PC's and use 3x Kessil 150s with the halides in between them so it is evenly spread.

The smartest answer would be to just keep what you have now since it sounds adequate for now. Save your cash and fully make the switch to LEDs in a year or two when you can afford it and even brighter & better fixtures will be available.

[chucko]

Ive currently got a 4bulb T5 fixture and we'ev decided to get a canopy which means new lights as well. What should I expect in terms of brightness/color/growth when going from the current light to 2 a350w's?

[Hype134]

The smartest answer would be to just keep what you have now since it sounds adequate for now. Save your cash and fully make the switch to LEDs in a year or two when you can afford it and even brighter & better fixtures will be available.

Good call... plan on moving in 2 years (out of a rental) so maybe that will be a good time to do so... Thanks for the advice.

[jerpa]

Originally Posted by Aimforever

This is just simply not true, and it is statements like this that made me set my expectations too high and resulted in my general disappointment with the output of the Kessil. Have you ever actually seen a Kessil 350, or a 400W halide for that matter? It absolutely pales in comparison to a 400W MH...

In my opinion even calling it equivalent to a 250 is a long stretch. To be clear, all 250W halides are certainly not created equal. I was using DE 250W Phoenix 14k bulbs on Bluewave HQI ballasts. Based on both my PAR measurements and just simple visual comparison it falls short of my prior 250W halide setup.

I agree with you to a point. The Kessil is not as visually bright as a 250W MH, it is supposed to grow coral effectively over the same areas/depth a good 250W MH setup would. I havent had the new one long enough to verify this but my Kessil A150 replaced a 150W 10k metal halide with 2x65W PC actinic supplements. It didn't look as bright but growth was identical and I thought it improved the colors.

I would argue that comparing par numbers between LEDs and MH are apples to oranges. We already know blue is greatly underrepresented by the Apogee meter and part of the selling point of LEDs is that we are getting more useable PAR by focusing on specific wavelengths conducive to growth and color. This is part of the reason LEDs appear dimmer while frying peoples corals. Speaking from experience I have gotten decent growth from several Montipora in an area of my tank that received less than 50 PAR from the Kessil A150.

[joelespinoza]

Originally Posted by jerpa

I would argue that comparing par numbers between LEDs and MH are apples to oranges. We already know blue is greatly underrepresented by the Apogee meter and part of the selling point of LEDs is that we are getting more useable PAR by focusing on specific wavelengths conducive to growth and color. This is part of the reason LEDs appear dimmer while frying peoples corals. Speaking from experience I have gotten decent growth from several Montipora in an area of my tank that received less than 50 PAR from the Kessil A150.

This^

For as long as reef tanks have been in existance the thing to strive for is more light. As long as you can keep the temp down and can afford the electric bill keep keep that sucker as bright as you can.

Now with LEDs thats not actually the case, especially with modular setups. So you are not sure if 1 will get it done, so what? Have the money in the bank for 2, but buy only 1 and try it out.

You can fry a coral in a couple hours with too much light, but how long is it going to take to harm a healthy coral if it is getting 50-75% of what it needs for good growth? The answer to that most usually is quite a while. Start low, and see how the corals respond, if in a couple days they all look good, give it a couple weeks and see how growth is.

Its totally contrary to Reef Lighting mentality, but with LED lighting, often less is more.

That being said, I think my DIY light is comming apart soon to have the optics removed and some LEDs taken out.

[Toadally]

Here lately I've been rethinking the whole thing about how much light. It's my thinking that you can have too much light, of course depending on the animals you're trying to keep. I'm currently running a fixture over my 57 Illuminata with 2 x 250 and 2 x 39 watt T5's. I'm going to down grade to 2 x 150's soon. My tank is all SPS and the colors have paled and growth has all but stopped. Now I'm sure there will be some people that will disagree and say that there are too many variables to pin the problem on lighting. But nothing has really changed since I went from an ATI Sunpower to MH. One thing that got me thinking in this direction is that I cut the lighting period by three hours and my coral has started to show better colors. I guess time will tell.

[Nanook]

Don't forget that it sometimes takes a few months for corals to adjust to major changes like lighting.

[inktomi]

Here is a shot of my 150 gallon with two A350Ws that I installed last night. They seem to give good coverage! They are each centered above the tank front - to - back, and 15" in from each end (60" tank length). That gives a 30" space between the two lights, and they seem to have no dead spots with that arrangement.

They are approximately 7 or 8 inches above the water level.





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