How to avoid Phytoplankton crashes - Page 5

rayjay · 12/20/2006, 04:13 PM

I have tried to start cultures from discs from FAF and failed each time, but left the bottles running and ended up with a green algae eventually starting, even though the disc was iso in one case.
I bought some live nannochloropsis, used that as a starter, and the same thing happened with that starter as well.
This live nanno I added an equal qty of sterilized water to and added the F2 and put it under lights. The culture faded and turned a little "whitish" and then started to green up again.
It went very dark in color but the color has a blue tint to it, unlike the original nanno concentrate before and after dilution.
This same blue tinted green algae is what has grown from the FAF discs I purchased, 1 nannochloropsis, 1 iso, and another motile one I forget the name of just at the moment.
Whatever it is, it grows well, and I have many 26g Rubbermaid containers of it growing, each under a 75 watt GE spot light.
Maybe someone knows what kind of algae is likely to grow in a container after the original culture crashes.

miska · 12/21/2006, 06:49 PM

There is a metod to sterilise the fito from bacteria and ciliates: double the sea salt for 2 days than dilute to the normal level and keep sterile .this is described at : www.plancton-shop.de

rayjay · 12/22/2006, 10:56 AM

All the culture discs I used from Florida Aqua Farms are sterile but it still didn't work for me.
Also, your link doesn't work for me either.

GreshamH · 12/22/2006, 11:50 AM

Seeing how phyto was spelt (fito) I assumed the URL was wrong, here's the right one:

http://www.plankton-shop.de/

melev · 12/22/2006, 01:47 PM

For our german friends...http://www.plankton-shop.de/assets/o...ranleitung.pdf

joanxavier · 12/22/2006, 06:08 PM

Hola a todos
No me expreso bien en inglÃ©s, pero si comprendo lo que se escribe. Agradeceria que alguien traduciera mi escrito.
Os muestro unas imagenes de mi visita a una empresa para la producciÃ³n industrial de fitoplancton, situada en Cadiz (EspaÃ±a)

La producciÃ³n empieza con unas cepas selecionadas de la especie que se va a cultivar. En este caso concreto se trata de Nannochloropsis gaditana.
En esta foto podeis ver los inÃ³culos para el cultivo

Estos cilindros son inoculados con las cepas. Podeis observar el color verde claro que indica una baja concentraciÃ³n de fitoplancton

DespuÃ©s de 7 dias aproximadamente, llegan a su mÃ¡xima concentraciÃ³n. Se aprecia claramente el color verde oscuro de los cilindros.

Con los cilindros al mÃ¡ximo de concentraciÃ³n, se inoculan los biorreactores de 6000 litros de capacidad

Una semana mÃ¡s tarde el cultivo estÃ¡ completado, y listo para su comercializaciÃ³n.

Os explico algunos detalles para la producciÃ³n de fitoplancton, que son muy interesantes para tener exito en el cultivo.
La iluminaciÃ³n del cultivo se realiza con tubos fluorescentes Sylvania Aquastar 10000 ÂºK. El fotoperiodo es de 24 h.
El fertilizante es producido por ellos, en base a una formuacion tipo Medio Walne. Se utiliza 1 ml. diario de fertilizante para 1L. de cultivo.
Los cultivos se suelen perder al llegar a su mÃ¡xima concentraciÃ³n. Esto es provocado por el Co2, que causa una dramatica caida del PH.
Para la esterilizaciÃ³n de los recipientes, se utiliza una mezcla de hipoclorito sodico y agua (150 ml hipoclorito / 850 ml. de agua). Esta mezcla se deja actuar durante 24 h.
Despues se enjuaga con agua
Se llenan otra vez los recipientes con una mezcla de acido clorhidrico de uso domestico (100 ml acido/ 900 ml de agua). Esta mezcla de deja actuar durante 6 h. para neutralizar cualquier resto de hipoclorito.
Se vuelve a enjuagar con agua, y ya estÃ¡ listo para ser usado.

Os muestro unas fotos de mi biorreactor DIY para fitoplancton y rotÃ*feros. Los cilindros mÃ¡s cortos son para el cultivo de rotÃ*fero, el mÃ¡s alto, para fitoplancton.

Feliz Navidad

antonsemrad · 12/22/2006, 06:41 PM

darnit
ok, I want to know what he said.
I wish I could speak/read spanish.

melev · 12/22/2006, 07:42 PM

Oh man, that is awesome. I know some Spanish so I have some idea of what was discussed, but it just made me want a wall of phytoplankton growing in my living room just for the mad scientist look.

I'll see if I can round up a spanish speaking TRC member to translate.

saltwaterfishlover · 12/23/2006, 08:55 AM

Google translation

Hello to all I do not express myself well in English, but I include/understand what it is written. Agradeceria that somebody traduciera my writing. I show images to you of my visit a company for the industrial production of phytoplankton, located in Cadiz (Spain) The production begins with selecionadas stocks of the species that is going away to cultivate. In this tactical mission one is gaditana Nannochloropsis. In this photo podeis to see the inÃ³culos for the culture

These cylinders are inoculated with the stocks. Podeis to observe clear the green color that it indicates a low concentration of phytoplankton

After 7 days approximately, they arrive at its Maxima concentration. The dark green color of the cylinders is appraised clearly.

With the concentration cylinders to the maximum, the biorreactores of 6000 liters of capacity inoculate

One week later the culture is completed, and ready for its commercialization. I explain some details to you for the phytoplankton production, that are very interesting to be successful in the culture. The illumination of the culture is made with fluorescent tubes Sylvania Aquastar 10000 ÂºK. Fotoperiodo is of 24 h. The fertilizer is produced by them, on the basis of one formuacion type Average Walne. 1 mililiter daily of fertilizer for 1L is used. of culture. The cultures usually lose when arriving at their Maxima concentration. This is caused by the CO2, that causes a dramatic fall of the PH. For the sterilization of the containers, it is used a mixture of sodico hipoclorito and water (150 850 hipoclorito mililiter/mililiter of water). This mixture is let act during 24 h. Later it is rinsed with water They again fill to the containers with a hydrochlorate acid mixture of use domestic servant (100 acid mililiter 900 mililiter of water). This mixture of lets act during 6 h. in order to neutralize any rest of hipoclorito. One becomes to rinse with water, and he is already ready to be used. I show to photos of my biorreactor DIY for phytoplankton and rotifers to you. The shortest cylinders are for the rotifer culture, upper, for phytoplankton.

Merry Christmas

saltwaterfishlover · 12/23/2006, 08:57 AM

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

WaterKeeper · 12/28/2006, 01:45 PM

Well, I'm certainly glad to hear that Joan didn't have that setup in her kitchen.

syntax357 · 12/28/2006, 07:40 PM

Hello everyone! I just thought I would add my comments. melev
I use your website http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
to culture my phyto. I purchased a small bottle from ebay and I have had it growing since late summer. I had 1 bottle crash and that was my fault for not cleaning the bottle very well. I also use miracle grow in mine and have not had a problem yet. I am sorry that you are having trouble growing phyto, but you site has helped my so much and by the way I run my bubbles full open and still it gets dark green

melev · 12/28/2006, 10:01 PM

Syntax, when I started this thread, it was a long time ago. I've been growing it quite well for the past year now, as is listed on the page you linked. Thanks for taking the time to include your experience.

acroman · 01/02/2007, 01:53 PM

sorry to jump in late, but i use bleach to sterilize the water and container. i put 10 ml bleach in a 5 gallon carboy, and let it sit for 24 hours. then i add 2.5ml sodium thio and air to remove the chlorine. 24 hours later, i add the f/2 media and inoculate. as long as the air is filtered, and there is a plug to prevent bacteria/rotifers from entering the culture container, the culture should be able to be kept wihout crashing for months.

rayjay · 01/03/2007, 12:11 AM

I guess you could say my air is not filtered.

jpitts101 · 01/13/2007, 10:19 PM

what are the brown phyto's/phyto? i have some nano that has been going for a few months now and decided to try the DT's to try to get a different strain. well its brown, its not crashed its just a brown strain. anyone know what kind it is? i have continued to culture it and its doing great but i would like to know what strain it is? any help would be great, thanks in advance!

acroman · 01/13/2007, 11:17 PM

its prolly chaetoceros, but without looking at it under a scope, theres no way to tell for sure.

ShadowViper · 01/14/2007, 10:04 PM

Question?
Melev when you say your bubbling your phyto, from your site, is that with just standard air or CO2.
If anyone has any feedback with pro's/con's of CO2 vs just air bubbling please feel free to speak up.

melev · 01/14/2007, 10:06 PM

It is just air.

ShadowViper · 01/14/2007, 10:18 PM

Ty for a fast responce melev.

acroman · 01/14/2007, 10:19 PM

you only need CO2 if your culture is extremely dense, or the container is very large (commercial or research). otherwise plain air is much easier.

WaterKeeper · 01/15/2007, 07:01 PM

There is plenty of CO₂ in the air to provide the carbon that phytoplankton needs. Increasing the level may help some but I would doubt it provides major benefits.

jpitts101 · 01/15/2007, 07:41 PM

how fast can you split a culture? i've been going 10 days but it looks to be at its greenest at 5? im cultureing nannochlorpsis. thanks in advance

billsreef · 01/15/2007, 09:09 PM

You can usually split a culture around 5 days

melev · 01/16/2007, 12:05 AM

If you have a density meter (it is a measuring stick made of plastic the is graduated with centimeter markings, it should read 2cm. At that point, it is ready to split.

12/20/2006, 04:13 PM	#101
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	I have tried to start cultures from discs from FAF and failed each time, but left the bottles running and ended up with a green algae eventually starting, even though the disc was iso in one case. I bought some live nannochloropsis, used that as a starter, and the same thing happened with that starter as well. This live nanno I added an equal qty of sterilized water to and added the F2 and put it under lights. The culture faded and turned a little "whitish" and then started to green up again. It went very dark in color but the color has a blue tint to it, unlike the original nanno concentrate before and after dilution. This same blue tinted green algae is what has grown from the FAF discs I purchased, 1 nannochloropsis, 1 iso, and another motile one I forget the name of just at the moment. Whatever it is, it grows well, and I have many 26g Rubbermaid containers of it growing, each under a 75 watt GE spot light. Maybe someone knows what kind of algae is likely to grow in a container after the original culture crashes. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

12/22/2006, 10:56 AM	#103
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	All the culture discs I used from Florida Aqua Farms are sterile but it still didn't work for me. Also, your link doesn't work for me either. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

12/22/2006, 11:50 AM	#104
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	Seeing how phyto was spelt (fito) I assumed the URL was wrong, here's the right one: http://www.plankton-shop.de/ __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

12/23/2006, 08:57 AM	#110
saltwaterfishlover Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,983	http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en __________________ {andy} saltwater since 1982..its such a love hate relationship

12/28/2006, 01:45 PM	#111
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Well, I'm certainly glad to hear that Joan didn't have that setup in her kitchen. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

12/21/2006, 06:49 PM	#102
miska Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Budapest Posts: 15	There is a metod to sterilise the fito from bacteria and ciliates: double the sea salt for 2 days than dilute to the normal level and keep sterile .this is described at : www.plancton-shop.de

12/22/2006, 01:47 PM	#105
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	For our german friends...http://www.plankton-shop.de/assets/o...ranleitung.pdf

12/22/2006, 06:08 PM	#106
joanxavier Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Barcelona Posts: 14	Hola a todos No me expreso bien en inglÃ©s, pero si comprendo lo que se escribe. Agradeceria que alguien traduciera mi escrito. Os muestro unas imagenes de mi visita a una empresa para la producciÃ³n industrial de fitoplancton, situada en Cadiz (EspaÃ±a) La producciÃ³n empieza con unas cepas selecionadas de la especie que se va a cultivar. En este caso concreto se trata de Nannochloropsis gaditana. En esta foto podeis ver los inÃ³culos para el cultivo Estos cilindros son inoculados con las cepas. Podeis observar el color verde claro que indica una baja concentraciÃ³n de fitoplancton DespuÃ©s de 7 dias aproximadamente, llegan a su mÃ¡xima concentraciÃ³n. Se aprecia claramente el color verde oscuro de los cilindros. Con los cilindros al mÃ¡ximo de concentraciÃ³n, se inoculan los biorreactores de 6000 litros de capacidad Una semana mÃ¡s tarde el cultivo estÃ¡ completado, y listo para su comercializaciÃ³n. Os explico algunos detalles para la producciÃ³n de fitoplancton, que son muy interesantes para tener exito en el cultivo. La iluminaciÃ³n del cultivo se realiza con tubos fluorescentes Sylvania Aquastar 10000 ÂºK. El fotoperiodo es de 24 h. El fertilizante es producido por ellos, en base a una formuacion tipo Medio Walne. Se utiliza 1 ml. diario de fertilizante para 1L. de cultivo. Los cultivos se suelen perder al llegar a su mÃ¡xima concentraciÃ³n. Esto es provocado por el Co2, que causa una dramatica caida del PH. Para la esterilizaciÃ³n de los recipientes, se utiliza una mezcla de hipoclorito sodico y agua (150 ml hipoclorito / 850 ml. de agua). Esta mezcla se deja actuar durante 24 h. Despues se enjuaga con agua Se llenan otra vez los recipientes con una mezcla de acido clorhidrico de uso domestico (100 ml acido/ 900 ml de agua). Esta mezcla de deja actuar durante 6 h. para neutralizar cualquier resto de hipoclorito. Se vuelve a enjuagar con agua, y ya estÃ¡ listo para ser usado. Os muestro unas fotos de mi biorreactor DIY para fitoplancton y rotÃferos. Los cilindros mÃ¡s cortos son para el cultivo de rotÃfero, el mÃ¡s alto, para fitoplancton. Feliz Navidad

12/22/2006, 06:41 PM	#107
antonsemrad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Little Chute WI Posts: 436	darnit ok, I want to know what he said. I wish I could speak/read spanish.

12/22/2006, 07:42 PM	#108
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Oh man, that is awesome. I know some Spanish so I have some idea of what was discussed, but it just made me want a wall of phytoplankton growing in my living room just for the mad scientist look. I'll see if I can round up a spanish speaking TRC member to translate.

12/23/2006, 08:55 AM	#109
saltwaterfishlover Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,983	Google translation Hello to all I do not express myself well in English, but I include/understand what it is written. Agradeceria that somebody traduciera my writing. I show images to you of my visit a company for the industrial production of phytoplankton, located in Cadiz (Spain) The production begins with selecionadas stocks of the species that is going away to cultivate. In this tactical mission one is gaditana Nannochloropsis. In this photo podeis to see the inÃ³culos for the culture These cylinders are inoculated with the stocks. Podeis to observe clear the green color that it indicates a low concentration of phytoplankton After 7 days approximately, they arrive at its Maxima concentration. The dark green color of the cylinders is appraised clearly. With the concentration cylinders to the maximum, the biorreactores of 6000 liters of capacity inoculate One week later the culture is completed, and ready for its commercialization. I explain some details to you for the phytoplankton production, that are very interesting to be successful in the culture. The illumination of the culture is made with fluorescent tubes Sylvania Aquastar 10000 ÂºK. Fotoperiodo is of 24 h. The fertilizer is produced by them, on the basis of one formuacion type Average Walne. 1 mililiter daily of fertilizer for 1L is used. of culture. The cultures usually lose when arriving at their Maxima concentration. This is caused by the CO2, that causes a dramatic fall of the PH. For the sterilization of the containers, it is used a mixture of sodico hipoclorito and water (150 850 hipoclorito mililiter/mililiter of water). This mixture is let act during 24 h. Later it is rinsed with water They again fill to the containers with a hydrochlorate acid mixture of use domestic servant (100 acid mililiter 900 mililiter of water). This mixture of lets act during 6 h. in order to neutralize any rest of hipoclorito. One becomes to rinse with water, and he is already ready to be used. I show to photos of my biorreactor DIY for phytoplankton and rotifers to you. The shortest cylinders are for the rotifer culture, upper, for phytoplankton. Merry Christmas

12/28/2006, 07:40 PM	#112
syntax357 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 312	Hello everyone! I just thought I would add my comments. melev I use your website http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html to culture my phyto. I purchased a small bottle from ebay and I have had it growing since late summer. I had 1 bottle crash and that was my fault for not cleaning the bottle very well. I also use miracle grow in mine and have not had a problem yet. I am sorry that you are having trouble growing phyto, but you site has helped my so much and by the way I run my bubbles full open and still it gets dark green

12/28/2006, 10:01 PM	#113
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Syntax, when I started this thread, it was a long time ago. I've been growing it quite well for the past year now, as is listed on the page you linked. Thanks for taking the time to include your experience.

01/02/2007, 01:53 PM	#114
acroman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 152	sorry to jump in late, but i use bleach to sterilize the water and container. i put 10 ml bleach in a 5 gallon carboy, and let it sit for 24 hours. then i add 2.5ml sodium thio and air to remove the chlorine. 24 hours later, i add the f/2 media and inoculate. as long as the air is filtered, and there is a plug to prevent bacteria/rotifers from entering the culture container, the culture should be able to be kept wihout crashing for months.

01/03/2007, 12:11 AM	#115
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	I guess you could say my air is not filtered. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

01/13/2007, 10:19 PM	#116
jpitts101 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ardmore Posts: 1,176	what are the brown phyto's/phyto? i have some nano that has been going for a few months now and decided to try the DT's to try to get a different strain. well its brown, its not crashed its just a brown strain. anyone know what kind it is? i have continued to culture it and its doing great but i would like to know what strain it is? any help would be great, thanks in advance! __________________ J.D. Pitts when in doubt pull it out!!!! Current Tank Info: 180 sps dominant

01/13/2007, 11:17 PM	#117
acroman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 152	its prolly chaetoceros, but without looking at it under a scope, theres no way to tell for sure.

01/14/2007, 10:04 PM	#118
ShadowViper Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Posts: 382	Question? Melev when you say your bubbling your phyto, from your site, is that with just standard air or CO2. If anyone has any feedback with pro's/con's of CO2 vs just air bubbling please feel free to speak up.

01/14/2007, 10:06 PM	#119
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It is just air.

01/14/2007, 10:18 PM	#120
ShadowViper Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Posts: 382	Ty for a fast responce melev.

01/14/2007, 10:19 PM	#121
acroman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 152	you only need CO2 if your culture is extremely dense, or the container is very large (commercial or research). otherwise plain air is much easier.

01/15/2007, 07:01 PM	#122
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	There is plenty of CO₂ in the air to provide the carbon that phytoplankton needs. Increasing the level may help some but I would doubt it provides major benefits. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

01/15/2007, 07:41 PM	#123
jpitts101 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ardmore Posts: 1,176	how fast can you split a culture? i've been going 10 days but it looks to be at its greenest at 5? im cultureing nannochlorpsis. thanks in advance __________________ J.D. Pitts when in doubt pull it out!!!! Current Tank Info: 180 sps dominant

01/15/2007, 09:09 PM	#124
billsreef Moderator 10 & Over Club Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY/North Miami Posts: 36,538	You can usually split a culture around 5 days __________________ Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL.

01/16/2007, 12:05 AM	#125
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	If you have a density meter (it is a measuring stick made of plastic the is graduated with centimeter markings, it should read 2cm. At that point, it is ready to split.